View Poll Results: Should the Michelle Jones character be brought into Marvel Comics?

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  • Supporting character for Peter Parker

    11 24.44%
  • Supporting character for Miles Morales

    18 40.00%
  • Supporting character for Ben Reilly

    8 17.78%
  • Supporting character for Gwen Stacy

    8 17.78%
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  1. #166
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Honestly, I could see them just casting a Black actress to play Mary Jane (and being completely upfront about it) in whatever the next set of Peter Parker led Spider-Man movies looks like instead of the confusing mess they made of things here.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Honestly, I could see them just casting a Black actress to play Mary Jane (and being completely upfront about it) in whatever the next set of Peter Parker led Spider-Man movies looks like instead of the confusing mess they made of things here.
    I could see that as well, IF and this is a big IF, they think it makes economic sense. The problem is this. Mary Jane is known for her red hair and that is something very different then Nick Fury or Valkyrie. It would work about as well as James Bond as a Frenchman or Sherlock Holmes as an American. The easiest solution is this: Peter with MJ in 616 and Michelle with Miles or Miguel in MCU. Although I suspect that is what we will NOT get post ASM 1000 ( especially because Marvel loves Peter in High School and they look for any excuse to do that).

  3. #168
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I could see that as well, IF and this is a big IF, they think it makes economic sense. The problem is this. Mary Jane is known for her red hair and that is something very different then Nick Fury or Valkyrie. It would work about as well as James Bond as a Frenchman or Sherlock Holmes as an American. The easiest solution is this: Peter with MJ in 616 and Michelle with Miles or Miguel in MCU. Although I suspect that is what we will NOT get post ASM 1000 ( especially because Marvel loves Peter in High School and they look for any excuse to do that).
    It's not like changing a character's race in an adaptation is a new concept. It'll be fine.

  4. #169
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Renee Montoya. They did eventually make her the new Question, but only 15 years after her introduction in the comics.

    Michelle Jones is a bigger presence in the Spider-Man movies than Renee Montoya ever was in Batman: The Animated Series.

    If Michelle doesn't work out in the comics, then she doesn't work out. There's nothing to lose.
    I'm telling you right now that trying to introduce a new love interest for Peter in the comics is not going to work out. We literally just saw that during Brand New Day.

  5. #170
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    The argument presented here is that introducing Michelle Jones in the comics would downgrade the movie version to "not the REAL MJ". Basically, that introducing a comic equivalent would damage the perception of the movie version.

    I've not seen anyone complain that introducing Nick Fury Jr in the comics damaged the perception of the movie version played by Samuel L Jackson.

    What you're talking about is people who think movie influence on the comics damaged the original comic character. That's the opposite.
    A Nick Fury based on Sam Jackson already existed in the Ultimate Marvel Universe long before Sam Jackson actually took on the role himself in the films. But Nick Fury Jr. hasn't exactly set the sales charts on fire, despite the popularity of Sam Jackson, and even the popularity of Ultimate Fury.

    The entire point of the reveal at the end of Homecoming is Zendaya is "MJ" and you absolutely ruin that if you later say "but she wasn't the REAL MJ".

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    It's not like changing a character's race in an adaptation is a new concept. It'll be fine.
    If they want Peter to date someone of a different race there are alternatives to changing Mary Jane. Who? Glory Grant. Michelle Gonzalez ( despite NOT being popular with most readers ( although an adult MCU Peter paired up with Ana de Armas or better yet, Eiza Gonzalez could work)) or as much as I detest her, Cindy Moon and that is simply three examples. Of course, I want the redhead and only the redhead but that is me:
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 12-08-2021 at 06:28 AM.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    If they want Peter to date someone of a different race there are alternatives to changing Mary Jane. Who? Glory Grant. Michelle Gonzalez ( despite NOT being popular with most readers ( although an adult MCU Peter paired up with Ana de Armas or better yet, Eiza Gonzalez could work)) or as much as I detest her, Cindy Moon and that is simply three examples. Of course, I want the redhead and only the redhead but that is me:
    The thing is that Peter x MJ are SO famous that no other possible pairing will be taken seriously.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The thing is that Peter x MJ are SO famous that no other possible pairing will be taken seriously.
    I happen to agree with you ( as do most Amazing readers) but Marvel does not. How do I know? OMD remains. So I can easily see them doing some BS like paring him with one of the three ladies I mentioned as part of an overall switch to one universe: MCU ( using “Diversity” as the reason why (opposed to real reasons of keeping Peter juvenile and to a lesser extent away from Mary Jane).

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    It's not like changing a character's race in an adaptation is a new concept. It'll be fine.
    It may not be a 'new concept' but it certainly is a contentious one.

    Most of the 'non-controversial' instances of race-bending are those of minor or secondary characters where either the skill or fame of the actor outweighs any objections and/or the change flies under the radar and doesn't become a 'political' or 'social' issue. The ones that readily come to mind are MCU Nick Fury, Jim Gordon in the upcoming Batman movie, DCEU Perry White, Electro in TASM2, Miss Moneypenny in the Craig-era Bond movies etc.

    I'm pretty sure explicitly race-bending Mary Jane is going to attract way too much heat...way more than Marvel would be willing to handle. Apart from out and out racists who will attack the actress who is cast (which IMO is utterly condemnable but sadly almost certainly inevitable), you will have comic-book purists, people opposed to the 'woke' notion of race-bending characters for diversity, and people who simply have a predefined vision of what MJ is supposed to look like who will oppose the change, rightly or wrongly. Short of race-bending Peter Parker himself, race-bending MJ will be the biggest powder-keg in the Spider-Man franchise.

    Michelle Jones has actually been a neat way for Marvel to avoid controversy. They get to create a new character who pretty much fills the role of 'MJ' in this version of the Spider-Man mythos, while not literally being Mary Jane.

  10. #175
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    It may not be a 'new concept' but it certainly is a contentious one.

    Most of the 'non-controversial' instances of race-bending are those of minor or secondary characters where either the skill or fame of the actor outweighs any objections and/or the change flies under the radar and doesn't become a 'political' or 'social' issue. The ones that readily come to mind are MCU Nick Fury, Jim Gordon in the upcoming Batman movie, DCEU Perry White, Electro in TASM2, Miss Moneypenny in the Craig-era Bond movies etc.
    Or the Kingpin being played by Michael Clarke Duncan. It was just... there. The people who made the film just... cast someone who looked different from the previous depiction. Although in the case of Kingpin it's arguable that they might have done so because of the difficulty of finding someone the right size for the role.
    I'm pretty sure explicitly race-bending Mary Jane is going to attract way too much heat...way more than Marvel would be willing to handle. Apart from out and out racists who will attack the actress who is cast (which IMO is utterly condemnable but sadly almost certainly inevitable), you will have comic-book purists, people opposed to the 'woke' notion of race-bending characters for diversity, and people who simply have a predefined vision of what MJ is supposed to look like who will oppose the change, rightly or wrongly. Short of race-bending Peter Parker himself, race-bending MJ will be the biggest powder-keg in the Spider-Man franchise.

    Michelle Jones has actually been a neat way for Marvel to avoid controversy. They get to create a new character who pretty much fills the role of 'MJ' in this version of the Spider-Man mythos, while not literally being Mary Jane.
    Yeah, there's the argument of "why redefine who/what the character is instead of making a new character?" Which is where Michelle comes in. Definitely a new character.
    EDI: oh yeah... MCU Nick Fury isn't technically race-bending. in-universe he's the son of the other one.
    Last edited by marhawkman; 12-08-2021 at 09:56 AM.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    It may not be a 'new concept' but it certainly is a contentious one.

    Most of the 'non-controversial' instances of race-bending are those of minor or secondary characters where either the skill or fame of the actor outweighs any objections and/or the change flies under the radar and doesn't become a 'political' or 'social' issue. The ones that readily come to mind are MCU Nick Fury, Jim Gordon in the upcoming Batman movie, DCEU Perry White, Electro in TASM2, Miss Moneypenny in the Craig-era Bond movies etc.

    I'm pretty sure explicitly race-bending Mary Jane is going to attract way too much heat...way more than Marvel would be willing to handle. Apart from out and out racists who will attack the actress who is cast (which IMO is utterly condemnable but sadly almost certainly inevitable), you will have comic-book purists, people opposed to the 'woke' notion of race-bending characters for diversity, and people who simply have a predefined vision of what MJ is supposed to look like who will oppose the change, rightly or wrongly. Short of race-bending Peter Parker himself, race-bending MJ will be the biggest powder-keg in the Spider-Man franchise.

    Michelle Jones has actually been a neat way for Marvel to avoid controversy. They get to create a new character who pretty much fills the role of 'MJ' in this version of the Spider-Man mythos, while not literally being Mary Jane.
    I am someone who is 100% against changing MJ ( race based or giving her superpowers), but I suspect that if Marvel tried to do so they could get away with it. How do I know? DC made Superman bisexual ( and got rid of “Truth, Justice and The American Way”) and that made the news for one day. Marvel did the same for Felicia and nothing happened. Where the anger happens is over stuff out of left field like Hydra Cap and OMD.

  12. #177
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    It may not be a 'new concept' but it certainly is a contentious one.

    Most of the 'non-controversial' instances of race-bending are those of minor or secondary characters where either the skill or fame of the actor outweighs any objections and/or the change flies under the radar and doesn't become a 'political' or 'social' issue. The ones that readily come to mind are MCU Nick Fury, Jim Gordon in the upcoming Batman movie, DCEU Perry White, Electro in TASM2, Miss Moneypenny in the Craig-era Bond movies etc.

    I'm pretty sure explicitly race-bending Mary Jane is going to attract way too much heat...way more than Marvel would be willing to handle. Apart from out and out racists who will attack the actress who is cast (which IMO is utterly condemnable but sadly almost certainly inevitable), you will have comic-book purists, people opposed to the 'woke' notion of race-bending characters for diversity, and people who simply have a predefined vision of what MJ is supposed to look like who will oppose the change, rightly or wrongly. Short of race-bending Peter Parker himself, race-bending MJ will be the biggest powder-keg in the Spider-Man franchise.

    Michelle Jones has actually been a neat way for Marvel to avoid controversy. They get to create a new character who pretty much fills the role of 'MJ' in this version of the Spider-Man mythos, while not literally being Mary Jane.
    I actually think Marvel was cowardly with their "Michelle is MJ" thing they did. If there's any supporting character that you could make a statement about race bending with, it is the character who was originally designed to symbolize beauty (Mary Jane was designed after Ann-Margaret for her role in the film "Bye Bye Birdie", as she was considered beautiful at the time Romita designed her. Race-bending her means Marvel is making a statement, but that statement is muddled by their handling of the situation).

    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I happen to agree with you ( as do most Amazing readers) but Marvel does not. How do I know? OMD remains. So I can easily see them doing some BS like paring him with one of the three ladies I mentioned as part of an overall switch to one universe: MCU ( using “Diversity” as the reason why (opposed to real reasons of keeping Peter juvenile and to a lesser extent away from Mary Jane).
    Please do not treat "Diversity" as a negative force.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I actually think Marvel was cowardly with their "Michelle is MJ" thing they did. If there's any supporting character that you could make a statement about race bending with, it is the character who was originally designed to symbolize beauty (Mary Jane was designed after Ann-Margaret for her role in the film "Bye Bye Birdie", as she was considered beautiful at the time Romita designed her. Race-bending her means Marvel is making a statement, but that statement is muddled by their handling of the situation).



    Please do not treat "Diversity" as a negative force.
    It can ( like almost anything else) be negative if it is used as an excuse to do something not good. In this case using “Diversity” to be the latest excuse to remove Mary Jane from the book. Marvel is very capable of doing BS like that ( see the no baby rationale for OMD as one outrageous example of this).

  14. #179
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    It can ( like almost anything else) be negative if it is used as an excuse to do something not good. In this case using “Diversity” to be the latest excuse to remove Mary Jane from the book. Marvel is very capable of doing BS like that ( see the no baby rationale for OMD as one outrageous example of this).
    Agree. It's A reason to make choices when planning stories, but shouldn't be THE reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I am someone who is 100% against changing MJ ( race based or giving her superpowers), but I suspect that if Marvel tried to do so they could get away with it. How do I know? DC made Superman bisexual ( and got rid of “Truth, Justice and The American Way”) and that made the news for one day. Marvel did the same for Felicia and nothing happened. Where the anger happens is over stuff out of left field like Hydra Cap and OMD.
    Technically the Superman one is Kal-El's SON, not Kal-El himself.

    Also MJ with Superpowers has happened at least 4 times in four different continuities. Spider-Man:TAS had a clone of MJ with Hydroman's powers. There was a story where MJ got temporarily possessed by the spirit of Red Sonja. At least one with a Symbiote. Also an alt future where she somehow has spider-powers.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Also MJ with Superpowers has happened at least 4 times in four different continuities. Spider-Man:TAS had a clone of MJ with Hydroman's powers. There was a story where MJ got temporarily possessed by the spirit of Red Sonja. At least one with a Symbiote. Also an alt future where she somehow has spider-powers.
    The most major one of those is clone MJ (And she dies soon after finding out she's a clone anyways lol), Red Sonja's spirit was temporary and was just an excuse for Spidey to team up with her, and whatever ones that happen on 616 where she gets actual powers (Like Spider-Island), they're temporary.

    Random alternate universes are whatever too, we have an universe where Emma Frost becomes Galactus in Zdarsky's Marvel Two-in-One, and that one won't be used as an excuse for her to go cosmic lol.

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