View Poll Results: Should the Michelle Jones character be brought into Marvel Comics?

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  • Supporting character for Peter Parker

    11 24.44%
  • Supporting character for Miles Morales

    18 40.00%
  • Supporting character for Ben Reilly

    8 17.78%
  • Supporting character for Gwen Stacy

    8 17.78%
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  1. #106
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    What role do you think the new supporting character should have in a nearly 60 year old franchise?



    What role do you think a new supporting character should have?
    New stories allow for new characters. As technology and society change, there's immediately room for new characters to fill new roles. Journalism and media are different now than in the 90s, so a story about Peter at the Bugle or MJ doing a TV show allows for characters whose jobs didn't exist thirty years ago.

    When the main characters have new developments, that also creates room for new characters. If Peter & MJ had a kid (or suddenly reunited with a three-year old Baby May) it would be logical to introduce babysitters or other young parents who could be part of their social circle.

    There are stories that could've been done before given the backgrounds of the characters, but just haven't been explored yet. How often do we see MJ's directors, or Daily Bugle foreign correspondents?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Nobody would care if they tried to insert Zendaya's MJ into the comics. Nobody cares when they take characters created for the movies and shows and put them in the comics. We saw what happened to Coulson when they added him to the comics.

    Her particular role is awkward first love, which is kind of hard to add to Spider-Man at this point outside of major retconning or a new continuity or a reboot.
    You may have an exaggerated sense of the effects of a supporting character.

    Coulson being in the comics doesn't mean he'll be as popular as Deadpool.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 12-04-2021 at 06:28 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  2. #107
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    New stories allow for new characters. As technology and society change, there's immediately room for new characters to fill new roles. Journalism and media are different now than in the 90s, so a story about Peter at the Bugle or MJ doing a TV show allows for characters whose jobs didn't exist thirty years ago.

    When the main characters have new developments, that also creates room for new characters. If Peter & MJ had a kid (or suddenly reunited with a three-year old Baby May) it would be logical to introduce babysitters or other young parents who could be part of their social circle.

    There are stories that could've been done before given the backgrounds of the characters, but just haven't been explored yet. How often do we see MJ's directors, or Daily Bugle foreign correspondents?


    You may have an exaggerated sense of the effects of a supporting character.

    Coulson being in the comics doesn't mean he'll be as popular as Deadpool.
    I don't think it's a matter of not needing new Supporting Characters but whether there's a point to introducing what is, effectively, a stand-in character in the comics.

  3. #108
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    New stories allow for new characters. As technology and society change, there's immediately room for new characters to fill new roles. Journalism and media are different now than in the 90s, so a story about Peter at the Bugle or MJ doing a TV show allows for characters whose jobs didn't exist thirty years ago.

    When the main characters have new developments, that also creates room for new characters. If Peter & MJ had a kid (or suddenly reunited with a three-year old Baby May) it would be logical to introduce babysitters or other young parents who could be part of their social circle.

    There are stories that could've been done before given the backgrounds of the characters, but just haven't been explored yet. How often do we see MJ's directors, or Daily Bugle foreign correspondents?


    You may have an exaggerated sense of the effects of a supporting character.

    Coulson being in the comics doesn't mean he'll be as popular as Deadpool.
    This thread is about if they should disassociate a movie's obvious stand-in character to take up a role as a supporting character in comics continuity. So, again, I ask: Why?

  4. #109
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    This thread is about if they should disassociate a movie's obvious stand-in character to take up a role as a supporting character in comics continuity. So, again, I ask: Why?
    I've answered that one.

    She could be a new love interest, or an artistic collaborator for the original Mary Jane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think it's a matter of not needing new Supporting Characters but whether there's a point to introducing what is, effectively, a stand-in character in the comics.
    I think the Zendaya MJ and comics MJ are different characters.

    The Zendaya MJ shows that there's a dynamic that works with Spider-Man that hasn't been pulled off in the 616 comics.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  5. #110
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I've answered that one.

    She could be a new love interest, or an artistic collaborator for the original Mary Jane.

    I think the Zendaya MJ and comics MJ are different characters.

    The Zendaya MJ shows that there's a dynamic that works with Spider-Man that hasn't been pulled off in the 616 comics.
    I mean, there are personality and character differences but she's effectively meant to be a stand-in for Mary Jane in the comics.

    Isn't that just riffing on Ultimate Mary Jane?

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I've answered that one.

    She could be a new love interest, or an artistic collaborator for the original Mary Jane.

    I think the Zendaya MJ and comics MJ are different characters.

    The Zendaya MJ shows that there's a dynamic that works with Spider-Man that hasn't been pulled off in the 616 comics.
    The whole point is she is meant to be a new take on MJ. So if you try to disassociate her from that, you end up creating some real unfortunate implications that basically say "Zendaya isn't playing the REAL MJ", which is not a message that Marvel would want to send.

    Is that worth it so Peter can go on a date with a new temporary love interest when some future writer splits up Peter and Mary Jane for a period of time before they inevitably get back together?
    Last edited by Kevinroc; 12-04-2021 at 07:22 PM.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This just feels like a weird conversation to be having for a character that is effectively a stand-in for an already established character because of the studios' shoddy execution and lack of commitment.
    That's a tautological argument, so I don't think it has that much weight.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    That's a tautological argument, so I don't think it has that much weight.
    Part of Homecoming's ending is Zendaya's character saying her nickname is "MJ", which is a nickname that carries a lot of weight in the Spider-Man franchise.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    What role do you think a new supporting character should have?
    That's not relevant to what I asked you.

    Earlier you said:

    "Would Marvel rather put resources into trying to create a new supporting character for Spider-Man? Or would they rather put resources to create a new hero that could be marketed and sold to appeal to the public at large?"

    What resources are you referring to?

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    That's not relevant to what I asked you.

    Earlier you said:

    "Would Marvel rather put resources into trying to create a new supporting character for Spider-Man? Or would they rather put resources to create a new hero that could be marketed and sold to appeal to the public at large?"

    What resources are you referring to?
    It depends on what role you think the character should have.

    If you want them to be a love interest to supplant MJ, well, you do actually have to put resources into marketing this character as such. We're talking films, animated series, video game appearances, toys, etc.

    You would actually have to put resources into marketing the character as Peter's One True Love. You can't just draw up a new character, say "this is THE love interest for the franchise now," and leave it at that. We saw what happened with Carlie Cooper and all of the other BND potential love interests.

    Again, Peter x MJ is SO famous that Marvel went out of their way to try to surprise people with the casting of Zendaya, and then to reveal during Homecoming's climax that her character was MJ.

    I just don't think they'll do this for a supporting character at this point.
    Last edited by Kevinroc; 12-05-2021 at 04:29 AM.

  11. #116
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    It depends on what role you think the character should have.

    If you want them to be a love interest to supplant MJ, well, you do actually have to put resources into marketing this character as such. We're talking films, animated series, video game appearances, toys, etc.

    You would actually have to put resources into marketing the character as Peter's One True Love. You can't just draw up a new character, say "this is THE love interest for the franchise now," and leave it at that. We saw what happened with Carlie Cooper and all of the other BND potential love interests.

    Again, Peter x MJ is SO famous that Marvel went out of their way to try to surprise people with the casting of Zendaya, and then to reveal during Homecoming's climax that her character was MJ.

    I just don't think they'll do this for a supporting character at this point.
    This discussion is mainly about the comics. Films, animated series, and video game appearances are a different thing.

    The main focus is just on getting the comics to be good.

    Regarding Carlie Cooper, she didn't bring anything that compelling in the long term to the comics. She wouldn't be popular if there was a coordinated effort to raise her profile in video games and cartoons.

    It also takes years to prepare video games and films, so it would be a bad idea to insist that the people working on those projects match what's going on in the comics. The comics don't make Marvel as much money, and an advantage with comics is that it's easier to change course.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The whole point is she is meant to be a new take on MJ. So if you try to disassociate her from that, you end up creating some real unfortunate implications that basically say "Zendaya isn't playing the REAL MJ", which is not a message that Marvel would want to send.

    Is that worth it so Peter can go on a date with a new temporary love interest when some future writer splits up Peter and Mary Jane for a period of time before they inevitably get back together?
    There are bigger priorities than the implications of the comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, there are personality and character differences but she's effectively meant to be a stand-in for Mary Jane in the comics.

    Isn't that just riffing on Ultimate Mary Jane?
    She's a bit similar to Ultimate MJ, but Ultimate MJ was quite different from the MJ of the 616 comics.

    Let's consider what made 616 Mary Jane unique as a comic book character.

    She's a performer. She wants to be famous. She appears superficial, but she has hidden depths. A big part of her character is that she comes from a broken home (her father is scum, her mother is dead, her sister depended on a teenager for help, and she lives with her aunt.)

    That's not Ultimate MJ, and it's not Zendaya's MJ. Those are different characters who worked pretty well in their universes.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  13. #118
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    There are bigger priorities than the implications of the comics.

    She's a bit similar to Ultimate MJ, but Ultimate MJ was quite different from the MJ of the 616 comics.

    Let's consider what made 616 Mary Jane unique as a comic book character.

    She's a performer. She wants to be famous. She appears superficial, but she has hidden depths. A big part of her character is that she comes from a broken home (her father is scum, her mother is dead, her sister depended on a teenager for help, and she lives with her aunt.)

    That's not Ultimate MJ, and it's not Zendaya's MJ. Those are different characters who worked pretty well in their universes.
    Yeah, but the MCU alters character personalities to fit the story and sometimes the actor. Thor is not at all like how Hemsworth portrays him in later movies, but that's how they're portraying him. He's still supposed to be Thor though.

    Like, how does that track with "Ned" who is basically Ganke in all but name and only has in common dating Betty Brant with the actual Ned Leeds?

    Even I wish she was more like 616 Mary Jane but her coolness and antisocial personality is supposed to be the superficial part of her personality like comic MJ's comic persona. We don't know anything about her family life because she's barely been developed.

    The intention of the character is what matters and she's fully intended to be a version of Mary Jane Watson.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    It depends on what role you think the character should have.

    If you want them to be a love interest to supplant MJ, well, you do actually have to put resources into marketing this character as such. We're talking films, animated series, video game appearances, toys, etc.

    You would actually have to put resources into marketing the character as Peter's One True Love. You can't just draw up a new character, say "this is THE love interest for the franchise now," and leave it at that. We saw what happened with Carlie Cooper and all of the other BND potential love interests.

    Again, Peter x MJ is SO famous that Marvel went out of their way to try to surprise people with the casting of Zendaya, and then to reveal during Homecoming's climax that her character was MJ.

    I just don't think they'll do this for a supporting character at this point.
    Who said anything about supplanting Mary Jane?

    Supporting characters can be added to a comic without any marketing. They either take off or they don't. I can't think of a single Spider-Man supporting cast member that was given a big marketing push at the point of introduction.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Who said anything about supplanting Mary Jane?

    Supporting characters can be added to a comic without any marketing. They either take off or they don't. I can't think of a single Spider-Man supporting cast member that was given a big marketing push at the point of introduction.
    You asked.

    So what purpose would a "Michelle" serve as a comic character?

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