View Poll Results: Should the Michelle Jones character be brought into Marvel Comics?

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  • Supporting character for Peter Parker

    11 24.44%
  • Supporting character for Miles Morales

    18 40.00%
  • Supporting character for Ben Reilly

    8 17.78%
  • Supporting character for Gwen Stacy

    8 17.78%
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  1. #151
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    What are you talking about? Feige suggested they might end up dating, and they did.

    Feige: She's not Mary-Jane Watson. Is she going to date Peter? Are they going to fall in love? She seems to be intrigued with him. There's a nice chemistry there. Who knows what will happen in the future films?
    Yes, I understand that Feige still wanted to keep the mystery going into Far From Home. But they knew full well that she and Peter would end up romantically involved.

    You're the only one who keeps bringing up the idea of her "forever supplanting Mary Jane". All anyone else is saying is that she's a fun character who could be introduced into the comics. Nobody's saying that they should get married and Mary Jane should be killed off. She either takes off or she doesn't. Or she's popular for a while and then she isn't. There's nothing to lose.

    You just seem to be worried that Peter will get a new girlfriend who isn't Mary Jane. I think that worry is a poor reason to keep a popular character out of the comics.
    Most people take her as "MCU MJ", which you lose if you separate the character and try to make her into her own character independent of Mary Jane. She is MJ, the MCU version of MJ, for all intents and purposes. If people want to see more of her, I'm sure she'll pop up in the Freshman Year cartoon that is being created for D+ (where she may or may not be voiced by Zendaya).

    Then the question of "why wasn't Zendaya playing the REAL MJ?" will be asked over and over again.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Yes, I understand that Feige still wanted to keep the mystery going into Far From Home. But they knew full well that she and Peter would end up romantically involved.



    Most people take her as "MCU MJ", which you lose if you separate the character and try to make her into her own character independent of Mary Jane. She is MJ, the MCU version of MJ, for all intents and purposes. If people want to see more of her, I'm sure she'll pop up in the Freshman Year cartoon that is being created for D+ (where she may or may not be voiced by Zendaya).

    Then the question of "why wasn't Zendaya playing the REAL MJ?" will be asked over and over again.
    That is actually easy. Mary Jane as anything but a redhead works as well as Marilyn Monroe as a redhead. It would not be popular

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Think about what Marvel did with the Ultimate Universe and DC did with Earth 2? More recently with spoilers:
    James Bond.
    end of spoilers spoilers:
    He was killed off but will return. Erasing that universe.
    end of spoilers They could easily finish the Peter/Mary Jane saga in Amazing 1000, and after that eliminate 616 and reboot Peter straight back to HS in MCU comics starting with the “New” Amazing 1
    If they did a reboot of the Marvel comics universe then it wouldn't be in continuity with the movies. If it was, then they wouldn't be able to re-introduce classic villains, because the movies would have first dibs on them. They wouldn't be able to do any soap opera with the existing characters, lest they contradict upcoming movies. Anything they did do in the comics wouldn't be referenced in the movies/TV shows, because only a tiny fraction of the audience will have read them. It's not going to happen. It would be a logistical nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Spider-Man has a very large supporting cast. In fact along with Batman the largest in comics. It is also diverse. The Robertson family to start with.
    They should always be adding new characters to the supporting cast and keeping the soap opera fresh. Especially characters that aren't super heroes or super villains. Who are Peter's friends these days? His neighbors? His rivals? His classmates? His co-workers? There's room for more characters, more stories, especially as some of the most famous characters (Gwen, Harry, Flash) have been written out of the series.

    As for Batman, his civilian supporting cast is practically non-existent these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Most people take her as "MCU MJ", which you lose if you separate the character and try to make her into her own character independent of Mary Jane. She is MJ, the MCU version of MJ, for all intents and purposes. If people want to see more of her, I'm sure she'll pop up in the Freshman Year cartoon that is being created for D+ (where she may or may not be voiced by Zendaya).

    Then the question of "why wasn't Zendaya playing the REAL MJ?" will be asked over and over again.
    They might take issue if Marvel introduced a white Mary Jane Watson into the MCU. I don't think they'd take that same issue if Michelle Jones was introduced in the comics. Nobody made that complaint about Samuel L Jackson's Nick Fury or Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie when the comics introduced new versions to reflect the movies.

    The situation sucks. Young girls who identified with Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane Watson got Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, the Mary Jane novels and Ultimate Spider-Man as their gateway into the publishing side of Marvel, featuring a recognisable version of that character. If they then moved onto the main series comics of that era, that Mary Jane wasn't too many steps removed.

    Young girls who identify with Zendaya's Michelle Jones/MJ get nothing.
    Last edited by Lee; 12-07-2021 at 01:04 PM.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    If they did a reboot of the Marvel comics universe then it wouldn't be in continuity with the movies. If it was, then they wouldn't be able to re-introduce classic villains, because the movies would have first dibs on them. They wouldn't be able to do any soap opera with the existing characters, lest they contradict upcoming movies. Anything they did do in the comics wouldn't be referenced in the movies/TV shows, because only a tiny fraction of the audience will have read them. It's not going to happen. It would be a logistical nightmare.



    They should always be adding new characters to the supporting cast and keeping the soap opera fresh. Especially characters that aren't super heroes or super villains. Who are Peter's friends these days? His neighbors? His rivals? His classmates? His co-workers? There's room for more characters, more stories, especially as some of the most famous characters (Gwen, Harry, Flash) have been written out of the series.

    As for Batman, his civilian supporting cast is practically non-existent these days.



    They might take issue if Marvel introduced a white Mary Jane Watson into the MCU. I don't think they'd take that same issue if Michelle Jones was introduced in the comics. Nobody made that complaint about Samuel L Jackson's Nick Fury or Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie when the comics introduced new versions to reflect the movies.

    The situation sucks. Young girls who identified with Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane Watson got Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, the Mary Jane novels and Ultimate Spider-Man as their gateway into the publishing side of Marvel, featuring a recognisable version of that character. If they then moved onto the main series comics of that era, that Mary Jane wasn't too many steps removed.

    Young girls who identify with Zendaya's Michelle Jones/MJ get nothing.
    I really disagree with the movies having “First dibs” on characters. The comics and movies work together. If a certain villain is appearing in a movie expect him ( or her) to pop up in Amazing. Morbius is an obvious example of this.

  5. #155
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    They might take issue if Marvel introduced a white Mary Jane Watson into the MCU. I don't think they'd take that same issue if Michelle Jones was introduced in the comics. Nobody made that complaint about Samuel L Jackson's Nick Fury or Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie when the comics introduced new versions to reflect the movies.

    The situation sucks. Young girls who identified with Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane Watson got Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, the Mary Jane novels and Ultimate Spider-Man as their gateway into the publishing side of Marvel, featuring a recognisable version of that character. If they then moved onto the main series comics of that era, that Mary Jane wasn't too many steps removed.

    Young girls who identify with Zendaya's Michelle Jones/MJ get nothing.
    I think at this point they would be expected to accept that MCU Michelle is just a version of Mary Jane, and if they want a character with a cast similar to MCU Spidey they'd be better off checking out Miles' book.

  6. #156
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    When has something like that ever worked?
    Jimmy Olsen and Perry White first premiered in the Superman radio show.
    Harley Quinn was in the Batman animated series, as was the Phantasm (currently in the Tom King/ Clay Mann Batman/ Catwoman series)
    X-23 first premiered in the now largely forgotten X-Men: Evolution animated series
    Batgirl was created for the 60s TV show (although the comic came out before the episode introducing her)
    Firestar was created for Spider-Man And His Amazing Friends

    The biggest precedent would be the two different Wally Wests in the current DC comics.

    The comics are influenced by films in different ways. Zod was a minor character prior to the Superman movie. Starlord was a no-nonsense peacekeeper prior to Chris Pratt playing him in Guardians of the Galaxy. I think Spider-Man 2 being one of Dan Slott's favorite movies ever had an impact on Superior Spider-Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    She is called "Michelle" until the climax, when she says her nickname is "MJ" as a surprise reveal for the audience and is then pretty much called "MJ" from that point forward. "MJ" carries with it some meaning to the Spider-Man franchise.



    Man, that interview with Feige and Pascal is so disingenuous considering she does in fact end up dating Peter at the end of the second movie.



    And what happens if they do introduce a "Michelle" into the comics and she doesn't forever supplant Mary Jane Watson as the franchise's main love interest? "Sorry, girls of color, but you'll always be secondary to a white woman?"

    (And what happens if they make more Tom Holland-led MCU Spider-Man movies, but Zendaya doesn't want to come back?)

    (Nadia bares so little resemblance to the MCU's Hope, who herself bares little resemblance to the MC2 Hope that inspired the MCU incarnation. She was a comic character first.)
    In ongoing series, it's difficult to say anything is forever.

    I don't think anyone expects a new character to forever supplant MJ as the main love interest. Although it would be a way to create some tension on that question.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 12-07-2021 at 05:46 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I really disagree with the movies having “First dibs” on characters. The comics and movies work together. If a certain villain is appearing in a movie expect him ( or her) to pop up in Amazing. Morbius is an obvious example of this.
    That wouldn't really be possible if the comics and movies were set in the universe and continuity. How would they have done a Spider-Man vs Mysterio comic set in the MCU, released at the same time as Far From Home? If it's a prequel then they haven't met yet, if it's a sequel then Mysterio is already dead. Too many hoops to jump through.

    Marvel cannot take the dozens of titles they publish each month and replace them with MCU adventures. It's completely unfeasible and would prevent the comics from generating new characters, stories and ideas for Marvel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think at this point they would be expected to accept that MCU Michelle is just a version of Mary Jane, and if they want a character with a cast similar to MCU Spidey they'd be better off checking out Miles' book.
    Yeah, so they get nothing. They get to see someone like them represented in the movies and nowhere else. There's no comic you can give to a 9 year old girl who identifies with Zendaya's MJ. It sucks.

  8. #158
    Astonishing Member Vortex85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    That wouldn't really be possible if the comics and movies were set in the universe and continuity. How would they have done a Spider-Man vs Mysterio comic set in the MCU, released at the same time as Far From Home? If it's a prequel then they haven't met yet, if it's a sequel then Mysterio is already dead. Too many hoops to jump through.

    Marvel cannot take the dozens of titles they publish each month and replace them with MCU adventures. It's completely unfeasible and would prevent the comics from generating new characters, stories and ideas for Marvel.



    Yeah, so they get nothing. They get to see someone like them represented in the movies and nowhere else. There's no comic you can give to a 9 year old girl who identifies with Zendaya's MJ. It sucks.
    The root cause of this problem is calling her "MJ".

    They should have just left her a new love interest called Michelle and not messed with fan expectations. Now we are stuck in a scenario where Mary Jane fans from the comics and classic lore are unfulfilled not being able to a see a faithful adaption on film because that would upset MCU fans that Michelle is not the REAL MJ. Likewise, new MJ (Zendaya) fans can't see their character in the comics next to Mary Jane because that would show that she isn't the real MJ and they would question why she can't be the REAL MJ for Peter.

    Either way, it sucks for both sides as far as seeing their favorite character adapted from the comics OR the movie side.

    The best way out of this is to just transform MCU MJ into classic Mary Jane somehow in the next movies. Don't leave it ambiguous. Further, if they did want to introduce her in the comics, they can always have the next Spider-verse event bring her in as the REAL MJ of an alt-reality Peter. That that could be 2 options to solve the problem on both sides.
    Last edited by Vortex85; 12-07-2021 at 07:35 PM.

  9. #159
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Jimmy Olsen and Perry White first premiered in the Superman radio show.
    Harley Quinn was in the Batman animated series, as was the Phantasm (currently in the Tom King/ Clay Mann Batman/ Catwoman series)
    X-23 first premiered in the now largely forgotten X-Men: Evolution animated series
    Batgirl was created for the 60s TV show (although the comic came out before the episode introducing her)
    Firestar was created for Spider-Man And His Amazing Friends

    The biggest precedent would be the two different Wally Wests in the current DC comics.

    The comics are influenced by films in different ways. Zod was a minor character prior to the Superman movie. Starlord was a no-nonsense peacekeeper prior to Chris Pratt playing him in Guardians of the Galaxy. I think Spider-Man 2 being one of Dan Slott's favorite movies ever had an impact on Superior Spider-Man.
    I'd say it's rather telling that your list is filled with superheroes (or supervillains), the only civilian characters on your list are from around 80 years ago (and "Jimmy" was already filling a role as an unnamed office boy before the radio show gave him a name). So unless you think they should take "Michelle" and turn her into a superhero, it's probably not going to work out so well.

    In ongoing series, it's difficult to say anything is forever.

    I don't think anyone expects a new character to forever supplant MJ as the main love interest. Although it would be a way to create some tension on that question.
    I'm reminded of a Brevoort tweet from last month.

    https://twitter.com/TomBrevoort/stat...06642523529219

    So hereÂ’s a question for a Friday night. Given that the art of soap opera in comics has pretty much fallen apart, who are the best supporting characters in comics at the moment? No heroes here, please, looking for regular folks. Who is still appealing, all companies?
    A Marvel editor thinks that way of story telling has pretty much fallen apart. I don't think it would work as you do in today's day and age of comic book storytelling.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I'd say it's rather telling that your list is filled with superheroes (or supervillains), the only civilian characters on your list are from around 80 years ago (and "Jimmy" was already filling a role as an unnamed office boy before the radio show gave him a name). So unless you think they should take "Michelle" and turn her into a superhero, it's probably not going to work out so well.
    Renee Montoya. They did eventually make her the new Question, but only 15 years after her introduction in the comics.

    Michelle Jones is a bigger presence in the Spider-Man movies than Renee Montoya ever was in Batman: The Animated Series.

    If Michelle doesn't work out in the comics, then she doesn't work out. There's nothing to lose.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post

    They might take issue if Marvel introduced a white Mary Jane Watson into the MCU. I don't think they'd take that same issue if Michelle Jones was introduced in the comics. Nobody made that complaint about Samuel L Jackson's Nick Fury or Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie when the comics introduced new versions to reflect the movies.

    The situation sucks. Young girls who identified with Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane Watson got Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, the Mary Jane novels and Ultimate Spider-Man as their gateway into the publishing side of Marvel, featuring a recognisable version of that character. If they then moved onto the main series comics of that era, that Mary Jane wasn't too many steps removed.

    Young girls who identify with Zendaya's Michelle Jones/MJ get nothing.
    Well, if there's such a demand for Zendaya's MJ among young girls, and if it's an important demographic for Marvel, then you can bet they'll do something about it. They'll never let go of an opportunity to monetize a popular character, especially if there's some sweet MCU synergy to be had.

    But is there really such a demand for more of Zendaya's MJ? Has she really achieved the cult status of, say, Agent Coulson, or even a Shuri? From where I'm standing she's a supporting character for the MCU Spider-Man who's significant for being the MCU version of MJ and kinda being the ''main love interest'' but nothing more.

  12. #162
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    The biggest road block to introducing Michelle Jones in the comics isn't Mary Jane, it's the fact that the movies are joint ventures between Sony and Marvel Studios, with Sony being the company that actually holds the rights. The Sony versions of Spider-Man (original movies, Amazing movies, MTV cartoon, Spectacular cartoon) weren't allowed to appear in the original Spider-Verse story because Marvel didn't have the rights. Who knows what the current arrangement between Sony and Marvel does or doesn't allow them.

    Zendaya's MJ was a big part of Far From Home and she was all over the No Way Home trailer. No Way Home is going to be huge movie. I imagine she'll continue to play an important role in the 4th movie.

    It would be wise to at the very least have a "Spider-Man Loves MJ" graphic novel on store shelves right now, with an MJ who looks and acts as close to Zendaya's version as legally possible. Not everything done with the Spider-Man series has to target 40 year old men.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    As for Batman, his civilian supporting cast is practically non-existent these days.



    They might take issue if Marvel introduced a white Mary Jane Watson into the MCU. I don't think they'd take that same issue if Michelle Jones was introduced in the comics. Nobody made that complaint about Samuel L Jackson's Nick Fury or Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie when the comics introduced new versions to reflect the movies.
    Actually, they did. A lot of people hate those versions for replacing their original counterparts.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Actually, they did. A lot of people hate those versions for replacing their original counterparts.
    That's a different complaint. Here's the post I was responding to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Most people take her as "MCU MJ", which you lose if you separate the character and try to make her into her own character independent of Mary Jane. She is MJ, the MCU version of MJ, for all intents and purposes. If people want to see more of her, I'm sure she'll pop up in the Freshman Year cartoon that is being created for D+ (where she may or may not be voiced by Zendaya).

    Then the question of "why wasn't Zendaya playing the REAL MJ?" will be asked over and over again.
    The argument presented here is that introducing Michelle Jones in the comics would downgrade the movie version to "not the REAL MJ". Basically, that introducing a comic equivalent would damage the perception of the movie version.

    I've not seen anyone complain that introducing Nick Fury Jr in the comics damaged the perception of the movie version played by Samuel L Jackson.

    What you're talking about is people who think movie influence on the comics damaged the original comic character. That's the opposite.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    That wouldn't really be possible if the comics and movies were set in the universe and continuity. How would they have done a Spider-Man vs Mysterio comic set in the MCU, released at the same time as Far From Home? If it's a prequel then they haven't met yet, if it's a sequel then Mysterio is already dead. Too many hoops to jump through.

    Marvel cannot take the dozens of titles they publish each month and replace them with MCU adventures. It's completely unfeasible and would prevent the comics from generating new characters, stories and ideas for Marvel.



    Yeah, so they get nothing. They get to see someone like them represented in the movies and nowhere else. There's no comic you can give to a 9 year old girl who identifies with Zendaya's MJ. It sucks.
    Again I disagree. The comics are not even in the top three of when it comes to Disney/Marvel. 1: Merchandise 2:: Films. 3: Disney Plus.4: Expanding their audience ( that is why you have characters of diverse ethnic backgrounds and ( or) genders in the Spider-Man universe), which is why I expect to see Michelle in the comics. It is also true they could hook her up with Miles or even Miguel, but if they feel they can make more money off of Zendaya then Mary Jane the redhead will be phased out.

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