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  1. #1
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    Default Namor vs Wonderman

    Namor vs Wonderman

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    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    I'm not up to date on current power levels, but Wonder Man is traditionally considered to be the bare minimum Class 100 bruiser around here, while Namor ranges from Class 75 (dry) to Class 100 (wet). With the usual Khazan defaults, that leaves Namor at a disadvantage in this fight. The fairest possible fight between them took place in Avengers #155, with Wonder Man on the deck of a ship at sea. This is how that fight ended:


  3. #3
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    I can see Namor getting beat down if he's dry, but hydrated? Hydrated, Namor has slugged it out with a very angry Hulk, hard enough to create tidal waves over a large area of coastline (KOing the Hulk but not Namor). Genuine, full-on Class 100, not bargain basement.

    Simon's durability is pretty amazing, mind, even for a Class 100 (as I recall).

    So this depends on conditions.

    1. Standard fight: Simon should take this, Namor isn't strong enough.

    2. Fight in the rain to keep Namor hydrated: It's going to be a long, drawn-out battle, unless Simon is hiding superspeed somewhere (I don't think so, but you never know). Possible win to Namor simply by being too strong and overpowering Simon despite his durability (again, barring Simon not having some kind of superspeed).

    All that is based on my own memory of a couple of characters I was never really invested in knowing, so...I'm hoping others come in with something more current. ^_^ Also, mileage may vary.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 11-23-2021 at 08:40 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I can see Namor getting beat down if he's dry, but hydrated? Hydrated, Namor has slugged it out with a very angry Hulk, hard enough to create tidal waves over a large area of coastline (KOing the Hulk but not Namor). Genuine, full-on Class 100, not bargain basement.

    Simon's durability is pretty amazing, mind, even for a Class 100 (as I recall).

    So this depends on conditions.

    1. Standard fight: Simon should take this, Namor isn't strong enough.

    2. Fight in the rain to keep Namor hydrated: It's going to be a long, drawn-out battle, unless Simon is hiding superspeed somewhere (I don't think so, but you never know). Possible win to Namor simply by being too strong and overpowering Simon despite his durability (again, barring Simon not having some kind of superspeed).

    All that is based on my own memory of a couple of characters I was never really invested in knowing, so...I'm hoping others come in with something more current. ^_^ Also, mileage may vary.
    In the above battle scene posted, this was Simon before his strength increased to 95 tons. Simon is now Cl 100 and even stronger.

    Simon's durability was always at the top, about equal to the Hulk's if I remember correctly from the handbook details.

    Simon does possess super-speed, and he has been seen running fast. He even outran and caught up to an NYC express train.

    Simon also has fast reflexes as shown in the old Avengers books. For example, Simon moved fast enough to see and catch a falling Ant-Man (shrunk at the time) from hitting the ground (about a 7-10 foot fall).
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 11-23-2021 at 09:02 AM.
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  5. #5
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Good information, there, though I'd rather go by feats than Marvel tonnage guestimates. Those are notoriously inaccurate (and weird) compared to the stuff people do in the comics.

    Simon have any feats beyond those for actual combat super-speed?
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Good information, there, though I'd rather go by feats than Marvel tonnage guestimates. Those are notoriously inaccurate (and weird) compared to the stuff people do in the comics.

    Simon have any feats beyond those for actual combat super-speed?
    Not super-speed but quick for a brick speed:


  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Namor isn't slow, even compared to Wonder Man. He has some decent dodging feats, and here he is smacking down a legit speedster (Whizzer/Speed Demon) from the Squadron Sinister:



    And here is Namor hitting a different speedster named Whizzer, from the same issue as that Namor/Wonder Man fight:


  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Good information, there, though I'd rather go by feats than Marvel tonnage guestimates. Those are notoriously inaccurate (and weird) compared to the stuff people do in the comics.

    Simon have any feats beyond those for actual combat super-speed?
    I believe Simon ran super-fast when fighting and beating The Thing.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Not super-speed but quick for a brick speed:

    Yes, this was the super-fast reflexes scene I was talking about.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  10. #10
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Not super-speed but quick for a brick speed
    That's a good way of putting it.

    I mean, Namor has that kind of thing himself (catching missiles, as I recall). But no legit superspeed. And if the guy doesn't have any exceptional feats outside of 'hitting a couple of speedsters, one of whom admits he's not terribly fast and Namor can still see as a blur', I'm figuring on the usual speedster PIS for that. ^_^

    Unless someone shows some actual superspeed (maybe someone will find something for Wonderman that isn't a one-off or the like?), I don't really see speed as being as much of a factor in this fight over Strength, Durability, possibly skill and experience, that kind of thing.

    Which means a pretty drawn-out brawl if Namor is hydrated.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  11. #11
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    Are "Bendis feats" allowed on the boards? (I remember there was some talk around that but I don't know if there was any official ruling).

    Going by Bendis feats, WM most recent strength feat was wrestling the Red Hulk into a sleeper hold and...well.. putting him to sleep.

    But Namor on the other hand seems to have gained some strength because last time I saw him he was holding and crushing Thor's faux hammer with one hand. This was underwater of course.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Simon has definitely had some upgradess and downgreades over the years. Last I heard he was on an upswing but that was probably over a year ago.

  13. #13
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    There's no rule against feats from specific authors, though some of them end up getting looked at very carefully to see if they're within the character's presentation. But if an entire storyline is written garbage, that whole thing can arguably get tossed out. Or if a writer demonstrates a pretty poor knowledge of a character/writes them terribly all through their run, that can get everything tossed out as well (Larry Hama writing Thor, as I recall, was generally ignored on this board; a more recent example would be Adam Beechen's Cassandra Cain stuff).
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  14. #14
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    Namor managed to draw blood from Thanos back during the Hickman Avengers, though that was a sneak attack that broke every bone in his hand, and right afterwards Thanos proceeded to beat the shit out of him.

    He also drew blood from both Sentry and Ikaris in other comics who origin I do not know. All of these are blood from the mouth type deals, not serious injuries.

    That said, isn't modern Wonder Man an energy being or something? Even if Namor had the strength to hurt him, would punches actually do anything?

  15. #15
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Really, could go either way. I'm leaning more towards Simon but not by a lot.
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