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  1. #31
    Incredible Member Astralabius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    The way some people religiously hate Bruce I have to ask myself that question everyday.

    Ignoring the leap in logic to justify this panel supposedly being about Bruce abusing Damian, I just love how Bruce doing anything wrong is always 100% on him. When any of the Batfamily are written in a way their fans don't like it's always 100% the writers and editorial's fault.

    I can only imagine the mental gymnastics there'd be if Saint Damian, or any of the Batfam, consistently does truly abhorrent things in the future. They won't get the abusive asshole label Bruce has, whoever writes them that way will be called a hack and blamed for ruining them. They'll get none of the accountability Bruce is held to.
    The huge and important difference between Bruce messing up in canon and batfamily members messing up in canon is that DC seemingly hates Bruce ever facing any serious consequences for his actions while the other characters do get punished by DC. That is what makes fans so mad and why they are so defensive of their faves. You are confusing fans of the batfam wanting to see Bruce being held accountable with DC actually holding Bruce accountable in their stories when it's not the same.

    When there is backlash to what a writer has Bruce do in canon, like when he sent Damian to Gotham alone during City of Bane, when he beat up Dick for wanting to tell the rest of the family he survived the events of Forever Evil or when he punched Tim in the face, then there are usually two things that can happen. 1) The incident is ignored alltogether and nobody seems to hold a grudge against Bruce or he gets called out in one panel and then everyone magically moves on forever or 2) we get a weird excuse for Bruce's behaviour (punch code) or another character takes the blame and gets punished for what Bruce did (Dick gets insulted and punched for not telling the rest about being alive, no character ever truly corrects Damian when he says he's at fault for Alfred's death)
    DC has at no point after City of Bane made it clear that Damian truly isn't at fault and that it was Bruce's plan that was flawed. Neither Pennyworth RIP, nor Tomasi's last arc on Tec nor Robin has made that clear for the reader, leading to a lot of people actually blaming Damian for Alfred being dead because they didn't read City of Bane or didn't read it properly.

    At the end of the day Bruce will always be treated as a hero by DC. Damian doesn't have the same luxury, just look at the last Teen Titans run and their plans for 5G.

  2. #32
    Incredible Member Astralabius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Damian is Robin. Bruce had Damian do Robin things. That’s what it is to be Robin. Which as a concept has been widely accepted.
    Being Robin means following Batman's obviously flawed and dumb plans without question and taking the blame for it without anyone comforting you after the plan inevitably went wrong?

    Like, sorry, but Bruce's plan in City of Bane was simply needlessly convoluted, risky and should have failed even worse.
    He sent his 13 year old kid to fight a mentally unstable woman with the powers of Superman with a magic wand the kid potentially sold his soul for, then he planned for Damian to get beaten unconscious by his mentally unstable grandpa and taken to Wayne Manor as a hostage, all because he didn't want to risk Alfred's life by making him the person to let the batfam into the house which would have been way easier.
    Then Bruce makes a lot of noise in Gotham so Bane will send Thomas to execute the hostage, trusting that Thomas will not be able to kill Damian. Despite the fact that Bane could have simply decided to kill Damian himself (like he did with Alfred, plus he wanted to bring Bruce maximum pain), Thomas left Bruce, his own son, for dead in the desert in a previous issue and Thomas sparing Damian is directly followed by Thomas declaring the entire batfam his grandchildren and beating them up, crowned by him going to where Bruce is and shooting him in the gut two times because he was a complete lunatic.

    What Bruce asked of Damian in City of Bane shouldn't he accepted, he was needlessly putting Damian's life at risk.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    DC has at no point after City of Bane made it clear that Damian truly isn't at fault and that it was Bruce's plan that was flawed. Neither Pennyworth RIP, nor Tomasi's last arc on Tec nor Robin has made that clear for the reader, leading to a lot of people actually blaming Damian for Alfred being dead because they didn't read City of Bane or didn't read it properly.
    Williamson obviously will address it next year, since he's writing both Bruce and Damian at this point, and he's definitely setting up their meeting.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Your really underselling him time under Talia and ras
    He’s been taking abuse all his life physically mental and emotional
    I'm not under selling it at all. I never mentioned it because it's not part of this thread's topic. This thread is about Bruce's abuse not Damian's parent's abuse

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    The huge and important difference between Bruce messing up in canon and batfamily members messing up in canon is that DC seemingly hates Bruce ever facing any serious consequences for his actions while the other characters do get punished by DC. That is what makes fans so mad and why they are so defensive of their faves. You are confusing fans of the batfam wanting to see Bruce being held accountable with DC actually holding Bruce accountable in their stories when it's not the same.

    When there is backlash to what a writer has Bruce do in canon, like when he sent Damian to Gotham alone during City of Bane, when he beat up Dick for wanting to tell the rest of the family he survived the events of Forever Evil or when he punched Tim in the face, then there are usually two things that can happen. 1) The incident is ignored alltogether and nobody seems to hold a grudge against Bruce or he gets called out in one panel and then everyone magically moves on forever or 2) we get a weird excuse for Bruce's behaviour (punch code) or another character takes the blame and gets punished for what Bruce did (Dick gets insulted and punched for not telling the rest about being alive, no character ever truly corrects Damian when he says he's at fault for Alfred's death)
    DC has at no point after City of Bane made it clear that Damian truly isn't at fault and that it was Bruce's plan that was flawed. Neither Pennyworth RIP, nor Tomasi's last arc on Tec nor Robin has made that clear for the reader, leading to a lot of people actually blaming Damian for Alfred being dead because they didn't read City of Bane or didn't read it properly.

    At the end of the day Bruce will always be treated as a hero by DC. Damian doesn't have the same luxury, just look at the last Teen Titans run and their plans for 5G.
    What do you want, for Bruce to get the death penalty for his actions? You talk about everyone moving on after calling him out, what else should they do? Having them harp on "woe is me" risks making them look bad after awhile especially if whatever Bruce didn't to them wasn't some heinous war crime. After awhile they will come off as whiny and petty. Ironic that Bruce is always told to get over witnessing his parents' violent death right in front of him as a child but Batfamily fans don't want them to move past the bad things he's done to them.

    Do you want him to be berated for the rest of eternity? This is what I mean about the strong almost supernatural hatred Batfamily fans have for Bruce. Him getting chewed out once for something he did wrong isn't good enough, he must get verbally destroyed by their favorites from here on out. Nothing short of consistent Bruce sucks tirades and reminding him of all his wrongdoings, while completely ignoring any of their own, is good enough.

    I think getting back at Bruce is more important to some Batfamily fans than anything else, he legit lives rentfree in their minds. They probably hate him more than they like their favorites, which is saying something since a lot of their personalities boil down to "I like (insert Batfamily member) A LOT"
    Last edited by The True Detective; 11-25-2021 at 05:56 AM.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    The way some people religiously hate Bruce I have to ask myself that question everyday.

    Ignoring the leap in logic to justify this panel supposedly being about Bruce abusing Damian, I just love how Bruce doing anything wrong is always 100% on him. When any of the Batfamily are written in a way their fans don't like it's always 100% the writers and editorial's fault.

    I can only imagine the mental gymnastics there'd be if Saint Damian, or any of the Batfam, consistently does truly abhorrent things in the future. They won't get the abusive asshole label Bruce has, whoever writes them that way will be called a hack and blamed for ruining them. They'll get none of the accountability Bruce is held to.
    The way some people will ignore plain text in black and white to do gymnastics. Damian isn't a saint. He has done abhorrent things.
    Bruce is an abuser who has done abhorrent things. Calling attention to Bruce's awfulness doesn't mean that Damian is a saint.

    The plan in City of Bane IS 100% on bruce. Alfred's death is on Alfred, Bruce and bane.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Can this please not descend into a batman family fans hate Bruce please. Majority of Batfamily fans also are batman fans.

  8. #38
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    Being Robin means following Batman's obviously flawed and dumb plans without question and taking the blame for it without anyone comforting you after the plan inevitably went wrong?
    Honestly, ya. That’s pretty much the job. Hey kid let’s go out and fight crime in costumes. The entire concept of Robin is Batman putting a kid in extreme danger.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    I'm not under selling it at all. I never mentioned it because it's not part of this thread's topic. This thread is about Bruce's abuse not Damian's parent's abuse
    Based on the panel where Damian says head been taking abuse “all his life” which Bruce really only has had been apart of for two.

    Talia and the league did most of that damage. He may of died 3 times but the first still came from Talia and giant clone of him. Damian knows abuse all too well

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Can this please not descend into a batman family fans hate Bruce please. Majority of Batfamily fans also are batman fans.
    That's where this thread was always gonna go from the start. Just look at its title. Somehow a line Damian said, that clearly encapsulated his entire life, was taken and made to be about ONE moment with Bruce.

    I'm also of the mind that Bruce royally fucked up when it came to his family's treatment in King's run and that he's horrible for wasting THREE separate opportunities to talk to Damian about it. But come on. Not even Reed Richards could stretch that far. This was never about just Bruce. Bruce isn't even responsible for half of Damian's issues. I don't know why it's even being looked at like that. There was nothing to overanalyze or guess about in that panel. Damian said exactly what he said.

    And y'all know I love when the Batfamily drags Bruce to the carpet. Especially the two times that Babs did it in recent years. But this was not one of those moments.
    Last edited by Blue22; 11-25-2021 at 09:48 AM.

  11. #41
    Incredible Member baumblume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Based on the panel where Damian says head been taking abuse “all his life” which Bruce really only has had been apart of for two.

    Talia and the league did most of that damage. He may of died 3 times but the first still came from Talia and giant clone of him. Damian knows abuse all too well
    Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of great stuff in Pennyworth RIP that I really needed to hear. But there’s also that one scene where DC is doing it again, changing the story and putting the blame on another character so Bruce is not at fault for a tragedy:


    So at first I thought:“Well, Jason wasn’t part of the plan, so he didn’t know that Damian went in on Bruce’s orders and Barbara or Bruce are going to correct him, right?”

    But that doesn’t really happen. After telling a story about Alfred Damian says this:

    At this point in time the only thing that didn’t go according to plan was that Alfred wasn’t supposed to be there. He lied about being safe when he wasn’t. Based on this wrong information Bruce sent Damian to the city, where he did nothing he wasn’t supposed to do. But instead of making that clear it’s easier to put the blame on a 13 year old I guess. Thanks DC.
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  12. #42
    Incredible Member baumblume's Avatar
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    ,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Last edited by baumblume; 11-25-2021 at 01:20 PM.
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  13. #43
    Incredible Member baumblume's Avatar
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    -------...
    Last edited by baumblume; 11-25-2021 at 10:27 AM.
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  14. #44
    Bajuszbetyár The Invincible Beawulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baumblume View Post
    Well Damian, your dad is apparently too busy making out with his girlfriend and going on vacation to rescue you. I’m sure you’ll be fine.
    damn that's a nice picture
    "Darling, I am the filth." - Devlin Waugh (Judge Dredd Megazine)

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Can this please not descend into a batman family fans hate Bruce please. Majority of Batfamily fans also are batman fans.
    This whole thread was started to specifically go after Bruce for what the OP presumes the panel is about, even though there is no explicit implication Damian is even referring to him.

    Why did the OP go after Bruce? He's not the only one who raised or treated Damian poorly. Why not Talia, Ra's and the League? As usual Bruce is singled out for things others also do, and people wonder why his fans get sick of it and clap back.

    And I highly doubt the majority of the Batfamily fans here also like Bruce, lots of them always go out of their way to remind everyone how they read Batbooks for them and not Bruce himself. Almost like they're proud of the fact, they can't just like them more. That's not good enough, they feel compelled to let us now the Batfam are what draws them in not Batman.

    They bash him every chance they get, then act like victims and play the "why can't we all get along?" card when Bruce fans say anything back. I agree there doesn't have to be a petty beef from the 2 sides but threads like this are why they won't stop anytime soon. Btw before anyone asks I know a lot of Bruce fans who hate the Batfamily too and can be just as petty and that's not right either, but we have polls to prove Bruce has less fans here than his family so they're more of a vocal minority.

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