People should be complaining about Dugga's writing... For God's sake... He ''took'' Lorna from the team and didn't even develop the character. Jean isn't perfect
People should be complaining about Dugga's writing... For God's sake... He ''took'' Lorna from the team and didn't even develop the character. Jean isn't perfect
I'd say the only books that are really "moving" are those that are reaching there conclusions like Excalibur and SWORD. Marauders just spent two issues doing a Star Wars parody, New Mutants has been on the same arc for months, and X-Force just did a surfing issue. Not an excuse for this book but I'd say the lack of movement is pretty par for the course.
I don't think it's fair to assume that everyone who has questioned Jean's actions is automatically an Emma fan that has no issues with her actions. It's also not a great defense of Jean to deflect by pointing to Emma who clearly has questionable morals. Also this type of pitting fanbases against each other is not productive, especially when nobody was talking about Emma before this.
I can agree with it being a "slippery slope."
The two aren't comparable in any way. Jean crossed boundaries to help friends. Emma hasn't just crossed boundaries, she's taken over and violated the minds and bodies of adults and teenagers to make them do what they not only did not want to do but also didn't thank her for afterward.
Absolutely,I was thinking of an apt comparison and I think I have one.It reads like an infinity comic.A beautifully drawn one but still, heck even some of the infinity comics like Spine-tingling Spider-man seem to be more heavy.
And Hickman was one of the best story writers in comics rn which makes the difference all the more apparent.
Unrelated but final issue of Hickman's Decorum came out and reviews are amazing.I have them now and can't wait to dig in.
This, one character(Emma) doing something doesn't justify another one(Jean) doing something similar because they are different characters.Emma is a morally corrupt telepath, so her doing invasive stuff w/ TP is very much in character(aside from the young Scott thing, that was just bad writing IMO).And some writers do shove away all this under the rug of "for the children" or "girlboss" to worship her and it's a bad thing.
Jean while no saint isn't nearly on Emma's level of not-caring about morals.She has a temper but this wasn't an impulse.
Again the real problem is the lack of information about the election process, since the comic doesn't set up any rules we are all arguing what we think the rules should be.And in comics if there are no rules then I guess it's up to the people holding the election or in this case just one person, Jean.So she has the power to bend the truth if she feels like it, and acc. to Duggan this is an instance where she felt this was okay.
Last edited by Spiderfan001; 11-25-2021 at 05:05 AM.
I never made this assumption. However, a pretty prominent Emma fan on these forums has chimed in more than thrice in this thread to criticize Jean.
You say "who clearly has questionable morals" as if that's supposed to make her actions okay or understandable. Moreover, I brought up Emma to point out the double standard, not to deflect from or defend Jean.
There is no lack of information. The mutants who wanted to be considered for election and placement on the new team were supposed to telepathically express their interest to all mutants. Initially, Lorna wanted to be considered but then stopped herself from expressing that desire to the rest of the mutants because she became insecure.
I think Duggan made it pretty clear that all Jean did was telepathically cause Lorna to say what she had been saying to herself before backing down: "Pick Me." Jean didn't force anyone to vote for Lorna; she only made sure that Lorna was in the running. Furthermore, Jean didn't "bend the truth," so that's an inaccurate take.
Yeah, a bit more writing focused on Polaris would have been great. I also think a few things could have been left out. Overall, I think the execution needed improvement.
As for the Jean/Emma stuff, I understand the frustration. It happens with quite a few other characters. I'm not sure there's really any solution to it to be honest. If there is, I certainly have no idea. Reactions/perspectives are always a surprise.
Last edited by TheDeadSpace; 11-25-2021 at 05:15 AM.
"This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
-Spider-man
“Evil is evil...lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same."
-Geralt of Rivia
Ok then respond to that poster. You made a general statement about how "people" (a.k.a. multiple) have a double standard when it comes to Emma. Also you're again assuming that I have some stake in the Emma game, by saying that I said her actions are okay or even understandable. I'd understand if every comment in here was attacking Jean and praising Emma, but I haven't seen any of that. I understand the point you're trying to make but making assumptions about fanbases and pitting them against each other is not it. It creates this false dichotomy between Jean and Emma fans that certainly does not have to exist. People can like Jean for certain reasons and like Emma for others because they're different characters.
Last edited by Kingdom X; 11-25-2021 at 05:17 AM.
On the scale of questionable" things Jean's done...this is utterly insignificant. Again...as explained in the story...she didn't violate Lorna's trust or take away her "agency" or neglected "consent" or any of the trendy rote terminologies some like to use (out of context).
As with every X-Man...she did what she felt was right in the moment. And as with all such decisions....it could have come back to bite her but it didn't. Regardless of how we all may feel about it...it really isn't that deep. Simply because the one person who is solely affected by this...Lorna...is actually very okies with it. If the narrative had gone in the other direction and Lorna wasn't okies with Jean's push then all the over-angst might...might...be justified.
Lord Ewing *Praise His name! Uplift Him in song!* Your divine works will be remembered and glorified in worship for all eternity. Amen!
So what happens if someone made one pitch and then made another one, which one is chosen?And why does Jean have the power to pick the pitch she feels is better even though someone changes their mind.
How do the people who didn't make it because Jean helped one of them out feel?
Also why didn't we actually get to see Lorna's pitch in her spotlight issue?
Again it's the same thing as consequences not justifying actions.W/ Bobby and now w/ Lorna Jean takes the decision out of their hands, the writer can make it so that it turns out it was the right choice but at the end of the day it doesn't justify the action.It's not her choice.
She may have felt it was right, but it wasn't her choice in the first place.And this isn't a matter of life and death where she had to choose because stakes were very high.
Also "It's quite elegant, actually.Telepathically bonded, any mutant who wishes to...."I think Lorna thought about it but at the time of voting didn't wish to be a part of the X-men.Jean changed that and went w/ what she thought earlier.Hence I said bending the truth.
Again it's not something new, I stated before I don't think it's a big deal.But I do think people saying what she did what questionable do have a reason to say so
Last edited by Spiderfan001; 11-25-2021 at 05:30 AM.
Frankly, I don't have to respond to that poster if I don't want to.
Yes, I did make a general statement. However, I pointed out what you wrote - "It's also not a great defense of Jean to deflect by pointing to Emma who clearly has questionable morals." - because it seemed to evidence this double standard. (By the way, you don't have to be an Emma fan or "have some stake in the Emma game" to hold her to a different standard than you do Jean.) Moreover, I never wrote that you "said her actions are okay or even understandable." I wrote, "You say "who clearly has questionable morals" as if that's supposed to make her actions okay or understandable."
By the way, why did you bring up that Emma "clearly has questionable morals"?
"Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
Krakoa, Arakko, and Otherworld forever!
I will be dropping this book, I just can't justify buying when I'm yet to enjoy a single issue. Every issue feels the same and it's not entertaining or thought provoking, hopefully after this book ends we can get an x-book that has some progression or substance. I thought fallen angels was garbage but at least that story had a point.
I'm just glad Lorna has found her "safe space" (to use one of those rote terminologies) to flourish and shine and, in some measure, heal...thanks to her friend Jean. And for all intent and purpose, going by what's actually written in the story, Lorna is glad too. It is indeed a win.
Happy Day of being Thankful, Sibling.
Last edited by Devaishwarya; 11-25-2021 at 06:01 AM.
Lord Ewing *Praise His name! Uplift Him in song!* Your divine works will be remembered and glorified in worship for all eternity. Amen!
I mentioned Emma clearly having questionable morals, because you flooded a thread about an issue that had nothing to do with Emma with images of her being morally dubious. Everybody knows that she is and if they don't than they're kidding themselves. It's been part of her character from jump.
Again my main point is that I don't think it's cool to create false dichotomies between fanbases because they are plenty of people who like all of these characters despite their differences. I'd prefer not to derail the thread with Emma talk because again, she was not the focus of this issue.
Edit: I'm realizing I'm coming off more combative than I normally do. Definitely not my intention! Thankful that we can have these discussions and enjoy these stories together!
Last edited by Kingdom X; 11-25-2021 at 06:06 AM.