X-MEN #5 Review *spoilers*

[Mercury]

What if she has to be the one to do that to Urich to keep him quiet about Resurrection?

I think, in Urich's case, she would do it. After all, she has mindwiped people before, including a crowd of hundreds to help Rogue. While I don't like how Williams wrote the scene in which the Avengers were being toured through the Hatchery, I can sort of justify Jean not wanting to mindwipe them because she considers a handful of them, including Vision, her friends.

[Mercury]

Not agreeing w/ anyone but Duggan does have a habit of playing favs.UA it was Rogue and it does look like it's Jean for X-men, so when that rolls around and it's a fav that you aren't really a fan of the book will go down for you quite a bit.

It still surprises me to see casual fans of Jean and even those that are not fans of her opine that she's getting special treatment in this series. Mind you, it's not because I disagree, but because I always assume that I am always slightly overestimating her involvement in anything. Hell, I'll praise the hell out of a cameo even, lol. It feels good to see others agree with how I view her appearance in this series.

Duggan has been really good to her in this series. Incidentally, he DMed me today to thank me for the "kind words" and to wish me happy holidays. That totally took me aback and made me feel great for Jean. You see, my account is all about praising her and delving into her history and development, so, if, as a creator, you contact, follow, or even RT my stuff, I know on some level you are a Jean fan, or, at the very least, very curious about her.

Frankly, Jean deserves this treatment, especially considering how long she was shoved to the sidelines this era.

[Mercury]

I love this reviewer's takes.

[Spiderfan001]

It still surprises me to see casual fans of Jean and even those that are not fans of her opine that she's getting special treatment in this series. Mind you, it's not because I disagree, but because I always assume that I am always slightly overestimating her involvement in anything. Hell, I'll praise the hell out of a cameo even, lol. It feels good to see others agree with how I view her appearance in this series.

Duggan has been really good to her in this series. Incidentally, he DMed me today to thank me for the "kind words" and to wish me happy holidays. That totally took me aback and made me feel great for Jean. You see, my account is all about praising her and delving into her history and development, so, if, as a creator, you contact, follow, or even RT my stuff, I know on some level you are a Jean fan, or, at the very least, very curious about her.

Frankly, Jean deserves this treatment, especially considering how long she was shoved to the sidelines this era.

I agree, people being pissed that their fav isn't getting good treatment shouldn't be taken out on the character(and their fans) who are.

Then again it's an ever growing team franchise so it's a downside.Although w/ Marvel's (stupid) legacy craze feels like they are treating solo characters even worse.

Yeah, Jean def. does.Then again I can see where Rogue fans are coming from because Rogue's been treated horribly in this era and Duggan was supposed to be the Rogue fan on top of getting her out of Excalibur and in X-men.6 months of tid-bits after high expectations will piss folks off, but (again) again this isn't about Jean being given the spotlight.A competent writer can do both.

Recently re(-re)-read X-factor(only 10 issues this time around) and even though Jamie is clearly the main/"POV" character every character gets a chance to shine.

Duggan's talking a gamble and from all the people I know who read and more importantly buy X-men most dropped it or are thinking about it.It doesn't help that there is basically no ongoing plot aside from teases.If there was people would stick around for said plot while Duggan can get to all characters, but he's just shooting himself in the foot.It took me by surprise how many people are dropping it, then again it's a monthly title and this pacing would be a little annoying even weekly like ASM.

The next issues will add another new thing in Captain Krakoa but seemingly Doc Stasis will be making plays.Then another issue of what I'm assuming will be standalone in the form of MODOK.So I hope the next 2 bring people back on and fast

[Mercury]

I agree, people being pissed that their fav isn't getting good treatment shouldn't be taken out on the character(and their fans) who are.

Then again it's an ever growing team franchise so it's a downside.Although w/ Marvel's (stupid) legacy craze feels like they are treating solo characters even worse.

Yeah, Jean def. does.Then again I can see where Rogue fans are coming from because Rogue's been treated horribly in this era and Duggan was supposed to be the Rogue fan on top of getting her out of Excalibur and in X-men.6 months of tid-bits after high expectations will piss folks off, but (again) again this isn't about Jean being given the spotlight.A competent writer can do both.

Recently re(-re)-read X-factor(only 10 issues this time around) and even though Jamie is clearly the main/"POV" character every character gets a chance to shine.

Duggan's talking a gamble and from all the people I know who read and more importantly buy X-men most dropped it or are thinking about it.It doesn't help that there is basically no ongoing plot aside from teases.If there was people would stick around for said plot while Duggan can get to all characters, but he's just shooting himself in the foot.It took me by surprise how many people are dropping it, then again it's a monthly title and this pacing would be a little annoying even weekly like ASM.

The next issues will add another new thing in Captain Krakoa but seemingly Doc Stasis will be making plays.Then another issue of what I'm assuming will be standalone in the form of MODOK.So I hope the next 2 bring people back on and fast

Oh, I totally understand and can empathize with fans of other characters, such as Laura and Rogue, being disappointed at not having a substantial amount of "screen time" devoted to their favorites. (I've been there.) On a hopeful note, it seems like Duggan is set on giving each character a spotlight issue - so far, he's done so with Sunfire, Jean, and now Lorna - so I think it's safe to say the other four members will be getting theirs in the upcoming issues.

Regarding people dropping the book, that's par for the course when it comes to comics. The numbers often fluctuate. Still, this iteration of X-Men has consistently been in the top 3-5 bestsellers each month. I don't really expect that to change. Not only each member but also the X-Men brand as a whole has enough fans to sustain the readership of this series.

As for Duggan, I think he's done a great job of establishing an entertaining series that reads like a hybrid of bronze and modern age comics, especially considering the fact that he is sort of caught in the crossfires of three major paradigm-shifting events (i.e., The Trial of Magneto, Inferno, and the upcoming X Lives/X Deaths of Wolverine). He has to tread carefully. It's also important to note that he's just getting comfortable with some of these characters and their interpersonal dynamics.

Nonetheless, Duggan has set up four major and compelling arcs - Feilong, Dr. Stasis, Cordyceps Jones and his Gameworld, and Ben Urich's discovery - each of which I find interesting and am looking forward to seeing reach a crescendo. My hunch is, once the aforementioned "big events" unfold and are resolved, this book will pick up the pace. Still, though I'm obviously loving Jean's depiction here, as a whole, I've enjoyed the hell out of this book.

[Spiderfan001]

Oh, I totally understand and can empathize with fans of other characters, such as Laura and Rogue, being disappointed at not having a substantial amount of "screen time" devoted to their favorites. (I've been there.) On a hopeful note, it seems like Duggan is set on giving each character a spotlight issue - so far, he's done so with Sunfire, Jean, and now Lorna - so I think it's safe to say the other four members will be getting theirs in the upcoming issues.

I wouldn't say Sunfire to be brutally honest.He's gotten his fair share so far but not an entire spotlight issue.I loved the issue 1 pacing and panel time b/w characters, it was well thought out and gave everyone something to do.The mech made a perfect vessel to showcase the teams powers.

Regarding people dropping the book, that's par for the course when it comes to comics. The numbers often fluctuate. Still, this iteration of X-Men has consistently been in the top 3-5 bestsellers each month. I don't really expect that to change. Not only each member but also the X-Men brand as a whole has enough fans to sustain the readership of this series.

Absolutely, it's just people who I do talk to online that are X-fans are dropping it which surprises me.Hopefully it doesn't change.

As for Duggan, I think he's done a great job of establishing an entertaining series that reads like a hybrid of bronze and modern age comics, especially considering the fact that he is sort of caught in the crossfires of three major paradigm-shifting events (i.e., The Trial of Magneto, Inferno, and the upcoming X Lives/X Deaths of Wolverine). He has to tread carefully. It's also important to note that he's just getting comfortable with some of these characters and their interpersonal dynamics.

Trial of Magneto isn't affecting anything.Pretty sure Leah said they made it into an "event" to sell more.I don't know what influence Inferno has but considering X lives and Deaths is the "HOX/POX sequel"(which ironically is what they called Inferno before this) I don't know how that is affecting this.

Other books are moving on, I don't see why he has to read lightly.Even Marauders has some plot rn.

I'm sure he is, but getting used to characters and dynamics is a valid excuse if the characters or dynamics are badly written(like first 6 issues of Chip's Spec. Spidey run).He's written stories before, and he's choosing to not go ahead w/ the plot.He can write the characters the same way if they were fighting other threats as well.

Nonetheless, Duggan has set up four major and compelling arcs - Feilong, Dr. Stasis, Cordyceps Jones and his Gameworld, and Ben Urich's discovery - each of which I find interesting and am looking forward to seeing reach a crescendo. My hunch is, once the aforementioned "big events" unfold and are resolved, this book will pick up the pace. Still, though I'm obviously loving Jean's depiction here, as a whole, I've enjoyed the hell out of this book.

Feilong:- has had very baseline development.And interesting if slightly unoriginal idea for a character that's barely been fleshed out yet.

Dr. statis:-Stasis rn is as barebones as they come.He wants immortality, mutants figured it out.Although w/ the helmet I saw a theory that he may be Capt. Krakoa and again sounds intriguing but as of right now it's nothing more than a very basic structure.

Game world:- I have a feeling I'll love this arc when we get there, but as of right now it's again barely developed.Aliens sending dangerous creatures to Earth for sport w/ maybe alterior motives we haven't seen yet.

Urich:-It's a sub-sub-plot of stasis.And as people have said his reasoning here doesn't make much sense.Mutants and supes come back all the time.Alt. realities, shapeshifters, clones, fake pictures, etc. There was a way to make this very compelling and create a sense of panic and dread among X-men if it gets out but it lacks punch.

So 3/4(maybe 5 if Cap. Krakoa is another thing ) barebone ideas for antagonists which need to be fleshed out and 3-4 character spotlight issues while also making a organic plot tying it all up while picking up the pace.Not saying it can't be done but Duggan hasn't shown the capability to pull all of this off yet.

I glad you're enjoying it and I do too, but I'd like for the book to have more substance and fast.It's a monthly premier X-title and should have more weight to it

[Mercury]

I wouldn't say Sunfire to be brutally honest.He's gotten his fair share so far but not an entire spotlight issue.I loved the issue 1 pacing and panel time b/w characters, it was well thought out and gave everyone something to do.The mech made a perfect vessel to showcase the teams powers.

You're right; Sunfire hasn't had an issue dedicated to him, but, like with Jean and Lorna, he has had how/why he joined the team focused on, including a flashback to his Gala speech.

Trial of Magneto isn't affecting anything.Pretty sure Leah said they made it into an "event" to sell more.I don't know what influence Inferno has but considering X lives and Deaths is the "HOX/POX sequel"(which ironically is what they called Inferno before this) I don't know how that is affecting this.

We don't know yet the extent to which characters from this series are going to be featured in those above, or whether their involvement will impact the plots of those events, which, in turn, could impact what is written for this book. A few X-Men have already appeared in ToM and we know Jean is appearing in X Live/X Deaths.... We'll just have to wait and see how those events unfold before we can determine whether the outcomes to either will affect this series.

I'm sure he is, but getting used to characters and dynamics is a valid excuse if the characters or dynamics are badly written(like first 6 issues of Chip's Spec. Spidey run).He's written stories before, and he's choosing to not go ahead w/ the plot.He can write the characters the same way if they were fighting other threats as well.

The operative word here is "choosing" not to push the plot(s) forward quicker. There's a reason for that and I wouldn't just resort to saying it's because he's a bad writer.

Feilong:- has had very baseline development.And interesting if slightly unoriginal idea for a character that's barely been fleshed out yet.

Dr. statis:-Stasis rn is as barebones as they come.He wants immortality, mutants figured it out.Although w/ the helmet I saw a theory that he may be Capt. Krakoa and again sounds intriguing but as of right now it's nothing more than a very basic structure.

Game world:- I have a feeling I'll love this arc when we get there, but as of right now it's again barely developed.Aliens sending dangerous creatures to Earth for sport w/ maybe alterior motives we haven't seen yet.

Urich:-It's a sub-sub-plot of stasis.And as people have said his reasoning here doesn't make much sense.Mutants and supes come back all the time.Alt. realities, shapeshifters, clones, fake pictures, etc. There was a way to make this very compelling and create a sense of panic and dread among X-men if it gets out but it lacks punch.

So 3/4(maybe 5 if Cap. Krakoa is another thing ) barebone ideas for antagonists which need to be fleshed out and 3-4 character spotlight issues while also making a organic plot tying it all up while picking up the pace.Not saying it can't be done but Duggan hasn't shown the capability to pull all of this off yet.

I understand your lack of enthusiasm for these arcs and adversaries; however, I find them interesting. It's a matter of differing tastes, I suppose. Nonetheless, in five issues, Duggan has introduced and set up the motivations for four adversaries and an ally (High Evolutionary), presented the motivations for joining the team of three of its members, introduced the subplot centered on Laura and Synch, and, save for the last two issues, has shown the team working together, with each member getting something to do in the battles into which they've been thrust.

I understand wanting more, but I also don't think he's completely stagnated on moving things forward.

I glad you're enjoying it and I do too, but I'd like for the book to have more substance and fast.It's a monthly premier X-title and should have more weight to it

I agree that this title should be more substantial. However, it's precisely because it is the "premier X-title" - the flagship book - that the other events mentioned (ToM, Inferno, X Lives/X Deaths) will more than likely impact this book, though we don't know how yet. I still think this why Duggan is holding back on moving this series forward quicker.

[TheDeadSpace]

I thought the issue was okay at best for me. Everything feels too formulaic for the time being. Still hoping for Laura and Rogue to do something decent.

As for the Jean controversy, I feel like most of it would have been avoided if Jean had a conversation with Lorna before the vote. I think there needed to be a little bit more from Polaris's perspective. As is, it can be perceived several ways.

[numberthirty]

...

Feilong:- has had very baseline development.And interesting if slightly unoriginal idea for a character that's barely been fleshed out yet.

Dr. statis:-Stasis rn is as barebones as they come.He wants immortality, mutants figured it out.Although w/ the helmet I saw a theory that he may be Capt. Krakoa and again sounds intriguing but as of right now it's nothing more than a very basic structure.

Game world:- I have a feeling I'll love this arc when we get there, but as of right now it's again barely developed.Aliens sending dangerous creatures to Earth for sport w/ maybe alterior motives we haven't seen yet.

Urich:-It's a sub-sub-plot of stasis.And as people have said his reasoning here doesn't make much sense.Mutants and supes come back all the time.Alt. realities, shapeshifters, clones, fake pictures, etc. There was a way to make this very compelling and create a sense of panic and dread among X-men if it gets out but it lacks punch.

So 3/4(maybe 5 if Cap. Krakoa is another thing ) barebone ideas for antagonists which need to be fleshed out and 3-4 character spotlight issues while also making a organic plot tying it all up while picking up the pace.Not saying it can't be done but Duggan hasn't shown the capability to pull all of this off yet.

I glad you're enjoying it and I do too, but I'd like for the book to have more substance and fast.It's a monthly premier X-title and should have more weight to it

One now former reader's take...

This whole thing has just been painfully dull, and the stakes feel like they are roughly on the level of "Pocket Change..."

Probably not exactly fair because of the run it had to follow, but the drop off in quality from the previous run to this one is just staggering.

[Rev9]

It's a slippery slope for Jean to go with what she heard Lorna think before she thought "Just not me." Jean has been set up to have nothing but the best of intentions, but who is she to decide what's best for Lorna?
This is a very good plot point though, because it, again, brings up the debate of the ethics of telepathy.

Urich is being very "ballsy" with Cyclops. He basically rolled up to his event with an ultimatum. Can't wait to see how this all play out.

Yep, this is troubling..Jean is blurring the lines of agency, just like in Here Comes Tomorrow.

[Spiderfan001]

You're right; Sunfire hasn't had an issue dedicated to him, but, like with Jean and Lorna, he has had how/why he joined the team focused on, including a flashback to his Gala speech.

Yeah he did get that (awkwardly placed)exposition page but an issue spotlight it wasn't.Again 5 issues in and barely progressed the plot and we have only 2 character spotlight issues and only one of them done well(Jean).Polaris was better than Shiro but still very baseline.

We don't know yet the extent to which characters from this series are going to be featured in those above, or whether their involvement will impact the plots of those events, which, in turn, could impact what is written for this book. A few X-Men have already appeared in ToM and we know Jean is appearing in X Live/X Deaths.... We'll just have to wait and see how those events unfold before we can determine whether the outcomes to either will affect this series.

I severely doubt this.And it still is only reponsible for only a fraction of complaints here.Most of the things we're talking about like structure of his issues and fleshing out, etc. has nothing much to do w/ this.Also doesn't excuse stuff like Laura's character being wildly OOC

The operative word here is "choosing" not to push the plot(s) forward quicker. There's a reason for that and I wouldn't just resort to saying it's because he's a bad writer.

I agree, but after reading Marauders, X-men green and even Savage Avengers his story has never been exceptional.So while I completely agree he's choosing to do so, I don't think it's because he has an amazing ace up his sleeve but that he wants to put it off for as long as he can.

And I'd be okay w/ the pacing if he used more of the time to develop the villains.We don't need to see them interact but flesh their motivations out, not all of them but just one.For ex. the maybe the doc wants to figure immortality out for his dead/dying son.Said son is in this situation because of mutants maybe a X-men battle collateral damage, etc.Thus adding another layer to said stake.

Again it's just an example, could be anything but I wish he did more w/ these issue in character work and/or team building if not story.It's all fanservice so far and the characters haven't been explored in any depth(aside from Jean).

I understand your lack of enthusiasm for these arcs and adversaries; however, I find them interesting. It's a matter of differing tastes, I suppose. Nonetheless, in five issues, Duggan has introduced and set up the motivations for four adversaries and an ally (High Evolutionary), presented the motivations for joining the team of three of its members, introduced the subplot centered on Laura and Synch, and, save for the last two issues, has shown the team working together, with each member getting something to do in the battles into which they've been thrust.

I understand wanting more, but I also don't think he's completely stagnated on moving things forward.

I'm glad you do and they are certainly interesting bones to build upon.

"set up the motivations for four adversaries"

Barebone motives, I understand he set up 4 of them but I'd rather he do less and better quality.Any depth/backstory even a few more panels can make or break interest at this stage.

"presented the motivations for joining the team of three of its members"

2 tbh, Loran's motives weren't told.She just said pick me.We saw her self doubt which was great(again no depth, we see the moment and she says it but no reason.It's such a surface level explanation), but again we don't see her reason for joining the X-men or why they selected her.(People said it's because she's Lorna and people love her but I thought the elections were all about who had the best reason).

I'm aware I'm coming down hard on his characterizations of these character but he's not doing any story so this is the meat of all the issues.Hence why i'm so harsh on these.His Jean has been fantastic and every interaction from Synch to Scott has had depth.Even Jean moment w/ Lorna's had a lot of depth for Jean(even if it's a bit morally dubious and twitter is having a filed day w/ that lol).Duggan Jean is the only reason I'm reading, that and artwork.

Agreed on the rest

I agree that this title should be more substantial. However, it's precisely because it is the "premier X-title" - the flagship book - that the other events mentioned (ToM, Inferno, X Lives/X Deaths) will more than likely impact this book, though we don't know how yet. I still think this why Duggan is holding back on moving this series forward quicker.

I guess time will tell.Even if he's holding back plot because of things out of his hand there is quite a bit he could still do

[Mercury]

As for the Jean controversy, I feel like most of it would have been avoided if Jean had a conversation with Lorna before the vote. I think there needed to be a little bit more from Polaris's perspective. As is, it can be perceived in several ways.

As I noted previously, I do wish Duggan had given Lorna a Gala speech. While Jean may have pushed Lorna to say what she initially wanted to say - i.e., "pick me" - Lorna must have had her reasons for wanting to be a part of the new team, and she should have been allowed to express those reasons.

That being said, I find it irritating that some people choose to go after Jean for a moment like this or like the one she had with Bobby - two instances in which she was trying to help friends, albeit forcefully - but have no problems with how Emma has manipulated people and circumstances this era, especially considering her past tendency to take over and traumatize minds and bodies.

To name a few instances, she used Ororo's body to be intimate with Shaw, showed teenage Jean sex scenes between her and Jean's future husband, and took over teenage Scott's mind to "turn him into the man he is supposed to be." I'm not even going to get into what she's done this era. It's pretty rich of some of her fans to come after Jean for pushing Lorna to do something she wanted to do or for helping Bobby come out of the closet, especially when, as he admitted in that scene, he thought he was crazy as a result of his feelings and sexuality.

[Mercury]

The double standard is staggering.

[Rev9]

The double standard is staggering.

I just think two wrongs don't make a right ,there is no double standard.What Emma does is wrong, but Jean entertaining 'pushing' minds for the 'right' reasons is mere rationalisation of violating people's agency and it's a slippery slope.

[numberthirty]

As I noted previously, I do wish Duggan had given Lorna a Gala speech. While Jean may have pushed Lorna to say what she initially wanted to say - i.e., "pick me" - Lorna must have had her reasons for wanting to be a part of the new team, and she should have been allowed to express those reasons.

That being said, I find it irritating that some people choose to go after Jean for a moment like this or like the one she had with Bobby - two instances in which she was trying to help friends, albeit forcefully - but have no problems with how Emma has manipulated people and circumstances this era, especially considering her past tendency to take over and traumatize minds and bodies.

To name a few instances, she used Ororo's body to be intimate with Shaw, showed teenage Jean sex scenes between her and Jean's future husband, and took over teenage Scott's mind to "turn him into the man he is supposed to be." I'm not even going to get into what she's done this era. It's pretty rich of some of her fans to come after Jean for pushing Lorna to do something she wanted to do or for helping Bobby come out of the closet, especially when, as he admitted in that scene, he thought he was crazy as a result of his feelings and sexuality.

...

To point out the obvious...

Even if everyone agreed that whatever that "Emma..." bit was amounted to "Pretty Sketchy..."?

That would not wave a magic wand changing what Jean did if it amounted to "Basic Sketchy..."