Spider-man 79 review" Ben vs Kraven

[Lukmendes]

10) I'm paraphrasing to make a point here: Kraven says he knows every animal call, and for Spider-Man it's the sound of a dying man's broken bones. Is that the darkest way of referencing Uncle Ben's death ever?

That would be weird, 'cause Spidey never actually heard uncle Ben dying, nor would Kraven know about him, sounds like he's just saying Spidey has a hero syndrome and nothing more.

If it was meant to be a mirror, I could only call it a funhouse mirror where things get bent out and stretched from what you'd expect. KLH fired on all cylinders especially on a psychological dread aspect and made Kraven rather menacing, while Hunted basically gave me this feeling for the most part of it:

Clone Kraven't frustration is representing the fanbase waiting for something to happen .

In Kaine's book it seemed to be all but confirmed that he lifted the curse from Kraven, since it said he needed a spider to kill him. Kaine killed Kraven (stopped his heart) but managed to jumpstart it as a neat little way of playing with the wording so he was already free of immortality. But then Hunted doesn't even have Kraven wanting to settle the score with him once and for all (he was the one they used to bring him back, after all) or lure the other spiders in for his ultimate endgame of making Peter kill him... the guy he already knew wouldn't crack from the last time he really went to town on him.

Some people even theorized at the time that he died just because he could actually be killed already, and not that it had something to do with the whole "the Spider" motif. It's so ambiguous since they didn't address the Kaine storyarc that you can make the case for it in the end.

And it's weird they didn't adress the whole Kaine thing 'cause there's a pretty subtle reference to what Kraven was doing in Squirrel Girl before:



(ASM#22 vol 5).

Then again, Kraven did seem to consider to kill himself with the rifle for a moment, so maybe he was mortal again and wanted Spidey to kill because he really liked his previous last hunt I guess.

Not like I just want to take a dump on him at every opportunity because I must, but even at the time I found Hunted lukewarm and his take on Kraven didn't go many places. I thought the idea of Kraven leading a tribe, which he used at the beginning of the arc, legitimately badass and I think something could have been made of that. In the end, though, what we got was yet another Kraven offspring we're supposed to take as the ultimate replacement - and then Spencer himself worked AGAINST that when in Sinister War it seemed like everybody KNEW this was just a replacement and not Kraven proper.

It is what it is.

It's kinda the point, killing the original Kraven while keeping an identical clone means that the chances of the original being resurrected again are much lower.

So hey, this Kraven't gonna act like the actual Kraven for now on, while comic nerds know he's not the original, 'cause that guy is dead, and comic books are just stupid enough to need a compromise like this instead of not writing garbage.

[Frontier]

Does anybody remember that Ox of the Enforcers has a twin brother that's the exact same as him? And now they're both alive because of the Ox clone, I think?

[HypnoHustler]

Does anybody remember that Ox of the Enforcers has a twin brother that's the exact same as him? And now they're both alive because of the Ox clone, I think?

I never thought we would go from “clone” being a curse word 15 years ago, to pretty much everyone being a clone… your Ashley Kafka, your Harry Osborn, your Kraven, your Ned Leeds, your Spencer Smythe, even your Ox (not to mention Ben and Kaine both running around again). It’s nuts. This needs to be addressed somehow. It’s like a stealth-third clone saga.

[Frontier]

I never thought we would go from “clone” being a curse word 15 years ago, to pretty much everyone being a clone… your Ashley Kafka, your Harry Osborn, your Kraven, your Ned Leeds, your Spencer Smythe, even your Ox (not to mention Ben and Kaine both running around again). It’s nuts. This needs to be addressed somehow. It’s like a stealth-third clone saga.

At this point it'll be a question of which members of the cast are clones and which aren't .

Secret Invasion II: The Clone Saga.

[Hypestyle]

sigh... which Kraven is this?

The original guy, Resurrected? Is it his "son"? Natural born? Clone?

I can't keep up at this point.

I never thought we would go from “clone” being a curse word 15 years ago, to pretty much everyone being a clone… your Ashley Kafka, your Harry Osborn, your Kraven, your Ned Leeds, your Spencer Smythe, even your Ox (not to mention Ben and Kaine both running around again). It’s nuts. This needs to be addressed somehow. It’s like a stealth-third clone saga.

yep. but it won't be addressed.

[Spiderfan001]

sigh... which Kraven is this?

The original guy, Resurrected? Is it his "son"? Natural born? Clone?

I can't keep up at this point.

yep. but it won't be addressed.

It's a cloned son IIRC, although it's been a hot second so maybe someone else can confirm

[David Walton]

It's the Kraven clone from HUNTED.

It is weird that he talks like the original though.

Last we saw of Kraven Jr. he wanted revenge on Spider-Man for his father's death.

Now we he seems to have a complicated relationship with Spider-Man, wanting to "awaken" him.

Not complaining, I like the dynamic, but I hope there's some explanation as to what went on in the interim.

[Sr. Bungle]

Maybe it has something to do with what he did to Wolverine and Deadpool?

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

At this point it'll be a question of which members of the cast are clones and which aren't .

Secret Invasion II: The Clone Saga.

"So, a bunch of you are clones."
"Sure are."
"And it's kinda like you stealth infiltrated all corners of the world."
"Yup."
"So do you guys have like a shared god or something that would be very bad for us if you banded together and did SOMETHING with it?"
"No, not really."
"Really?"
"Yeah, we just stick around enjoying a 2nd chance even if we're biologically copied over from our original bodies."
"Huh. Not so bad."
"Yeah."
"Definitely worth sticking through 8 issues and a load of tie-ins about this matter, though!"
[The End]

[exile001]

"So, a bunch of you are clones."
"Sure are."
"And it's kinda like you stealth infiltrated all corners of the world."
"Yup."
"So do you guys have like a shared god or something that would be very bad for us if you banded together and did SOMETHING with it?"
"No, not really."
"Really?"
"Yeah, we just stick around enjoying a 2nd chance even if we're biologically copied over from our original bodies."
"Huh. Not so bad."
"Yeah."
"Definitely worth sticking through 8 issues and a load of tie-ins about this matter, though!"
[The End]

Dang, Secret invasion was bad. What a load of build up for 8 issues of absolutely nothing. I guess Wasp died for a bit. Kinda. Lol.

[exile001]

1) I wonder to what degree Marcus is "in" on whatever is going on with Beyond and their likely nefariousness. I can't decide whether I want him to be good or bad. He's a fun character, nevertheless.

3) Is the supposed "firmware update" actually doing something to Ben? Is it the cause of any and all memories Ben may be having with his memory?

4) Maybe it's the 90s Clone Saga Reader in me, but when Ben gives his little speech to Marcus about being his own man, I can't help but wonder whether the writer is laughing somewhere.

This is the stuff that's really interesting me with this run, along with the suspicion that maybe Ben isn't the Ben we think he is. Very much thinking the memory loss is Beyond tinkering with him in the updates. That or he's being disintegrated/reconstituted during the light show of the upgrades and each time they recreate him he loses a little more of himself.

I find Marcus really likable, so it'll hit harder if he is revealed as a big bad.

"ben" is actually spidercide confirmed

That would be an interesting twist and the rate they're going I think it'd be pretty well received (by those who remember him).

There are people on this board who genuinely think Spidercide isn't one of the worst characters in Spider-man history. But I don't think any character is so awful they're beyond redemption so if that's the route they're going I think it could make a decent story.

Especially if by the it end 'Cide remembers who he really is and we get an awesome battle in which Peter, Ben and Kaine come together to fight him.

[HypnoHustler]

This is the stuff that's really interesting me with this run, along with the suspicion that maybe Ben isn't the Ben we think he is. Very much thinking the memory loss is Beyond tinkering with him in the updates. That or he's being disintegrated/reconstituted during the light show of the upgrades and each time they recreate him he loses a little more of himself.

I find Marcus really likable, so it'll hit harder if he is revealed as a big bad.



That would be an interesting twist and the rate they're going I think it'd be pretty well received (by those who remember him).

There are people on this board who genuinely think Spidercide isn't one of the worst characters in Spider-man history. But I don't think any character is so awful they're beyond redemption so if that's the route they're going I think it could make a decent story.

Especially if by the it end 'Cide remembers who he really is and we get an awesome battle in which Peter, Ben and Kaine come together to fight him.

If Spencer could make Kindred be the Stacy twins (arguably more hated than Spidercide) then anything is possible.

EDIT: I just remembered that if the Chris Yost Kaine Scarlet Spider series got a third year, Spidercide was going to come back.

[boots]

i mean...it might explain the gap in his memories? and why he seems to need to relearn how to use his powers?

i threw it out there partly as a joke, but also partly because i wrote a fanfic just like that when i was a kid. it was heavily inspired by the return of barry allen and imaginatively called the return of ben reilly. . just like how "barry" in that turned out to be an amnesiac reverse flash, my riff was a spidercide who now honestly believed he was ben. the big difference was that spidercide genuinely wanted redemption but couldn't override his jackal programming.

if they did go that route and had him be ben that would explain all his weird behaviour during the clone conspiracy and PAD's run and also clear the room for the return of "actual ben".

convoluted? not much more than anything else in the funny books.



@hypnohustler did yost ever reveal his plans with spidercide? i think you could do one really interesting story with him but then you'd want to kill him off or send him back to limbo.

[HypnoHustler]

i mean...it might explain the gap in his memories? and why he seems to need to relearn how to use his powers?

i threw it out there partly as a joke, but also partly because i wrote a fanfic just like that when i was a kid. it was heavily inspired by the return of barry allen and imaginatively called the return of ben reilly. . just like how "barry" in that turned out to be an amnesiac reverse flash, my riff was a spidercide who now honestly believed he was ben. the big difference was that spidercide genuinely wanted redemption but couldn't override his jackal programming.

if they did go that route and had him be ben that would explain all his weird behaviour during the clone conspiracy and PAD's run and also clear the room for the return of "actual ben".

convoluted? not much more than anything else in the funny books.



@hypnohustler did yost ever reveal his plans with spidercide? i think you could do one really interesting story with him but then you'd want to kill him off or send him back to limbo.

A little. Jackal was going to do battle against Mr Sinister in a storyline called ‘Clone Wars.’ Apparently Spidercide would be involved (this was hinted at in an earlier 2-parter storyline in which Kaine and SpOck teamed up to take on Jackal).

[Spiderfan001]

I just want to see Kaine and Spidercide here in any shape or form tbh.Specially Kaine

Unlikely via solicits but here's hoping