Fox' Quicksilver vs MCU Makkari

[big_adventure]

He's faster than any live action speedster.

Well, Snyder Cut Flash (please don't make me talk about the stupidity, I'll throw up in my mouth) is FTL. Smallville Clark, Bart and Brainy are around lightspeed, which is faster than Fox Quicky. Same for Lois & Clark Supes - he's also at least lightsped.

[Anarchist]

By scaling alone, I also think CW Flash is at least around his level by now (even discounting the Nuke feat). It's just that his effects are infinitely inferior, and the show's often times dumb writing doesn't do him any favours either, even though the CIS got a lot better over the years.

[big_adventure]

By scaling alone, I also think CW Flash is at least around his level by now (even discounting the Nuke feat). It's just that his effects are infinitely inferior, and the show's often times dumb writing doesn't do him any favours either, even though the CIS got a lot better over the years.

I try not to count or overly think about CW Flash, given how often normal humans completely knock him out of blitzes, throughout the series. The only thing worse then their handling of speed is their handling of relationships.

[Anarchist]

No argument there, but dumb writing doesn't factor here. I mean, by feats alone, there is Savitar in Season 3 who is so fast that he appears throughout the entire city at once. And Barry has long surpassed him by now.

[Siriel]

No argument there, but dumb writing doesn't factor here. I mean, by feats alone, there is Savitar in Season 3 who is so fast that he appears throughout the entire city at once. And Barry has long surpassed him by now.

That was Savitar in the Speedforce, not Savitar as a normal speedster.

[choptop]

Well, Snyder Cut Flash (please don't make me talk about the stupidity, I'll throw up in my mouth) is FTL. Smallville Clark, Bart and Brainy are around lightspeed, which is faster than Fox Quicky. Same for Lois & Clark Supes - he's also at least lightsped.

Forgot about SC flash but I think I'd still put QS over the others in speed.

[Twickster]

QS hurt apocalypse I'd put him over the deviants so I'd say QS can hurt her just fine.

An Apocalypse who was standing still. As mentioned, QS only hits hard because of momentum, he doesn't have superstrength. If Makarri is also going at speed QS will be hitting with a *lot* less force. Force that will be going against durability that takes Ikaris eyebeams to the chest and walk it off.

Makarri was also hurting Ikaris. That's quite up there as far as hitting force is concerned.

Basically, both of them will be hitting with speed enhanced strikes. Both of them hit hard. However, Makarri with her durability can afford to make a mistake. QS simply can't. He's a demonstrated glass cannon, as seen in his own fight with Apocalypse. One injury, one mistake, and he's down.

[Twickster]

So, anyone care to make an estimate of QS's speed here? I know its only possible via calcs, but that's where we are. We would know relative speed of the combatants at least.

[choptop]

An Apocalypse who was standing still. As mentioned, QS only hits hard because of momentum, he doesn't have superstrength. If Makarri is also going at speed QS will be hitting with a *lot* less force. Force that will be going against durability that takes Ikaris eyebeams to the chest and walk it off.

Makarri was also hurting Ikaris. That's quite up there as far as hitting force is concerned.

Basically, both of them will be hitting with speed enhanced strikes. Both of them hit hard. However, Makarri with her durability can afford to make a mistake. QS simply can't. He's a demonstrated glass cannon, as seen in his own fight with Apocalypse. One injury, one mistake, and he's down.

Some of the deviants survived Hits from the eyebeams so I don't think that's puts her over that much I also don't think she was really hurting ikaris that much he seemed more annoyed then anything I believe QS can just were her down because he is faster.

[Twickster]

I keep seeing the claim that Quicksilver is faster - might be good to have a Calc to back it up.

Also, as noted, QS only hits hard because of momentum, which *reduces* the closer in relative speed both objects go. It is not fair nor accurate to judge QS's hitting power against an immobile object as doing the same force as an object going at an appreciable amount of speed he is.

[big_adventure]

I keep seeing the claim that Quicksilver is faster - might be good to have a Calc to back it up.

Also, as noted, QS only hits hard because of momentum, which *reduces* the closer in relative speed both objects go. It is not fair nor accurate to judge QS's hitting power against an immobile object as doing the same force as an object going at an appreciable amount of speed he is.

I did a breakdown on this in another thread. Makkari's "find the Celestial" charge was brilliantly fast. Something in the range of 4 or 5% of the speed of light.

But Quicksilver's X-Mansion scene is faster. When he's in, I'll call it "casual slow time speed" he's massively, dramatically faster than the giant explosion building in the mansion. He is so much faster that he takes significant amounts of time to just screw around (messing with kid's hair, feeding the dog a pizza, saving a goldfish, etc.), despite checking every square inch of the mansion for people (at least of the places that have not already exploded, but he saved people who were less than, I dunno, 50m from the blast, several of them, so...). The truly ridiculous stuff is when it shows him in a room in the process of exploding then he grabs someone, ZIPS them at least 500m outside and himself straight back all in a tiny fraction of time inside the slowed down time. It's not just the people that he saves, it's also the fact that he searches everywhere in the mansion, inside of cabinets, under desks, all in, again, a small fraction of a second. And he had no advance knowledge of the mansion, clearly, given that he didn't know where it was (he had the business card in his hand to find the address).

And momentum does not AT ALL reduce the closer in speeds the objects are. It can massively INCREASE, if they are moving towards each other. Quicksilver throws kids a kilometre with a casual gesture.

[Twickster]

And momentum does not AT ALL reduce the closer in speeds the objects are. It can massively INCREASE, if they are moving towards each other. Quicksilver throws kids a kilometre with a casual gesture.

This is *not* a point for Quicksilver. Makkari has enhanced durability, Quicksilver does not. This just makes it even more imperative that QS does not get hit, ever, or he's turned into a smear.

And, again, it might be helpful to have actual calcs for QS's speed. Knowing Makkari's speed is straightforward given its a simple (measurable) distance over time.

And momentum does not AT ALL reduce the closer in speeds the objects are. It can massively INCREASE, if they are moving towards each other. Quicksilver throws kids a kilometre with a casual gesture.

If they are moving in a similar direction, then yes it does, absolutely. The point is, any evidence that Quicksilver massively outspeeds Makkari to the extent that she's unable to react at all? Because if she is able to react in some kind of relativistic fashion, then yes, that force is going to be reduced if she wants it to be. Or massively increased, if they slam into each other from opposite directions, in which case, I would bet on the one with enhanced durability vs. one without who is going to be turned into a smear.

[big_adventure]

This is *not* a point for Quicksilver. Makkari has enhanced durability, Quicksilver does not. This just makes it even more imperative that QS does not get hit, ever, or he's turned into a smear.

And, again, it might be helpful to have actual calcs for QS's speed. Knowing Makkari's speed is straightforward given its a simple (measurable) distance over time.



If they are moving in a similar direction, then yes it does, absolutely. The point is, any evidence that Quicksilver massively outspeeds Makkari to the extent that she's unable to react at all? Because if she is able to react in some kind of relativistic fashion, then yes, that force is going to be reduced if she wants it to be. Or massively increased, if they slam into each other from opposite directions, in which case, I would bet on the one with enhanced durability vs. one without who is going to be turned into a smear.

I don't think you understand what a 2 or 3x speed edge means in a punch up. Quicky is fast enough, at least by what I've seen, to never get hit by Makkari. And she isn't quick enough to significantly move away from him if he's punching, kicking, or simply throwing her into the walls of the arena.

You also keep saying that he doesn't have enhanced striking force, but he's repeatedly shown MASSIVE striking force as well as other strength feats (throwing kids a km, for example).

If you train to fight, you learn to try not to avoid punches by pulling straight away from them - it makes the impact worse if they hit. That is with fighters of roughly equal speed. Someone who is a couple of times faster and quicker than you are? You wouldn't even have the chance to do this, and if you did, it would be worthless and would likely cause you to lose balance.

You are just underselling what Quicksilver can do here.

[Twickster]

So, again, calcs for Quicksilver's speed, exactly?

[Twickster]

I don't think you understand what a 2 or 3x speed edge means in a punch up. Quicky is fast enough, at least by what I've seen, to never get hit by Makkari. And she isn't quick enough to significantly move away from him if he's punching, kicking, or simply throwing her into the walls of the arena.

You also keep saying that he doesn't have enhanced striking force, but he's repeatedly shown MASSIVE striking force as well as other strength feats (throwing kids a km, for example).

If you train to fight, you learn to try not to avoid punches by pulling straight away from them - it makes the impact worse if they hit. That is with fighters of roughly equal speed. Someone who is a couple of times faster and quicker than you are? You wouldn't even have the chance to do this, and if you did, it would be worthless and would likely cause you to lose balance.

You are just underselling what Quicksilver can do here.

"Underselling" what Quicksilver can do is impossible since nobody's been able to present hard numbers on what they think his speed actually is. Its only conjecture and opinion on how cool the slow-mo is at this point, and you know as well as I that Rumbles doesn't operate on conjecture.

So what about those calcs?

Also:

You also keep saying that he doesn't have enhanced striking force, but he's repeatedly shown MASSIVE striking force as well as other strength feats (throwing kids a km, for example).

I keep saying he only has enhanced striking force because of his momentum against objects without a similar degree of superspeed, and consequently would have less striking force against something that moves at an appreciable fraction of the speed he is going. In short, he hits hard because he is faster than what he's hitting, not because he's super strong. This is a point I have never deviated from. Or are you actually claiming that Quicksilver actually has superstrength as well?