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  1. #46
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    He's faster than she is by a fair margin. In that scene, everything is in such slow time that a sci-fi powerplant explosion capable of destroying a gigantic mansion nearly instantly is almost not moving, and the people are absolute statues. He's wandering around casually, then will grab someone and take them 500m away, then run back, all in a fraction of a second in that crazy ass slow time.

    For the sake of argument, let's say that the explosion wave is expanding at 500m/s, which is a lot, but it's not at all ridiculous given the nature of the source and the effect it has (totally annihilating the gigantic mansion and destroying everything for a decent radius around the mansion as well). Quicksilver grabs people, runs them 500m away through corridors and everything else, and makes it all the way back in the time that fragments of the explosion move less than a half-meter. He does this casually, never really looking like he's straining. So, he's covering 1000m or so in at most 1/1000th of a second.

    He's therefore moving at least 1,000,000 meters per second just on those back and forth trips. And he does this all while screwing around. Extrapolating further, he searches every inch (it shows him looking in cabinets and closets and stuff) of the massive mansion (the complex has to be a, I dunno, 50 thousand square meters - given accomodations, classroms, labs, training stuff above and underground, etc.) when he's clearly never been there before. He makes, I dunno, 40 or 50 back and forth 1km runs with people, saves all of the others with throws into drapes or lakes, all in substantially less than a second. That alone puts him comfortably above Makkari. It's a silly feat, but it's absolutely consistent with the guy' presentation, and it's not like he's ever not been fast enough.

    But wait! There's more! This explosion is an energy blast, and releases a significant amount of heat. Heat propagates as infrared primarily, and, hang on, how fast does that go again? Because at the beginning of the rescue, he runs into the mansion, searches enough to find the center of the blast, and is standing there, screwing around, moving pieces of it away (which are stuck in place relative to him, again, still just playing here) all while those terrible energies are there, moving at the speed of light, and he doesn't so much as singe a hair. The only way that happens is if he's a very high fraction of lightspeed.

    He's fast enough that she won't see him coming, and won't be capable of doing anything to reduce the edge his speed gives him against her.

    That's my take, anyway.
    So, I still don't see an exact claim from you on Quicksilver's speed (i.e. how much, exactly, do you think his speed is, in numbers terms?).

    Because from the very comprehensive calculations in this video (which, among others, includes the detonation velocity/speed of the expanding explosion, the size of the building the X-Mansion is based on (which, as it is shot in a real castle, is completely knowable); the exact number of times he is shown onscreen going in-and-out of the mansion (counted, 26 times); the distance he deposits the people from inside to outside, doubled the distance of travel to get back in again (200 meters in and out), etc.) his speed is in the range of mach 3,500.

    If you recall, a simple back of the envelope calculation of Makarri's speed feat is mach 5,000.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric of Hell’s Brigade View Post
    https://youtu.be/_ntMteVqdkk

    Maybe this link would help calc QS?
    But wait! There's more! This explosion is an energy blast, and releases a significant amount of heat. Heat propagates as infrared primarily, and, hang on, how fast does that go again? Because at the beginning of the rescue, he runs into the mansion, searches enough to find the center of the blast, and is standing there, screwing around, moving pieces of it away (which are stuck in place relative to him, again, still just playing here) all while those terrible energies are there, moving at the speed of light, and he doesn't so much as singe a hair. The only way that happens is if he's a very high fraction of lightspeed.
    Yeah, no. On this physics does not operate the way you think it does, because of the insulative properties of an atmosphere. Heat does not radiate outwards from an explosion at the speed of light, as you seem to think. Not that the heat would be the major danger involved in such an explosion anyway instead of the actual explosive force of the explosion (which the video also mentions, average detonation velocity of substances is 23,000 ft/s). In short, avoiding that explosion takes nowhere near the speed of light.
    Last edited by Twickster; 01-15-2022 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #47
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Without touching the rest of the calcs, just wanted to flag this bit:

    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    But wait! There's more! This explosion is an energy blast, and releases a significant amount of heat. Heat propagates as infrared primarily, and, hang on, how fast does that go again? Because at the beginning of the rescue, he runs into the mansion, searches enough to find the center of the blast, and is standing there, screwing around, moving pieces of it away (which are stuck in place relative to him, again, still just playing here) all while those terrible energies are there, moving at the speed of light, and he doesn't so much as singe a hair. The only way that happens is if he's a very high fraction of lightspeed.
    Heat only travels via infrared radiation at lightspeed in a vacuum, for example in the sun to the earth. On our planet, it would have to travel through the air via heat conduction and oxygen and nitrogen are both bad conductors of heat therefore it would be a heck of a lot slower.

    It would radiate via infrared /behind the blast wave/ because the blast wave would have pushed all the air directly in its path away but we see Quicksilver specifically stay ahead of the blast wave at all times.

    There is a calc to be done for his speed but I think big is being quite generous in his assessment here.
    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 01-15-2022 at 09:02 AM.
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  3. #48
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Blitzed by Twickster haha.
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  4. #49
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Without touching the rest of the calcs, just wanted to flag this bit:



    Heat only travels via infrared radiation at lightspeed in a vacuum, for example in the sun to the earth. On our planet, it would have to travel through the air via heat conduction and oxygen and nitrogen are both bad conductors of heat.

    It would radiate via infrared /behind the blast wave/ because the blast wave would have pushed all the air directly in its path away but we see Quicksilver specifically stay ahead of the blast wave at all times.

    There is a calc to be done for his speed but I think big is being quite generous in his assessment here.
    This, exactly.

  5. #50
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Without touching the rest of the calcs, just wanted to flag this bit:



    Heat only travels via infrared radiation at lightspeed in a vacuum, for example in the sun to the earth. On our planet, it would have to travel through the air via heat conduction and oxygen and nitrogen are both bad conductors of heat therefore it would be a heck of a lot slower.

    It would radiate via infrared /behind the blast wave/ because the blast wave would have pushed all the air directly in its path away but we see Quicksilver specifically stay ahead of the blast wave at all times.

    There is a calc to be done for his speed but I think big is being quite generous in his assessment here.
    No, infrared radiation and the associated heat transfer happens in and out of the atmosphere. Read up what constitutes a nuclear pulse, for example: searing heat due to IR at nearly the speed of light, THEN the blast wave well behind that. The atmosphere will absorb some of it, but not all of it, and certainly not all of it that close, given that Quicksilver arrives less than 50m from the start of the explosion. Now, heat ALSO travels by conduction and convection through the atmoshere, but one doesn't suddenly eliminate the other. And the speed of IR through air is actually pretty close to the speed of light. Over a long enough distance, all IR will be translated into waste heat conducted by the atmosphere, but that distance is much longer than 50m or so.

    As for Twikster's video, I don't think it's a fair analysis, since it doesn't allow for how he zip steps inside of the slow-time we're already watching, and how he does all of this without really trying. He's literally moonwalking around the mansion at one point. Takes the time to mess up a kid's hair. Drinks someone's Tab. Saves a goldfish. Saves a dog and it's stolen pizza. It also doesn't give nearly enough credit for him searching the entire mansion, which we know he does because a) he's sure he got everybody out (not knowing that Alex had asploded before he arrived on scene) and b) it shows him looking in closets and under counters. My tiny parisien apartment takes 5 seconds to walk across but 15 minutes to search every nook and cranny, and I know all of them. He'd never been to the gigantic mansion before, yet casually searches it, while saving loads of people, often in creative ways. Makkari simply doesn't have anything at that level.
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  6. #51
    Voice of the Authorities Cleric of Hellís Brigade's Avatar
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    Actually, the video does say QS is probably faster as we never see him try hard. It’s just the calc’s are for what we actually saw.

    The calcs put him slower than Makkari (if Twickeraters calcs are accurate). Trying hard Peter is faster most likely than what was shown. All things being equal, we’ll be generous and say trying hard Peter bridges the gap and he and Makkari are the same speed (Mach 5000 or thereabouts).

    That leaves a significantly more durable thousands of years old fighter vs a street punk essentially.
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  7. #52
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    I'd be cool with both of them having comparable speed myself, all things considered. Which, given everything else, gives a solid win to Makkari.

  8. #53
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleric of Hell’s Brigade View Post
    Actually, the video does say QS is probably faster as we never see him try hard. It’s just the calc’s are for what we actually saw.

    The calcs put him slower than Makkari (if Twickeraters calcs are accurate). Trying hard Peter is faster most likely than what was shown. All things being equal, we’ll be generous and say trying hard Peter bridges the gap and he and Makkari are the same speed (Mach 5000 or thereabouts).

    That leaves a significantly more durable thousands of years old fighter vs a street punk essentially.
    There is another calc video out there that pegs him at like 25k the speed of sound as well, IIRC. Most calc videos leave me a bit limp.
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