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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Some people have said the same thing in the BP thread. It's different but that doesn't mean it's bad. Just about every BP solo writer tries to give him their own voice.
    I think it was just the informality, not so much what he was saying. When Ridley had T’Challa critiquing democracy and justifying his actions it felt like he captured his voice really well. I thought his convo with Akili was well executed too. But when he’s quipping to Doctor Strange and talking with Omolola like they’re day ones it felt kinda off. Not bad but not quite T’Challa. I don’t think he shouldn’t crack jokes or talk informally, it’s just the context felt a bit weird.

    But overall I thought the issue was strong. Dialogue heavy but it did a solid job of setting up a bunch of cool story beats so I’m fine because it looks like we’re in for some great characterization down the road. Where Wakandan democracy in the previous run was looked at as a panacea for all the problems in the kingdom, Ridley is deciding not to center a Western worldview and exploring the complications the institution can bring. We get a really different portrayal of T’Challa that’s more in line with his traditional depictions under Priest and Hudlin, as the character juggles his evolving place in the MU and the immeasurable paranoia and egoism that drives him.

    The main plot thread is compelling and definitely has implications on the wider MU if other books care enough to explore them (namely T’Challa’s relationship with the Avengers as chairman and Wakanda-Krakoa relations.) The side characters are also interesting, from the PM to Omolola to Akili. I honestly didn’t expect much out of Ridley’s Shuri based on the current direction Marvel seems hellbent on taking the character but I hope he turns it around in future issues. The art was serviceable, Cabal shines in action scenes and paneling but the issue doesn’t take advantage of that to the fullest extent. His backgrounds were a bit weak too. Also felt T’Challa’s reaction to his friend’s death was a bit artificial considering the character didn’t exist before this issue and thus they had no real connection other than what we’re told. But altogether a great issue and a much needed change from the dreck we were getting before IMO.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I think it was just the informality, not so much what he was saying. When Ridley had T’Challa critiquing democracy and justifying his actions it felt like he captured his voice really well. I thought his convo with Akili was well executed too. But when he’s quipping to Doctor Strange and talking with Omolola like they’re day ones it felt kinda off. Not bad but not quite T’Challa. I don’t think he shouldn’t crack jokes or talk informally, it’s just the context felt a bit weird.

    But overall I thought the issue was strong. Dialogue heavy but it did a solid job of setting up a bunch of cool story beats so I’m fine because it looks like we’re in for some great characterization down the road. Where Wakandan democracy in the previous run was looked at as a panacea for all the problems in the kingdom, Ridley is deciding not to center a Western worldview and exploring the complications the institution can bring. We get a really different portrayal of T’Challa that’s more in line with his traditional depictions under Priest and Hudlin, as the character juggles his evolving place in the MU and the immeasurable paranoia and egoism that drives him.

    The main plot thread is compelling and definitely has implications on the wider MU if other books care enough to explore them (namely T’Challa’s relationship with the Avengers as chairman and Wakanda-Krakoa relations.) The side characters are also interesting, from the PM to Omolola to Akili. I honestly didn’t expect much out of Ridley’s Shuri based on the current direction Marvel seems hellbent on taking the character but I hope he turns it around in future issues. The art was serviceable, Cabal shines in action scenes and paneling but the issue doesn’t take advantage of that to the fullest extent. His backgrounds were a bit weak too. Also felt T’Challa’s reaction to his friend’s death was a bit artificial considering the character didn’t exist before this issue and thus they had no real connection other than what we’re told. But altogether a great issue and a much needed change from the dreck we were getting before IMO.
    I think the casualness of T'Challa is what may catch some people off guard. I think that we're so used to seeing T'Challa as reserved- playing his cards closed to the vest, stoic -that when we see a looser, more relaxed T'Challa is seems different.

    Introducing new characters and introducing a plot that supposedly existed prior to the relaunch(but with in-canon precedent) can be off-setting but this is infinitely better than what was before.

    And Ridley actually managed to keep some of Coates story beats and make them better.

  3. #18
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    I'd have preferred the Prime Minister be condescending towards T'Challa but she chose to be arrogant and it wasn't explained why she was acting that way?

    Another part that I enjoyed is the head of secret service's philosophy protecting Wakandans without telling them how, for their own good lol!

    I chuckled a bit at T'Challa's commentary on democracy and that he has safeguards against it to make sure it doesn't destroy his country. In my opinion that is very smart.

    I hope Ridley doesn't drop these stories. I want to know how the power structure of Wakanda works now. Next I want to see how the tribes are incorporated in this structure
    Last edited by Tofali; 11-27-2021 at 07:11 PM.
    "Dedra Meero is not just a woman in a men’s world, but a fascist in a world of fascists.” - Denise Gough

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bozack View Post
    Excellent read. Does anyone feel like T’Challa’s dialogue was out of character? I’m seeing that complaint online.
    They're probably upset that he didn't cry in anguish to one of the females in his life, then proceed to slip a fade to himself. I missed the T'Challa with confident masculine energy. Truthfully I thought it was petty how he was being clicked on at that council meeting.

  5. #20
    Old-School Otaku DigiCom's Avatar
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    I'll just copy what I said in the main thread:

    I think what bugged me the most are these things:

    1. A good chunk of the book is people scolding T'Challa for his actions.
      • The Parliament, for him acting like a king.
      • Cap, for him not spending enough time leading the Avengers
      • Shuri, for him having the sheer GALL to have undercover agents (which is rather hypocritical, given that she created PRIDE). And I didn't see people shocked when they saw the War Dogs do the EXACT SAME THING in the movie.
    2. The whole sleeper agent thing is poorly executed. Am I to believe T'Challa could only find 10 Wakandans to go into deep cover, (one a close friend) and two of them broke protocol to get busy? It makes the whole plan sort of WTF.
    3. Making the dead sleeper just HAPPEN to be an old friend of his, so that we can get a scene of him breaking down in tears? I've seen enough Sad Panther.

    Maybe I am too cynical. But I miss a competent T'Challa.

  6. #21
    Fantastic Member Marvel Wars's Avatar
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    Yes THANK YOU !! FINALLY a thread ONLY about the comics !

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I'll just copy what I said in the main thread:

    I think what bugged me the most are these things:

    1. A good chunk of the book is people scolding T'Challa for his actions.
      • The Parliament, for him acting like a king.
      • Cap, for him not spending enough time leading the Avengers
      • Shuri, for him having the sheer GALL to have undercover agents (which is rather hypocritical, given that she created PRIDE). And I didn't see people shocked when they saw the War Dogs do the EXACT SAME THING in the movie.
    2. The whole sleeper agent thing is poorly executed. Am I to believe T'Challa could only find 10 Wakandans to go into deep cover, (one a close friend) and two of them broke protocol to get busy? It makes the whole plan sort of WTF.
    3. Making the dead sleeper just HAPPEN to be an old friend of his, so that we can get a scene of him breaking down in tears? I've seen enough Sad Panther.

    Maybe I am too cynical. But I miss a competent T'Challa.
    I thought this too, why would he have like only 10 total?? If you told me those 10 are superhuman, or tech enhanced maybe I get it. At this point when are we going to see how Wakanda military weaponizes mutants and enhanced citizens for the good of their nation if anything, just to add some flare to the narrative.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    I thought this too, why would he have like only 10 total?? If you told me those 10 are superhuman, or tech enhanced maybe I get it. At this point when are we going to see how Wakanda military weaponizes mutants and enhanced citizens for the good of their nation if anything, just to add some flare to the narrative.
    T’Challa describes them as his best agents and in Rise of the BP (written during the Coates era that informs most of the current run) Wakanda is stated to have a whole intelligence agency (I forgot the name). So I don’t think these 10 spies are necessarily all they have.

    Jhai, Omolola, and the others are just a division tasked with a special job within the wider Wakandan spy network, where they take on a more aggressive, preemptive duty. Since the focus is on guerrilla warfare they don’t necessarily need to be super powered, just armed with really effective stealth tech for hit and run attacks. It wouldn’t surprise me if they’re more skilled than the Hatut Zeraze in black ops but probably couldn’t beat the Dora Milaje in a straight up fight, that’s not their role. Kinda like how Black Widow is far less powerful than Thor but she’s better equipped to infiltrate and dismantle threats in a clandestine way. These agents should be the opposite of flare.

    I have 0 interest in seeing Wakandan mutants. The only reason I’m ok with it for Gentle is because it looks like he’s gonna help T’Challa get payback for X of Swords.
    Last edited by chief12d; 11-28-2021 at 08:52 AM.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Vanguard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    T’Challa describes them as his best agents and in Rise of the BP (written during the Coates era that informs most of the current run) Wakanda is stated to have a whole intelligence agency (I forgot the name). So I don’t think these 10 spies are necessarily all they have.

    Jhai, Omolola, and the others are just a division tasked with a special job within the wider Wakandan spy network, where they take on a more aggressive, preemptive duty. Since the focus is on guerrilla warfare they don’t necessarily need to be super powered, just armed with really effective stealth tech for hit and run attacks. It wouldn’t surprise me if they’re more skilled than the Hatut Zeraze in black ops but probably couldn’t beat the Dora Milaje in a straight up fight, that’s not their role. Kinda like how Black Widow is far less powerful than Thor but she’s better equipped to infiltrate and dismantle threats in a clandestine way. These agents should be the opposite of flare.

    I have 0 interest in seeing Wakandan mutants. The only reason I’m ok with it for Gentle is because it looks like he’s gonna help T’Challa get payback for X of Swords.

    I think it would be good to have a few Wakandan mutants. You got Vibraxas and Gentle, one or two more would be a nice addition, but you don’t need too many.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    I think it would be good to have a few Wakandan mutants. You got Vibraxas and Gentle, one or two more would be a nice addition, but you don’t need too many.
    Vibraxas isn't a mutant, he's a vibranium mutate. Gentle is an X-character first and foremost, his only reason for existing is to **** on Wakanda and Ridley's run is potentially the first time someone's actually having the guy reconcile with his heritage without the X-Office demonizing the BP franchise. We also had Muti introduced in that godawful Shuri book and I admit he was cool.

    That's more than enough imo, I'd much rather see more characters like Vibraxas, who get their powers from the actual BP mythos and who have a very low probability of being turned into rivals/enemies. Nearly every time mutants get involved with BP-related stuff, Wakandans die and/or T'Challa looks stupid. They aren't needed to make the franchise interesting.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    I'd have preferred the Prime Minister be condescending towards T'Challa but she chose to be arrogant and it wasn't explained why she was acting that way?

    Another part that I enjoyed is the head of secret service's philosophy protecting Wakandans without telling them how, for their own good lol!

    I chuckled a bit at T'Challa's commentary on democracy and that he has safeguards against it to make sure it doesn't destroy his country. In my opinion that is very smart.

    I hope Ridley doesn't drop these stories. I want to know how the power structure of Wakanda works now. Next I want to see how the tribes are incorporated in this structure
    It was good to see T'Challa voice his opinions and not just fall in line behind the change in gov't. PM Folasade looks like someone who is going to be around for a while during this run and I wouldn't be surprised if she winds up becoming T'Challa's new LI.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    I thought this too, why would he have like only 10 total?? If you told me those 10 are superhuman, or tech enhanced maybe I get it. At this point when are we going to see how Wakanda military weaponizes mutants and enhanced citizens for the good of their nation if anything, just to add some flare to the narrative.
    I thought there would be more sleepers as well. I guess Ridley didn't want to go overkill with this and have T'Challa running around to save hundreds of agents. That would have dragged the story down. I think 20-25 maybe would have been an ideal number.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    T’Challa describes them as his best agents and in Rise of the BP (written during the Coates era that informs most of the current run) Wakanda is stated to have a whole intelligence agency (I forgot the name). So I don’t think these 10 spies are necessarily all they have.

    Jhai, Omolola, and the others are just a division tasked with a special job within the wider Wakandan spy network, where they take on a more aggressive, preemptive duty. Since the focus is on guerrilla warfare they don’t necessarily need to be super powered, just armed with really effective stealth tech for hit and run attacks. It wouldn’t surprise me if they’re more skilled than the Hatut Zeraze in black ops but probably couldn’t beat the Dora Milaje in a straight up fight, that’s not their role. Kinda like how Black Widow is far less powerful than Thor but she’s better equipped to infiltrate and dismantle threats in a clandestine way. These agents should be the opposite of flare.

    I have 0 interest in seeing Wakandan mutants. The only reason I’m ok with it for Gentle is because it looks like he’s gonna help T’Challa get payback for X of Swords.
    I agree with the notion that there are other spies/agents running around and that these 10 have a very critical mission. I don't mind other Wakandan mutants al long as they aren't creations of the X-office and are created by BP writers in the BP solo. And they should want no part of Krakoa since they are well protected in Wakanda.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    It was good to see T'Challa voice his opinions and not just fall in line behind the change in gov't. PM Folasade looks like someone who is going to be around for a while during this run and I wouldn't be surprised if she winds up becoming T'Challa's new LI.
    That'd be weird but interesting lol, a recently demoted king dating his people's highest elected official isn't a good look. But there's a lot of drama to mine if they tried to keep it on the low. Omolola also isn't the best option either since that's his friend's girlfriend. But if Ridley wanted to show this is a "complicated" version of T'Challa that kind of pairing might drive the point home. But it'd be a dick move for sure and idk if I want T'Challa to be that sleazy.

    I'm honestly expecting Ridley to keep the romance to a minimum, just like Priest did. T'Challa may have romantic tension with several characters (we already know he's gonna meet Storm again) but with all the things he's got on his plate we may not see a LI be too prominent. At least not for now. Which I'm fine with mostly, I definitely want to move away from the circus with Ororo but I'm far more interested in T'Challa's friendships being solidified. Give me more Okoye and Akili.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That'd be weird but interesting lol, a recently demoted king dating his people's highest elected official isn't a good look. But there's a lot of drama to mine if they tried to keep it on the low. Omolola also isn't the best option either since that's his friend's girlfriend. But if Ridley wanted to show this is a "complicated" version of T'Challa that kind of pairing might drive the point home. But it'd be a dick move for sure and idk if I want T'Challa to be that sleazy.

    I'm honestly expecting Ridley to keep the romance to a minimum, just like Priest did. T'Challa may have romantic tension with several characters (we already know he's gonna meet Storm again) but with all the things he's got on his plate we may not see a LI be too prominent. At least not for now. Which I'm fine with mostly, I definitely want to move away from the circus with Ororo but I'm far more interested in T'Challa's friendships being solidified. Give me more Okoye and Akili.
    I don't think the Omolola pairing would happen, it just wouldn't feel right. Folasade on the other hand would be more interesting precisely because of the conflict. The would constantly clash with each other in the beginning but you know that tension will lead to something else down the road. It's pretty much set up for it.

    I think an Omolola/Akili pairing would be more likely if they stick around enough and become recurring characters.

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