Through the lens of HOX/POX

[Sutekh]

In general, i have grown to feel that the destruction of Genosha by Grant Morrison, both in execution and overall impact on the X-men comics, had been the worst possible developed before House of M, in how much story potential it has destroyed with it, for little to no positive gain for the franchise in general. A one-two puch of terrible developments still hurting the comics today.

If the story of Krakoa had been based instead on Genosha, it might have been very different and more palatable, IMO, tying mutant identity issues into a 'real culture' (in the setting, at least, as Genosha was always a fictional country like Latveria or Wakanda) and side-stepping a lot of the fiddly 'Krakoa grows houses and food and medicines and *teleporters* and crap now' soft retcon.

I do think it's kind of a hoot how Ike Perlmutter spent a decade trying to have the Inhumans proliferate across the MU via Terrigen Clouds and NuHumans and drink the X-Men's milkshake, only to now have the X-franchise pulling the exact opposite and doing all the nation-building, politicking and genetics council as government business that the Inhumans used to have as central themes.

It's like, "Ha! We survived, and now we're in *your* house, eating *your* porridge!"

[Spiderfan001]

If the MCU is going to go with the idea that there’s been a secret mutant nation in hiding this whole time I think they’re likely to go with them most visually distinctive one (Krakoa) to try to differentiate as much as possible from the other MCU secret nations.

Plus the idea that mutants live on a island that literally a living mutant is pretty cool.

"Even if they so Krakoa I severely doubt they'd keep most of the things on the island."

That's why I said this, they may keep the Krakoa as the island but I severely doubt stuff like The 5 and ressurection, the crucible, Mars, Arrako,etc. will be implemented in the MCU.They will change a whole lot to the point it will be more similar to Genosha/Utopia in it's functioning than Krakoa is.

I don't expect the Wolvie Jean Scott 3 way in the moon house, Shaw and Kitty/Kate Pryde sitting on a council, Xavier walking around w/ the Cerebro helmet, Moira hiding out in Krakoa, Kurt watching Apocalypse murder a girl, The X of swords stuff, etc. in the MCU

[Jackraow21]

The first thing that comes to mind is the revealed history of Apocalypse and his family. I found everything about it very interesting and entertaining to read, especially the original horsemen.

Same. Though it’s interesting that in the timeline Cable was raised in, apparently Amenth never broke through to our world again. Probably because Krakoa never happened (though Cable does have knowledge of this Krakoan age somehow; possibly due to him having traveled into the future of the timeline we’re now on at some point, which would make sense as that would seem to be where his wife, Esme, is… all grown up in the near future, waiting on him to jump back there… will be interesting to see if that’s ever revisited or that’s now a variant future as well).

But it’s been established that that future he was raised in has been averted anyway (and thus is now a defunct timeline), but I do think it’s interesting to think about in the context of what we learned about Apocalypse and his Darwinian mission to ensure that mutantkind was strong enough to face down Annihilation and its Amenthi hordes. Essentially, in looking at it through that prism, what he put Cable and the whole Summers family through was a crucible of sorts to harden them for what was to come. So that’s kind of fascinating IMO.

I’m also interested in how much Cable and Moira shared with one another when he first came back to this era and helped her build Muir Island. She was the first person he met upon coming back to this time period from the far future, and he’s a telepath. With future knowledge. Surely he knows more about Moira X and her ten lives than he’s ever let on. At least I would think so. But until that’s explored, who knows?

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

I tend to disagree for the most part while that might be the case at time but there is a numbers of big events in X-Men history that likely didn't happen in Moira's past lives or happened differently for example it was implied that Legion was engineered in life 10 for the first time so Legion creating AOA thus the effects of Dark Beast and Sugar Man have on 616 history are likely new to Moira and the way Moira wrote about her breaking Xavier suggests Onslaught might be new too and there are other things like time travelers that could cause a lot of changes so thing happen differently than they might have expected.

I'm not talking about Xavier being aware of every single little thing that would play out. Still, he basically had access to not one, but *several* partial FAQS/Walkthoughs. Sure, Moira's the Big Bad and she's been gaslighting the crap out of him, but X-Folks are going to get *pissed* at Xavier for always pulling a variant of the "I'm the kind hippie dreamer, I was stumbling through the dark like everyone else and did what I thought was best at the time, please don't be mad at me!" card.

Well, until Logan fixes/ruins everything and then it won't matter much, I suppose.

[Rev9]

"Even if they so Krakoa I severely doubt they'd keep most of the things on the island."

That's why I said this, they may keep the Krakoa as the island but I severely doubt stuff like The 5 and ressurection, the crucible, Mars, Arrako,etc. will be implemented in the MCU.They will change a whole lot to the point it will be more similar to Genosha/Utopia in it's functioning than Krakoa is.

I don't expect the Wolvie Jean Scott 3 way in the moon house, Shaw and Kitty/Kate Pryde sitting on a council, Xavier walking around w/ the Cerebro helmet, Moira hiding out in Krakoa, Kurt watching Apocalypse murder a girl, The X of swords stuff, etc. in the MCU

I think Xavier's helmet being worn all the time, can only work if cerebro is reconfigured into a miniature unit ,like Cyclops visor, but then it would aesthetically be incompatible with the comics ,so definitely in films HoX cerebro is out of the picture.I too don't think in films they'll borrow all the elements..I'm certain the five may be substituted by Krakoa just having healing gardens that regenerate tissue and restore life-force to make Krakoa a weird anomaly on earth. I doubt the council will have such a large membership ,probably 4 council members and that's it, I can see the 5 being the council with say Destiny instead of Goldballs, as the ones communing with Krakoa like some 'priesthood' and speaking for it instead of Cypher. In film(if Krakoa was brought to the screen) I still expect Magneto to lead the defence and Xavier to lead administration, but I see Emma,Shaw living among humanity coz of their addiction to power...'better rule in hell than serve in heaven' deal.Sinister would be an autonomous force, trying to get(or mimic) the secrets of Krakoa's immortality for his own designs.Apoc would probably not feature as a villain in the films as he's already appeared in Foxverse, but I can see Selene being a big bad and Exodus also being an autonomous leader of a brotherhood,using his own resurrection ability as something providentially gifted to him and not trusting Krakoa's resurrections perhaps leaving an opening for Krakoa being a Matrix style 'mutant battery' harvesting villain.

[Habis]

You know, speaking about Genosha, I can't shake the feeling that the writers are trying to make a soft retcon by way of repeating again and again and again that humans were the ones who wiped most mutants...

But it was Cassandra Nova, Xavier's sister, the one who killed most of Genosha's mutant population.

It was Wanda Maximoff, Magneto's daughter, who used her powers to depower most of the remaining mutants after the House of M event. And while she has been retconned as not a mutant and not Magneto's daughter since then, she still isn't a baseline human but a creation of the High Evolutionary, so humans aren't to blame. Also, Magneto bears part of the blame for helping traumatizing her...

The Legacy virus was created by Dyscordia, the clone of Cable, created by Rachel Summers and raised by Apocalypse, so humans are not to blame at all.

The Morlock Massacre was done by the Marauders on Mr. Sinister's orders.

The Terrigen Cloud was Blackbolt and Maximus's (two Inhumans) doing, not of humans.

Asteroid M was destroyed by Fabian Cortez.

Avalon space station was destroyed by Holocaust...

Madelyne Prior was driven to madness by Mr. Sinister's manipulations and Cyclops's abandonement becoming the Goblin Queen and making the whole Inferno thing worse...

I get the feeling that all mutants are trying VERY hard to ignore all the damage they have done to each other by diverting the blame to humans. Like, they repeat every minute "THE HUMANS DID IT!!!" to avoid stopping to think about what Mr. Sinister or Fabian Cortez or Xorn or even Cyclops did... Focusing on an external common enemy to avoid internal struggles...

From the humans' side, I think they show too little reaction to the fact that Magneto, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister and Exodus are part of Krakoa's ruling council... I don't know if human heroes and governments know much about Mr. Sinister, but the Avengers fought Exodus, Magneto has attacked Humanity several times (and they probably think that he is the one who conquered New York and tried to genocide its population during the Xorneto affair...), and Apocalypse attacked New York and used the threat of a deadly plague to try to force humans to kill 90 % of their own population... that's hard to forget... How can Susan Storm and Ben Grimm and Steve Rogers be all friendly and smiling when speaking with the X-Men anymore?

I mean, the X-Men are like "how bigoted are humans! they are trying to build weapons to fight us!", and they take APOCALYPSE and MAGNETO to Davos?! Honestly, what do they expect humans to do?

So I wonder if the writers intend to ignore all those stories and pretend none of these villains ever did anything worse than exchanging punches with some heroes...

[Rev9]

You know, speaking about Genosha, I can't shake the feeling that the writers are trying to make a soft retcon by way of repeating again and again and again that humans were the ones who wiped most mutants...

But it was Cassandra Nova, Xavier's sister, the one who killed most of Genosha's mutant population.

It was Wanda Maximoff, Magneto's daughter, who used her powers to depower most of the remaining mutants after the House of M event. And while she has been retconned as not a mutant and not Magneto's daughter since then, she still isn't a baseline human but a creation of the High Evolutionary, so humans aren't to blame. Also, Magneto bears part of the blame for helping traumatizing her...

The Legacy virus was created by Dyscordia, the clone of Cable, created by Rachel Summers and raised by Apocalypse, so humans are not to blame at all.

The Morlock Massacre was done by the Marauders on Mr. Sinister's orders.

The Terrigen Cloud was Blackbolt and Maximus's (two Inhumans) doing, not of humans.

Asteroid M was destroyed by Fabian Cortez.

Avalon space station was destroyed by Holocaust...

Madelyne Prior was driven to madness by Mr. Sinister's manipulations and Cyclops's abandonement becoming the Goblin Queen and making the whole Inferno thing worse...

I get the feeling that all mutants are trying VERY hard to ignore all the damage they have done to each other by diverting the blame to humans. Like, they repeat every minute "THE HUMANS DID IT!!!" to avoid stopping to think about what Mr. Sinister or Fabian Cortez or Xorn or even Cyclops did... Focusing on an external common enemy to avoid internal struggles...

From the humans' side, I think they show too little reaction to the fact that Magneto, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister and Exodus are part of Krakoa's ruling council... I don't know if human heroes and governments know much about Mr. Sinister, but the Avengers fought Exodus, Magneto has attacked Humanity several times (and they probably think that he is the one who conquered New York and tried to genocide its population during the Xorneto affair...), and Apocalypse attacked New York and used the threat of a deadly plague to try to force humans to kill 90 % of their own population... that's hard to forget... How can Susan Storm and Ben Grimm and Steve Rogers be all friendly and smiling when speaking with the X-Men anymore?

I mean, the X-Men are like "how bigoted are humans! they are trying to build weapons to fight us!", and they take APOCALYPSE and MAGNETO to Davos?! Honestly, what do they expect humans to do?

So I wonder if the writers intend to ignore all those stories and pretend none of these villains ever did anything worse than exchanging punches with some heroes...

Some truth bombs right here, out of all the villains the only one I give a pass is Exodus.He is no saint but I don't remember him specifically working to destroy humanity.He may not care what happens to humans caught up in the mutant war, but I don't think he wants humanity eradicated,all he cares about is mutant thriving and he wanted that in an enclave not necessarily Dark Beast's 'Tabula Rasa' model .In any case I remember him cooperating with SHIELD trying to shut down Matthew Malloy (an unstable Omega level mutant that posed a danger to the whole world) which he failed to do at the cost of his own life. Also if someone can tell me the exact issue number..that would be helpful to read the story for myself where he apparently mind controlled mutants and humans to live peacefully in Genosha I think. Anyway as a fan of his I'm not blind to him sometimes taking a very hard line against humanity like in the "Someday" corporation weaponised mutant story (part of IvX saga I think) but I think of all the villains on Krakoa he's a pretty honourable one

[ARkadelphia]

If the story of Krakoa had been based instead on Genosha, it might have been very different and more palatable, IMO, tying mutant identity issues into a 'real culture' (in the setting, at least, as Genosha was always a fictional country like Latveria or Wakanda) and side-stepping a lot of the fiddly 'Krakoa grows houses and food and medicines and *teleporters* and crap now' soft retcon.

I do think it's kind of a hoot how Ike Perlmutter spent a decade trying to have the Inhumans proliferate across the MU via Terrigen Clouds and NuHumans and drink the X-Men's milkshake, only to now have the X-franchise pulling the exact opposite and doing all the nation-building, politicking and genetics council as government business that the Inhumans used to have as central themes.

It's like, "Ha! We survived, and now we're in *your* house, eating *your* porridge!"

A decade? I don’t think so.