Overrated Bat-Family Detective [Poll]

[Cyberstrike]

Bruce Wayne is not only the most over-rated detective but the most over-rated hero in the DCU.

[dietrich]

Didn't vote. Though I'd say the top two choices are Tim and Bruce. However, on the flip they could both be seen as underrated as well. It really depends how you look at it. In book feats and public perception.

In regards to Bruce the general consensus is he is the greatest detective in the Bat Fam. In addition, he has the feats to back it up. Batman getting the title of overrated as the greatest detective in my opinion only comes into play when you start comparing him to other detectives from other series. In short, given the context of the question, no, I don't feel Bruce is overrated.

When it comes to Tim it's a bit different. Plenty of characters claim he is a top tier detective, but admittedly lacks the stories to back this up. At least not for the last 10+ years since he's only ever in team books of five characters or more. Not much room to explore his detective capabilities. In that line, yes, Tim can be seen as overrated. As for the second part, public perception, I'd actually say Tim is underrated. On this forum for example, I've seen many people constantly claim Tim has no actual detective feats or stories which isn't true. Even going as far to say Tim is a below average detective, which just isn't true. So like with Bruce, I don't see either as overrated.

The only thing in the Bat Fam is underrated detectives; Dick, Jason, Steph , Duke, and even Cass(in a different kind of way), ranking atop that list.

Really?

There's actual discourse ranging right now on reddit and Tumblr re fans repeatedly claiming how Tim has surpassed Bruce.

I've come across statements claiming that Bruce has admitted that Tim IS a better detective.

How many of us have come across the " Tim is the only Robin that Ra's has called detective" statement?

How many of us has come across that statement more than once?


Typed in Tim Drake into google and the info that comes up on the 1st page from independent and fandom [ not official] sites make claims like he is a detective on the level of batman himself or that he has a genius level intellect.

I have to disagree with you that Tim is underrated in the publics perception.

[KrustyKid]

Really?

There's actual discourse ranging right now on reddit and Tumblr re fans repeatedly claiming how Tim has surpassed Bruce.

I've come across statements claiming that Bruce has admitted that Tim IS a better detective.

How many of us have come across the " Tim is the only Robin that Ra's has called detective" statement?

How many of us has come across that statement more than once?


Typed in Tim Drake into google and the info that comes up on the 1st page from independent and fandom [ not official] sites make claims like he is a detective on the level of batman himself or that he has a genius level intellect.

I have to disagree with you that Tim is underrated in the publics perception.

And for as many people who say that there is an equal amount who claim Tim is a below average detective. I've heard that numerous of times. Then there's also those who say he has no feats as detective (many on this very forum have claimed this as well), when that clearly isn't the case. Tim gets underrated far more than he does get wanked by a few Tim fanboys. This is no different than those who have done the same with Bruce, Deathstroke, etc. Whether it be battle smarts, overall skills, or detective work. By virtue of that I'd say Tim is underrated given general perception when you consider the audience as a whole and not a small corner of fans.

[dietrich]

And for as many people who say that there is an equal amount who claim Tim is a below average detective. I've heard that numerous of times. Then there's also those who say he has no feats as detective (many on this very forum have claimed this as well), when that clearly isn't the case. Tim gets underrated far more than he does get wanked by a few Tim fanboys. This is no different than those who have done the same with Bruce, Deathstroke, etc. Whether it be battle smarts, overall skills, or detective work. By virtue of that I'd say Tim is underrated given general perception when you consider the audience as a whole and not a small corner of fans.

Looking at this site's forum community numbers and this poll in compared to bigger website's like Screen rant, Bigger forums like Reddit, the most frequently visited fandom wiki's [which all spotlight Tim's detective skills above all the other allies].

I don't see how you can claim that outside of comics Tim is underrated [however I can't speak for your experience]

The detail that's gets repeated consistently is that Tim is the best detective. That 's what comes up and what's associated with Tim.

Even on this site. A quick check show more posts pointing out Tim's superior detective skills.

That is my experience

[Fergus]

Looking at this site's forum community numbers and this poll in compared to bigger website's like Screen rant, Bigger forums like Reddit, the most frequently visited fandom wiki's [which all spotlight Tim's detective skills above all the other allies].

I don't see how you can claim that outside of comics Tim is underrated [however I can't speak for your experience]

The detail that's gets repeated consistently is that Tim is the best detective. That 's what comes up and what's associated with Tim.

Even on this site. A quick check show more posts pointing out Tim's superior detective skills.

That is my experience

Err... Isn't this contradictory?

Majority of voters believe Drake is overrated.

The information by writers and social media is that Drake is THE Detective. Casuals and Batfam fans who don't read the actual comics take the internet says as gospel.

I have seen the Ras only called Drake detective statement multiple times. some people must have read RR only and used that as a basis for all their DC lore.

Why else would a reader assume that just because Ras called Tim Detective in RR series this must mean that he definitely has never called anyone else but batman detective in any of the many many many many titles and stories that Ras Al Ghul has featured in.

[KrustyKid]

Looking at this site's forum community numbers and this poll in compared to bigger website's like Screen rant, Bigger forums like Reddit, the most frequently visited fandom wiki's [which all spotlight Tim's detective skills above all the other allies].

I don't see how you can claim that outside of comics Tim is underrated [however I can't speak for your experience]

The detail that's gets repeated consistently is that Tim is the best detective. That 's what comes up and what's associated with Tim.

Even on this site. A quick check show more posts pointing out Tim's superior detective skills.

That is my experience

Of course, detective skills are associated with Tim, because that's the only thing he excels at/Pre-52. If you throw in a multitude of fields; detective work, combat prowess, battle smarts, drive, adaptability, leadership, confidence.. I can assure you in comparison to the rest of the Bat Fam Tim would rank near the bottom. Damian, Jason, and Dick for example excel in a number of different fields. Thus why no one consistently drops a label on them for what they're great at.

As for your second point. What posts are you talking about? The only posts I've seen about Tim's smarts are in regards to his savviness when it comes to tec; hardware, CPUs, etc. That's a completely different realm of intelligence. If we were talking 10+ years ago then you might have a point. But now? Not so much. We've gotten to a point where people claim Tim has zero detective feats. Given your disdain for Tim you probably see those few Tim wankers that make it seem as if it is a general consensus, which isn't the case. Furthermore, a lot of people are intertwining Tim's detective feats with his more recent tec feats as if they are of the same field, something I believe has caused misconceptions when it comes to discussing Tim's intelligence unfortunately.

[dietrich]

Of course, detective skills are associated with Tim, because that's the only thing he excels at/Pre-52. If you throw in a multitude of fields; detective work, combat prowess, battle smarts, drive, adaptability, leadership, confidence.. I can assure you in comparison to the rest of the Bat Fam Tim would rank near the bottom. Damian, Jason, and Dick for example excel in a number of different fields. Thus why no one consistently drops a label on them for what they're great at.

As for your second point. What posts are you talking about? The only posts I've seen about Tim's smarts are in regards to his savviness when it comes to tec; hardware, CPUs, etc. That's a completely different realm of intelligence. If we were talking 10+ years ago then you might have a point. But now? Not so much. We've gotten to a point where people claim Tim has zero detective feats. Given your disdain for Tim you probably see those few Tim wankers that make it seem as if it is a general consensus, which isn't the case. Furthermore, a lot of people are intertwining Tim's detective feats with his more recent tec feats as if they are of the same field, something I believe has caused misconceptions when it comes to discussing Tim's intelligence unfortunately.

You might have a point that a lot of people are intertwining his feats with recent Tec feats thus leading to increased misconceptions and fans over hyping his abilities.
That simply explains the reason for the overhype doesn't mean he isn't overhyped [the point of this debate]

Robins aren't identified/associated to skillsets. Damian isn't the sword Robin. Tim is the relatable one who had a normal life. That is the thing that's his niche.

Associating him with Detective skills leads to fans overhyping those skills.

I appreciate giving reasons for for the overhype but that's not really the point we are debating.

My "disdain" for Tim means that when I see those posts and threads that wank Tim I remember them so here are some links to not just wank posts and claims that boggle the mind:

-Lex not being a match for Tim
-claims that's it's debatable whether Bruce is better than Tim,
-0Tim earned his strips as a detective while we never see characters like bruce or dick earn their detective stripes
-Dick is an action star, he doesn't think strategically not a detective like Tim WTF!

Also links to threads with debates re tim's skills that got a lot of engagement [especially from CBR members who aren't regulars on the Batman side of CBR]

The threads are particularly useful because
a] larger sample size than this poll's voters b] Broader audience. Diverse member input. majority of the comments and opinion are from usernames that don't frequent the batman side of CBR Community

I feature prominently in these

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...32#post2135832

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ake-Take/page5

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ep-child/page3

The 2nd link is particularly illuminating since it's the one thread that's focuses on Fans suggesting a new identity for the character based of how they perceive the character and what they associate with him.

[dietrich]

Err... Isn't this contradictory?

Majority of voters believe Drake is overrated.

I meant that a poll with 46 voters is too small a sample size.

[dietrich]

[B]What posts are you talking about? The only posts I've seen about Tim's smarts are in regards to his savviness when it comes to tec; hardware, CPUs, etc. That's a completely different realm of intelligence. If we were talking 10+ years ago then you might have a point. But now? Not so much. We've gotten to a point where people claim Tim has zero detective feats. Given your disdain for Tim you probably see those few Tim wankers that make it seem as if it is a general consensus, which isn't the case. Furthermore, a lot of people are intertwining Tim's detective feats with his more recent tec feats as if they are of the same field, something I believe has caused misconceptions when it comes to discussing Tim's intelligence unfortunately.

Some posts by different posters taken from the threads linked in my previous response.

There is no need to search the threads for the posts, clicking each link takes you directly to the page the small sample of posts below were taken from.

The 1st quote is a comment you made comparing Tim and lex Luthor's abilities

"Deduction skills, Drake has it. Tactical skills is close, depending on how you look at it. The other two categories Lex has a solid edge due to experience."


"Thats how the character was presented. He was good at deducing things. Damian was good at killing people, so was cassandra. Dick was good at flipping around, Jason had a problem with authority"



"Dick has never played different enemies against each other on a strategic level like Tim has. Tactically yes. Strategically no. Dick has never prepped a "hitlist" a la Batman. Tim has. The detective moniker is more than just being a detective. I never said Dick wasn't a detective but he doesn't think strategically like Tim does.

Learn proper definitions. Strategic is big picture thinking. Tactically is on the ground. Dick has rarely if ever had the strategic thinking of Bruce/Tim."


"It's not simply a matter of copying Bruce. It's a matter of earning those stripes. Unlike Bruce, we got to see Tim develop over the course of several years and become that detective.

Furthermore, I would argue that being Batman requires a certain methodology. Dick has never managed crime in Gotham like Tim did as Robin. Dick is an action hero. Tim is a detective. There is overlap, but the core of their story and character is different. Style-wise, Tim fits the role of Batman better."


"Tim Drake is appealing because he is as brilliant as Batman"


"Tim vs Luthor would be fascinating. Going against someone smarter than himself who isn't Batman (though Batman being smarter than Tim is slowly becoming more debatable)."


"Ah you see, i talked about wits, not scientific prowess. i believe they [Tim and Lex] could be on a rather even playing field there."


"No way is Luther smarter than Tim"


"Tim has the edge in deduction skills. His are second only to Batman in the DCU. This is not my opinion, it was stated in the comics. I also think Tim has the edge in tactical as well"


"Tim was said to have inherited the Mind, the Detective from Batman. Once writers remember that, that Tim is the Mind"


"He's a thinker.
He's a planner.
He's a strategist.
He's a detective.

He sussed out Batman's secret ID when he was just a kid."


https://comicvine.gamespot.com/tim-d...-wayne-639316/

"Tim is the true magnificent bastard. He's not just another Batman, he's something special, which is why he's constantly being hit up with recruitment offers from competing organizations. He certainly has Ra's' respect, as he's the one sidekick who gets called the "Detective" like Bruce does."



"Tim is just a better thinker, thus a better Batman.
Dick was just a cricus boy, Jason a punk, but Tim, he was the real deal"

These posts aren't talking about Tim being tech savvy.

[MajorHoy]

By the way, with 47 people having voted so far,

* Red Robin (Tim Drake) = 28 votes
* Batman (Bruce Wayne) = 6 votes
* Robin (Damian Wayne) = 4 votes

Everyone else on the poll has only two votes or less.
The females currently have either one vote or no votes . . .

[MajorHoy]

NOTE: This thread/poll was started in November 2021.

--------------------------

With 51 people having voted so far,

* Red Robin (Tim Drake) = 28 votes
* Batman (Bruce Wayne) = 6 votes
* Robin (Damian Wayne) = 6 votes
* Nightwing (Dick Grayson) = 3 votes

Everyone else on the poll has only two votes or less.
The females still currently have either one vote or no votes . . .