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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Yeah, they should have just not mentioned any of her backstory in Bat vs Sup. The idea of her as a museum curator is cool but not the idea of her being around since WW1 and barely anybody knowing her existence. It would have been better to let Patty figure out where Diana fit in to the whole thing. Or better yet, do a solo WW film first and then put her in Bat vs Sup.

  2. #47
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    I'm not going to put much stock in rumors and click-bait like this.
    But I won't lie, this kind of plot--Aquaman showing up to help fight an Aquaman villain--does sound like the kind of story we'd get from the guy who thought Max Lord should be the villain of WW84: Geoff Johns.

    People are worried about Patty Jenkins...personally, I'm more concerned whether Johns is still involved. I can't know for certain because obviously I wasn't involved, and I won't say Patty's blameless, but I'd bet money a lot of what went wrong with WW84's story/script can be owed to our boy Geoff.
    The man is and always has been one of the worst Wonder Woman writers in the character's history. Then he up and decided he should be one of the main creatives behind her movie, and his fingerprints are all over that script.

    For all the flack Zack Snyder gets (and much of it is deserved) that god awful Justice League trilogy outline--the one where Diana & the Amazons are all murdered by Dr. Poison--was co-written by Johns.
    Johns was still on the set making decisions and suggestions when Joss Whedon took over.

    Is it a coincidence the theatrical JL made a point of saying Diana shut down and was afraid of being a leader because she missed Steve Trevor, then a few years later, WW84 features Diana declaring she can't be happy unless Steve is in her life?

    Not to sound conspiratorial--and again, I can't know for certain because I wasn't there--but there seems to be a common link in bad decisions related to Wonder Woman. And his name is Geoff.

    I also bet, if I'm right, we won't know about it for a long time. Geoff is still one of Warner/DC's golden boys, and Patty's a pro that wants to keep her job, so she's not going to say anything. Remember when Josh Trank put all blame on Fant4stic's failure on Fox? He's still in directors jail for that. NOW, five years later, David Ayer is saying his vision was ruined by Warner, but when Suicide Squad first came out, he claimed the theatrical version was absolutely the movie he wanted to make and he was proud of it.

    Anyway...I'm not going to sweat rumors--especially garbage thrown around by idiots like Grace Randolph. But my confidence in the third movie will improve drastically if Geoff Johns is kept as far away from the making of it as possible.
    Hmmm, dunno. There were three writers on WW84: Jenkins, Johns, and Cretton (who wrote Shang-Chi). As the director, it seemed like Patty was talking about this movie as if it were her brainchild. There are comic book Easter Eggs in the film that one could attribute to Johns, but his take on Diana is often more action-oriented, which WW84 decidedly wasn't. So, I think the lion's share of WW84's problems lie at Jenkins' feet. At the end of the day, it's her film.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Johns' involvement in WW84 is interesting. I do agree stuff like the bloated script are probably as much his as it is Jenkins as that was also in Aquaman (which he was a script writer on).

    I'd also put money that Max Lord (spit) being in the movie is on him as he was involved the Infinite Crisis build-up stuff that hung Max on WW's world like an albatross and I imagine Johns will likely get royalties for that.

    But characterization wise, she wasn't really like much how Johns has written her (at least pre-Darkseid War). I figured that's as much Jenkins and Gadot but it's interesting I got less New 52 WW from WW84 than I did 2017.
    I don't know why people are blaming Johns for Maxwell Lord as a Wonder Woman villain. That was Greg Rucka's doing.

  4. #49
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beantownbrown View Post
    Yeah, Gadot is a busy woman. Cleopatra, a possible return to the F&F franchise, and a whole new franchise in Red Notice.

  5. #50
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    Directing takes up a lot of time so she just took on a little bit to much especially with COVID but that's nothing new. She also was going to produce the never greenlit Amazons spin off that was meant to bridge 1984 and WW3.
    That Amazons show just needs to go ahead and start adapting Historia. That could be the next, next GOT on HBO.

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    I don't know why people are blaming Johns for Maxwell Lord as a Wonder Woman villain. That was Greg Rucka's doing.
    I think Rucka did some interviews where he revealed he was always going to do the neck snap, but it was originally going to be another villain (maybe Psycho?) or an OC when he was developing it. When DidDio and Johns wanted to bring the story into Infinite Crisis, it was changed to Max Lord.

    Rucka still just wrote the issue, but I don't think Max specifically was his idea.

  7. #52
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think Rucka did some interviews where he revealed he was always going to do the neck snap, but it was originally going to be another villain (maybe Psycho?) or an OC when he was developing it. When DidDio and Johns wanted to bring the story into Infinite Crisis, it was changed to Max Lord.

    Rucka still just wrote the issue, but I don't think Max specifically was his idea.
    When I heard Rucka's original plan I guessed it would have been the Jonah character he introduced in his run (who later turned out to be working with Checkmate)

  8. #53
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    When I heard Rucka's original plan I guessed it would have been the Jonah character he introduced in his run (who later turned out to be working with Checkmate)
    Ooh I never thought of that.

    He killed Jonah off in Checkmate later, so maybe that really is the case.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    It will be interesting to see how/if they pivot based on the response to WW84.

    Thing is, although there is a vocal portion of the audience that insists the problem with 84 was Diana ditched the sword and didn't kill anyone, the real problems with the movie were things like pacing, Steve stealing a guy's body, Barbara's development, etc. Diana chopping heads off wouldn't solve those problems.

    The issue with the action in the movie was they didn't give Diana a real physical challenge, so they had to resort to de-powering her in order for dudes with machine guns and trucks to pose a threat. And when Cheetah finally showed up, she didn't come across as the deadly foe that only Wonder Woman at full power could face.
    Again, sticking a sword in Diana's hand wasn't going to solve that.

    It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we see Wonder Woman regain the sword/shield for the third movie, but I'd wager it'll be because the stakes will be high enough to warrant them. If this is the last of the trilogy, I can see them aiming for something big.
    Personally, I hope they have Diana ultimately prevail by unleashing her full power like the first movie. Expand on her god-mode.

    But we'll see.




    That's comforting...regarding Johns.

    Like I said, Patty Jenkins isn't blameless. She co-wrote it, directed it, and I don't think she's lying when she says she's proud of the film. Nor am I suggesting Johns strong-armed bad decisions on her or that there's a secret Jenkins Cut hidden in Warner's vault. For what it's worth, there are good ideas and things that do work in the movie, but I do believe a lot of what doesn't--Diana's dependence on Steve, Max Lord high-jacking the movie, Barbara's poor development, trying to fit too much--at least originated from Johns.

    Hopefully the third movie will have a screenwriter that complements Patty's ideas better.
    The first movie was a good movie and people liked it. And the theme of that movie was that Diana had the real power to stop the threat not her weapons. So it wouldn't be wise for them to make WW3 about Diana needing the sword and shield to save the day. It has to be her own power. That's part of the first movie that is liked by a lot of people.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    I don't know why people are blaming Johns for Maxwell Lord as a Wonder Woman villain. That was Greg Rucka's doing.
    Rucka had an entirely different idea for the person WW was meant to kill. Maxwell Lord as the villain and the death of Ted Kord were the brainchild of Didio's editorial. Evidenced by the fact that they have kept rehashing evil Max at every opportunity they got.

  11. #56
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    Hmmm, dunno. There were three writers on WW84: Jenkins, Johns, and Cretton (who wrote Shang-Chi). As the director, it seemed like Patty was talking about this movie as if it were her brainchild. There are comic book Easter Eggs in the film that one could attribute to Johns, but his take on Diana is often more action-oriented, which WW84 decidedly wasn't. So, I think the lion's share of WW84's problems lie at Jenkins' feet. At the end of the day, it's her film.
    David Callaham, not Cretton.

  12. #57
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    David Callaham, not Cretton.
    Ah, I stand corrected.

  13. #58
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    I was thinking about Wonder Woman 3. What would people think of Lady Gaga as Circe? Star is Born and House of Gucci shows that she is a draw. She does a superb job marketing her films. There were rumors that she was looking for a blockbuster film. And Gaga seems like she could balance the bombastic nature of Circe with the more grim and sinister parts.

    Gal, Patty, Lynda, and Gaga also seem like they would be a marketing force when paired together, and Gaga has a strong fanbase.

    Any thoughts?

  14. #59
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I was thinking about Wonder Woman 3. What would people think of Lady Gaga as Circe? Star is Born and House of Gucci shows that she is a draw. She does a superb job marketing her films. There were rumors that she was looking for a blockbuster film. And Gaga seems like she could balance the bombastic nature of Circe with the more grim and sinister parts.

    Gal, Patty, Lynda, and Gaga also seem like they would be a marketing force when paired together, and Gaga has a strong fanbase.

    Any thoughts?
    I’d rather Charlize Theron, TBH.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  15. #60
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I was thinking about Wonder Woman 3. What would people think of Lady Gaga as Circe? Star is Born and House of Gucci shows that she is a draw. She does a superb job marketing her films. There were rumors that she was looking for a blockbuster film. And Gaga seems like she could balance the bombastic nature of Circe with the more grim and sinister parts.

    Gal, Patty, Lynda, and Gaga also seem like they would be a marketing force when paired together, and Gaga has a strong fanbase.

    Any thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    I’d rather Charlize Theron, TBH.
    I'd be overjoyed with either Theron or Gaga for Circe.

    Too late now, but I'd be down to see Gaga try a hand at Priscilla Rich Cheetah.

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