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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    I wouldn't call Williamson C-list, but I also wouldn't put him in the same breath as Johns in his prime just yet. I get the comparison in the sense that Williamson seems to be playing the role of the architect now that Johns did back then, but while Johns wasn't everyone's favorite for different reasons, a good portion of his work proved to be some of the most successful books DC have done for the past 20 years. Johns never wrote the main Batman book either, instead he ended up elevating different B-list properties and the numbers don't lie, when Williamson does a book about a less prominent character that does Batman numbers I could see the comparisons but so far he's not there. I think it's also fair to point out that we're kind of past the "superstar" era at this point. There are still some exceptions obviously, but today people generally don't seem to buy books based on who is writing or drawing them, they buy them based on the quality.
    Last edited by Johnny; 12-01-2021 at 03:03 PM.

  2. #17
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    I wouldn't call Williamson C-list, but I also wouldn't put him in the same breath as Johns in his prime just yet. I get the comparison in the sense that Williamson seems to be playing the role of the architect now that Johns did back then, but while Johns wasn't everyone's favorite for different reasons, a good portion of his work proved to be some of the most successful books DC have done for the past 20 years. Johns never wrote the main Batman book either, instead he ended up elevating different B-list properties and the numbers don't lie, when Williamson does a book about a less prominent character that does Batman numbers I could see the comparisons but so far he's not there. I think it's also fair to point out that we're kind of past the "superstar" era at this point. There are still some exceptions obviously, but today people generally don't seem to buy books based on who is writing or drawing them, they buy them based on the quality.
    I guess that's fair comparison. It's not like Williamson has revamped Firestorm back into a moneymaker like, say, Johns might've done back in his day.

    Although it seems like he has a similar affinity interms of revitalizing The Flash, continuity, Titans, etc.

  3. #18
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Just picked up my copy today. But haven't got time to read it yet.

    Loved the Infinite Frontier mini so excited to see where they take the story.

  4. #19
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    This is a sidetopic and relates to what we talked about in Hal's thread... but you rate Venditti higher than Williamson? I would put them both on that C list. Thou with Williamson getting to write main Batman his "star" is bound to rise.
    I think they're both around the same level. They're capable writers who can deliver solid superhero comics, but not much else. However, Venditti has written more comics that I've genuinely enjoyed than Williamson. Of course, that would be just my personal preference.

    I think his Superman comics have been pretty entertaining for instance. Nothing revolutionary, but well-constructed down-the-middle superhero comics that aren't trying to reinvent the wheel, but have been consistently entertaining and accessible to all-readers, which is often not always the case these days.

  5. #20
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think they're both around the same level. They're capable writers who can deliver solid superhero comics, but not much else. However, Venditti has written more comics that I've genuinely enjoyed than Williamson. Of course, that would be just my personal preference.

    I think his Superman comics have been pretty entertaining for instance. Nothing revolutionary, but well-constructed down-the-middle superhero comics that aren't trying to reinvent the wheel, but have been consistently entertaining and accessible to all-readers, which is often not always the case these days.
    I think Williamson objectively revitalized The Flash book.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Williamson is a C-list writer? I mean, we can argue the quality of his work but I'd say he's on a similar trajectory as Johns at this point and his independent work pre-DC was popular too.
    I'm talking about the quality of his work vs. his current prominence. I'm saying anyone else has to view him as C-list, but that's where I'd put him in terms of talent given his current work, which is why I'm so shocked by him being given DC's number 1 book.

    And I don't think Williamson is going to come even close to where Johns ended up prior to his very public fall from grace.

  7. #22
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I'm talking about the quality of his work vs. his current prominence. I'm saying anyone else has to view him as C-list, but that's where I'd put him in terms of talent given his current work, which is why I'm so shocked by him being given DC's number 1 book.

    And I don't think Williamson is going to come even close to where Johns ended up prior to his very public fall from grace.
    I'd say quality-wise I'd put him on high B-list but that's my personal opinion so I guess that reflects why I'm not surprised why DC is pushing him.

    I don't see any writer becoming the next Johns in the current comics industry.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Flash after the New 52 disaster, currently Damian after most of the Rebirth and King disasters, Wally after Heroes in Crisis, Stephanie after Tynion, etc.

    Hell, you could say that a lot of the current DC series that can be considered successful owe a lot to what Williamson cemented.
    Considering Williamson's "saving" of Wally was almost exactly what fans were saying they should do to explain away HiC, I'm not sure I'd give him too much credit for doing the obvious. That's like giving credit to a driver for using the breaks before driving into a wall. Anyone would have done the same.

    This isn't to say that Williamson didn't pull off those stories well. Like I said, I don't think he's a bad writer, simply a not a great one. And I'd expect a little more from the guy who DC is entrusting with their top title.

    However, a lot of this is simply a matter of taste. If you guys think that Williamson's recent work is really worthy of praise, I'm certainly not going to tell you you're wrong. It probably doesn't help that Williamson has over-extended himself.

  9. #24
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Considering Williamson's "saving" of Wally was almost exactly what fans were saying they should do to explain away HiC, I'm not sure I'd give him too much credit for doing the obvious. That's like giving credit to a driver for using the breaks before driving into a wall. Anyone would have done the same.

    This isn't to say that Williamson didn't pull off those stories well. Like I said, I don't think he's a bad writer, simply a not a great one. And I'd expect a little more from the guy who DC is entrusting with their top title.

    However, a lot of this is simply a matter of taste. If you guys think that Williamson's recent work is really worthy of praise, I'm certainly not going to tell you you're wrong. It probably doesn't help that Williamson has over-extended himself.
    I'd say more having the willingness and care to do the "fixing" mattered more than it being just the obvious solution in this instance.

    Although maybe after Tynion kind of unceremoniously dropped Batman they need someone who is A. regarded well enough and B. can play well with DC Editorial, because it seems like the latter killed Tynion's Batman run.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Williamson objectively revitalized The Flash book.
    I think Williamson took a comic that was terrible and made it good again, absolutely, but a lot of that could have been Didio letting Johns take the wheel for a moment. It appears that both Manapul and those that followed him were being constantly derailed by Didio's editorial edicts.

    Plus, the surging popularity of the Flash TV show no doubt helped.

    And, once again, for those in the cheap seats, this isn't to say Willamson is a bad writer. I think he did solid, if unexciting, work on The Flash.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'd say more having the willingness and care to do the "fixing" mattered more than it being just the obvious solution in this instance.

    Although maybe after Tynion kind of unceremoniously dropped Batman they need someone who is A. regarded well enough and B. can play well with DC Editorial, because it seems like the latter killed Tynion's Batman run.
    That's a pretty low bar for a comics writer to pass, isn't it?

  12. #27
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think Williamson took a comic that was terrible and made it good again, absolutely, but a lot of that could have been Didio letting Johns take the wheel for a moment. It appears that both Manapul and those that followed him were being constantly derailed by Didio's editorial edicts.

    Plus, the surging popularity of the Flash TV show no doubt helped.

    And, once again, for those in the cheap seats, this isn't to say Willamson is a bad writer. I think he did solid, if unexciting, work on The Flash.
    I think past the initial arc of all the Rebirth runs it became more the writers of the solos than just simply Johns' influence, although admittedly that did get things going. Even Williamson had to work against the Didio regime during his tenure.

    The TV show being at the height of its popularity probably helped to get more eyeballs on the comic, even when it was doing its own thing.

    Personally the only time I was bored with Williamson's Flash run was the Forces arc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    That's a pretty low bar for a comics writer to pass, isn't it?
    When it comes to being able to consistently deliver stories within the Big Two these days? I don't think so.

  13. #28
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Considering Williamson's "saving" of Wally was almost exactly what fans were saying they should do to explain away HiC, I'm not sure I'd give him too much credit for doing the obvious. That's like giving credit to a driver for using the breaks before driving into a wall. Anyone would have done the same.
    Not anyone. King put Wally and everyone else in a predicament where only a creative solution could explain Wally's OOC behavior.

    Williamson did it and even managed to connect it to his ongoing story (You can bet someone like Tynion or even Taylor would have come up with something much worse).

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Personally the only time I was bored with Williamson's Flash run was the Forces arc.
    Which ironically was forced into Williamson. The "Derivative Forces" were created by Scott Snyder during his Justice League run and they were most certainly mandated to be used in other books.

    Proof of how editorial also derailed Williamson's run.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Not anyone. King put Wally and everyone else in a predicament where only a creative solution could explain Wally's OOC behavior.

    Williamson did it and even managed to connect it to his ongoing story (You can bet someone like Tynion or even Taylor would have come up with something much worse).
    Again, this is a very low bar, isn't it? Williamson's "creative solution" was already proposed by multiple posters, myself included, here on CBR several months prior to them actually doing it in the comics. It was the obvious solution. Just because you think other writers would have come up with something worse doesn't mean that Williamson's solution is anything that rises above basic competence. It was a good solution, definitely, but let's not fall over ourselves pretending it was a particularly original or creative idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Which ironically was forced into Williamson. The "Derivative Forces" were created by Scott Snyder during his Justice League run and they were most certainly mandated to be used in other books.

    Proof of how editorial also derailed Williamson's run.
    I have no doubt that Williamson was also hampered by editorial. Unless your name is Grant Morrison, you were stuck dealing with Didio's editorial edicts

    Williamson's ability to maneuver editorial edicts may well be the reason he's been given the keys to the kingdom, as Frontier said.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    When it comes to being able to consistently deliver stories within the Big Two these days? I don't think so.
    Geez, man. That's pretty sad. The ability to consistently deliver stories should not be where your bar is. How about delivering good stories? Is that really too much to ask for? In that respect, I think Williamson is definitely doing his job. He's a solid writer.

    However, I think he's over-extended himself because this and Infinite Frontier deserved better given the premise and characters. I want better than this.

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