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  1. #31
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Again, this is a very low bar, isn't it? Williamson's "creative solution" was already proposed by multiple posters, myself included, here on CBR several months prior to them actually doing it in the comics. It was the obvious solution. Just because you think other writers would have come up with something worse doesn't mean that Williamson's solution is anything that rises above basic competence. It was a good solution, definitely, but let's not fall over ourselves pretending it was a particularly original or creative idea.
    I think it's more appreciated that he was the one who implemented it rather than it just being the obvious solution. Not that I think Williamson perused the interwebs looking for ways to save Wally .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Geez, man. That's pretty sad. The ability to consistently deliver stories should not be where your bar is. How about delivering good stories? Is that really too much to ask for? In that respect, I think Williamson is definitely doing his job. He's a solid writer.

    However, I think he's over-extended himself because this and Infinite Frontier deserved better given the premise and characters. I want better than this.
    I mean, good is in the eye of the beholder, but I say that as someone who enjoys Williamson's work for the most part so I guess I'm biased in his favor. I haven't read much of IF aside from bits and pieces but I see some promise in it.

  2. #32
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    And, once again, for those in the cheap seats, this isn't to say Willamson is a bad writer. I think he did solid, if unexciting, work on The Flash.
    This, sums up my feelings about Williamson's Flash run perfectly.
    It was nothing amazing, just straight-up solid storytelling. For me? His tenure was pretty forgettable for the most part.
    On the upside, he didn't go kicking over any more of the furniture.

    I've enjoyed Jeremy Adams' short tenure a great deal more.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
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  3. #33
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's more appreciated that he was the one who implemented it rather than it just being the obvious solution. Not that I think Williamson perused the interwebs looking for ways to save Wally .
    I don't think Williamson even needed to look online for a way to explain away HiC as Wally being mentally manipulated was such an easy solution almost anyone could have come up with it. And while I appreciate Williamson implementing it, he only did so because Didio read the room after HiC's disastrous reception and allowed Williamson to do it. Again, a bus driver doesn't get bonus points for thinking it's a bad idea to drive into oncoming traffic. Just because there's other bus drivers that might keep driving the bus straight into a truck doesn't mean that the driver who decides to get back into the right lane is necessarily a great driver, but merely a competent one.

    Williamson's competence has never been in question here.

    Likewise, I don't give Jeremy Adams for wiping the rest of the HiC stank off of Wally as that was something that was absolutely necessary for the character to move forward. I do, however, give him credit for crafting some wonderfully fun and creative superhero comics in the process. Johns's GL Rebirth does a great job of rehabilitating Hal Jordan and restoring the classic GL mythos, but the real reason his run is remembered is how he used the idea of the Yellow Impurity being Parallax to build from there in new and unexpected ways. Keep in mind that Johns's original idea of Hector Hammond mentally manipulating Hal was discarded because it was too unambitious.

    While I'm glad Williamson used Thawne as a get-out-of-jail-free card for all the bad creative and editorial decisions inflicted upon the Flash franchise, it was hardly something that increased my appreciation for his writing ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, good is in the eye of the beholder, but I say that as someone who enjoys Williamson's work for the most part so I guess I'm biased in his favor. I haven't read much of IF aside from bits and pieces but I see some promise in it.
    That might be why you're not quite getting why I'm complaining about the lackluster storytelling in Infinite Frontier. If you're not even reading it, I'm sure it appears from the previews that it's better than it actually is, because, like I said, it's not bad. If it was, I wouldn't be reading it anymore, but I'd like it to be much better than it has been given it's premise and characters.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Williamson has done some genuinely great books, Robin and his Flash run are/were both excellent. But his IF stuff that’s meant to be driving the line is just ok, which is part of why IF isn’t lighting up the sales charts. I enjoyed the first issue of JLI but Williamson’s Darkseid is very Johnsian despite Williamson clearly trying to draw on Morrison here.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  5. #35
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Williamson has done some genuinely great books, Robin and his Flash run are/were both excellent. But his IF stuff that’s meant to be driving the line is just ok, which is part of why IF isn’t lighting up the sales charts. I enjoyed the first issue of JLI but Williamson’s Darkseid is very Johnsian despite Williamson clearly trying to draw on Morrison here.
    His Robin has been great and I don’t even particularly care for Damian, but goddamn it’s been a fun ride.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I got to be honest I don’t see what the problem is here. Williamson told us this is act 2 of his story, we aren’t doing the “what is Darkseid’s plan?/multiverse mystery” anymore because that was solved in the last miniseries. Now we know Darkseid’s goal, who is working with him, and that they also need to rescue Barry Allen.

    Basically Multiverse Justice League is on a race to stop Darkseid that was already set up. Art was a bit all over the place but other then that I have no problems here especially since I like that the Incarnate team is getting a lot more focus.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  7. #37
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I got to be honest I don’t see what the problem is here. Williamson told us this is act 2 of his story, we aren’t doing the “what is Darkseid’s plan?/multiverse mystery” anymore because that was solved in the last miniseries. Now we know Darkseid’s goal, who is working with him, and that they also need to rescue Barry Allen.

    Basically Multiverse Justice League is on a race to stop Darkseid that was already set up. Art was a bit all over the place but other then that I have no problems here especially since I like that the Incarnate team is getting a lot more focus.
    The plot isn't the problem. It's the execution that needs to be stronger. If Act 1 isn't particularly compelling, readers are going to be much less likely to stick it out through Act 2 unless it's showing improvement. This first issue didn't really do a great job of accomplishing that for me.

    However, I like the characters and premise enough that I will give Williamson another issue to try to unlock the potential this book has to be greater than it is

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Sometimes it looks like if book is written without grammatical errors and shows things that they like then its automatically good enough for some people.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Again, this is a very low bar, isn't it? Williamson's "creative solution" was already proposed by multiple posters, myself included, here on CBR several months prior to them actually doing it in the comics. It was the obvious solution. Just because you think other writers would have come up with something worse doesn't mean that Williamson's solution is anything that rises above basic competence. It was a good solution, definitely, but let's not fall over ourselves pretending it was a particularly original or creative idea.
    PFFT! I highly doubt that Williamson even pays attention to what happens around here in the first place.

    And is not like I think other writers would have done worse, is more like a pure fact (Just check Taylor's reasoning for Jason Todd using a crowbar in Nightwing).

    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Sometimes it looks like if book is written without grammatical errors and shows things that they like then its automatically good enough for some people.
    Well, craft has a lot to do with that too.

    For example, I think Jeremy Adams has the right direction for Wally right now but I can barely tolerate his dialogue which can be both heavyhanded and annoying when it tries to be "funny" (and reminds me a bit of Scott Lobdell's work except that I think Lobdell did better in Flash Forward).

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Sometimes it looks like if book is written without grammatical errors and shows things that they like then its automatically good enough for some people.
    Honestly sometimes that is enough for me, I don’t need everything to be absolutely amazing. A fun read that doesn’t do anything that I hate is fine enough in of itself for a hobby I read for fun.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  11. #41
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I don't think Williamson even needed to look online for a way to explain away HiC as Wally being mentally manipulated was such an easy solution almost anyone could have come up with it. And while I appreciate Williamson implementing it, he only did so because Didio read the room after HiC's disastrous reception and allowed Williamson to do it. Again, a bus driver doesn't get bonus points for thinking it's a bad idea to drive into oncoming traffic. Just because there's other bus drivers that might keep driving the bus straight into a truck doesn't mean that the driver who decides to get back into the right lane is necessarily a great driver, but merely a competent one.

    Williamson's competence has never been in question here.

    Likewise, I don't give Jeremy Adams for wiping the rest of the HiC stank off of Wally as that was something that was absolutely necessary for the character to move forward. I do, however, give him credit for crafting some wonderfully fun and creative superhero comics in the process. Johns's GL Rebirth does a great job of rehabilitating Hal Jordan and restoring the classic GL mythos, but the real reason his run is remembered is how he used the idea of the Yellow Impurity being Parallax to build from there in new and unexpected ways. Keep in mind that Johns's original idea of Hector Hammond mentally manipulating Hal was discarded because it was too unambitious.

    While I'm glad Williamson used Thawne as a get-out-of-jail-free card for all the bad creative and editorial decisions inflicted upon the Flash franchise, it was hardly something that increased my appreciation for his writing ability.
    I don't think it's a matter of competency but about caring about the characters and putting that in execution as a writer, and there was more going on in that story than just redeeming some OOC moments although I guess if you didn't care for Finish Line as an overall story the bare bones of it might stand out more to you.

  12. #42
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    PFFT! I highly doubt that Williamson even pays attention to what happens around here in the first place.
    You're misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting that Williamson got the idea from someone here. I'm saying the idea was so obvious he wouldn't need to. Almost anyone could have come up with that idea independently. You don't give a carpenter praise for thinking it might be a good idea to use a hammer to insert a nail into wood.

  13. #43
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Got a chance to sit down and read Justice League Incarcerate #1 and while it isn't hitting as hard for me as Issue #1 of Infinite Frontier, I gotta say I am excited and its one of my favourite on my pull list.

    I hope things get really well expanded and all the mysteries revealed in Infinite Infinite Frontier get explored going forward.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think it's a matter of competency but about caring about the characters and putting that in execution as a writer, and there was more going on in that story than just redeeming some OOC moments although I guess if you didn't care for Finish Line as an overall story the bare bones of it might stand out more to you.
    Where did I say I didn't care for Finish Line? I liked it just fine. I just don't think it was a particularly great story. Again, I think my bar for what I'm asking for from the comics I read might be a little higher than yours seems to be. The writer actually caring about the characters they're writing about and putting that on the page is the bare minimum of what I require from a comics writer.

  15. #45
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Where did I say I didn't care for Finish Line? I liked it just fine. I just don't think it was a particularly great story. Again, I think my bar for what I'm asking for from the comics I read might be a little higher than yours seems to be. The writer actually caring about the characters they're writing about and putting that on the page is the bare minimum of what I require from a comics writer.
    Or it just comes down to a difference in personal taste, but to each their own .

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