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  1. #16
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Rödney View Post
    This is why you can't take continuity too seriously. It's also why I don't read too many DC books. I'm not saying Marvel is all that much better, hell, I'm an X-Men fan, so what can I really say? Trying to make sense of X-Men continuity is like trying to unravel 40 years worth of earbuds that have been rolling around in a dryer set on ludicrous speed.

    That being said, I would genuinely appreciate DC holding off on the constant reboots. It's goddamn exhausting.
    DC hasn't actually rebooted since 2011 (and they claim it wasn't a reboot, but that's nonsense. Yes, some things held over, but Zero Year proves that ultimately, it was supposed to be a reboot, just a half hearted and poorly executed one). Rebirth wasn't a reboot, just a linewide relaunch that made some parts of continuity available again, and Infinite Frontier wasn't even a linewide relaunch so much as a linewide marketing event, sorta like One Year Later, that makes the rest of continuity available again. Basically, the n52 was a reboot, but Rebirth and Infinite Frontier were not.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    There are too many fans who want contradictory things. You think figuring out Batman's history is difficult, try being a Superman fan. So I guess they decided to just kind of say "Whatever you want to be true is true" which there's no way they can keep doing in the long run.
    Yeah, Batman's history is a lot more consistent across the board. Even with the contradictory bits that don't fit together, you can just go with what you want - in most cases, neither version would fundamentally affect the character's continuity.

    Case in point? Whether Batman first met Catwoman ''on the street'' or ''on the boat'' ultimately doesn't matter much and in fact both versions can be fairly easily reconciled. With Superman, the issue of whether Ma and Pa Kent are alive or dead are a bit harder to reconcile, to put it mildly.

  3. #18
    Mighty Member Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    DC hasn't actually rebooted since 2011 (and they claim it wasn't a reboot, but that's nonsense. Yes, some things held over, but Zero Year proves that ultimately, it was supposed to be a reboot, just a half hearted and poorly executed one). Rebirth wasn't a reboot, just a linewide relaunch that made some parts of continuity available again, and Infinite Frontier wasn't even a linewide relaunch so much as a linewide marketing event, sorta like One Year Later, that makes the rest of continuity available again. Basically, the n52 was a reboot, but Rebirth and Infinite Frontier were not.
    Fair enough, Rebirth and Infinite Frontier were "re-booty" enough for me to feel a little triggered, but you're probably technically correct (which is the best kind of correct) so I guess I'll let it slide.

    When was COIF? Like, 1985 or '86, right? That post-crisis to New 52 time period was probably my favorite time for DC comics. I did enjoy Court of Owls though, that was killer.
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  4. #19
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Rödney View Post
    Fair enough, Rebirth and Infinite Frontier were "re-booty" enough for me to feel a little triggered, but you're probably technically correct (which is the best kind of correct) so I guess I'll let it slide.

    When was COIF? Like, 1985 or '86, right? That post-crisis to New 52 time period was probably my favorite time for DC comics. I did enjoy Court of Owls though, that was killer.
    To me a reboot means you lose huge chunks of, if not all of, the past. The n52 is the only time that actually happened in the past ten years, I think. I haven't actually read CoIE, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, or Final Crisis, but I don't think Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, or Final Crisis actually rebooted, just did a lot of retconning. CoIE was definitely a reboot, though.

    I also enjoy the 86-11 time period best, though I've enjoyed parts of the n52 (usually Batman Eternal-on), Rebirth, and Infinite Frontier (I am one who still thinks Rebirth "counts" until Infinite Frontier, though that is contested).
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthjoker View Post
    I still don't get that. I am casual DC fan reader. and its been a nightmare for me to understand this Future State event. Is all this the new canon. They they resent canon again. or simply put all canons in continuity???? I don't get it.
    Don't worry, not even the most hardcore of fans get it.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Future State is an alternate future, full stop.
    Batman event Fear State was the beginning of events that would lead to Batman Future State if the villains succeeds, but they didn't.

    About Everything is Canon

    Everything that's been published by DC as the main continuity story, from 1938 into now, is canon as one single big long timeline, separated into Crisis reboots. The reboots and their process is canon in the story.

    A lot, not all, characters, now also remember what happened in their previous continuity, showing up in flashes of memory. Deathstroke, for example, remembers his daughter Rose taking out her eye in previous continuity, although the current Rose has both her eyes.

    Aside from events actually mentioned or shown in the books, though, they're not clarifying what's canon and how it happened in the current, post-Infinite Frontier continuity.

    What this means for new or casual reader is you're supposed to just take what's written in the current books and not think much beyond that, maybe look up the events they referenced in the past books available now on amazon and comixology, thank you

    It's the long time fans that's pulling their hair trying to keep up with the change, and maybe tweet the authors that they're doing things wrong
    So their memories are a mix of their current personal history plus memories of their previous incarnations? So WW remembers her YO origin but she is also aware of her Nu52, Post Crisis, Earth One and Earth Two origins?

  7. #22
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Don't worry, not even the most hardcore of fans get it.
    I feel like I'm pretty comfortable with it, honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    So their memories are a mix of their current personal history plus memories of their previous incarnations? So WW remembers her YO origin but she is also aware of her Nu52, Post Crisis, Earth One and Earth Two origins?
    I mean, in The Lies, Rucka already made it so that Year One and the n52 WW run both happened, it's just a question of which was real and which was deception caused by the snakebite.

    But a lot of stuff it's basically just "assume what happened in the past ten years, and if we want to reference what happened prior to that, we can and will". Similar to how Batman in Tom King's run remembered both Batman #1 from the 40s, and Year One from the 80s.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
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  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I would say that Marvel's history is certainly more stable across the board and works much better as a continuity but it's also not without it's problems either. If you try to sort out DC's history too much that way lies madness. I know, I've tried. Pretty much the only new DC stuff I'm buying right now is out of continuity stuff. At least that way I don't have to sort anything out.
    "I always have time for a citizen of Metropolis."

  9. #24
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Yeah, Batman's history is a lot more consistent across the board.
    Absolutely, feels like Batman and Green Lantern have the more consistent stable canons/continuity as far as the bigger DC subfranchises. Superman is an utter mess still. Flash continuity is too wonky I think (and not in a good way).

    Year One is canon and increasingly feels like it will never leave. I think now DC has shifted to more of a "Let some writers have partial leeway to create their own run's continuity, but when they leave, things that might seem out can just come right on back".
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  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    So their memories are a mix of their current personal history plus memories of their previous incarnations? So WW remembers her YO origin but she is also aware of her Nu52, Post Crisis, Earth One and Earth Two origins?
    Yes, but so far I know only Williamson uses this concept and clearly creates distinction (to the reader) between what happened in the current history and what happened in the previous incarnations. In Deathstroke, his current version of the past is in color, while his other memories are black and blue.

    In other books, if the flashback is relevant to the current story (most of them are), then that one for sure happened in the current history.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 12-03-2021 at 12:03 PM.

  11. #26
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    Year One is one of those classic stories to where no matter what DC says, it will always be canon. Its everyone's head canon origin. There might be small things changed, such as Selina being a prostitute but the general story is just too ingrained in the mythology.

  12. #27
    Spectacular Member Micael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    IIRC, Miller didn't have Bruce lose his parents at six. That was Essen speculating, not a factual statement.
    Don't remember that information being presented as speculation. There's no need to speculate about something that would be pretty much public knowledge in Gotham and would no doubt have countless records surrounding that event.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    IIRC, Miller didn't have Bruce lose his parents at six. That was Essen speculating, not a factual statement.

    All the story objectively tells us is that Bruce returned to Gotham at 25, and a few months later he reflects that it's been 18 years since his parents died - meaning he's either 7 or (more likely) 8 when they were killed.

    As for the rest - the way I see it, Year One is the baseline origin, but aspects of Zero Year remain part of continuity in broad strokes. I guess the Red Hood Gang arc could slot into the Year One era somewhere, while the Blackout and Riddler stories could be set a few years later with a more established Batman.
    I did a counting some time ago. There's a gap in the summer of Year One... I believe until August or September, but don't remember when it started... where nothing happened. I believe this is the period when Gordon under Loeb did a task force to catch Batman.

    I think it was April or May when the task force first act, and September when Batman vs SWAT happened.

    The whole of Zero Year happened in the Summer. Despite the length of the book, in the story itself, it didn't take long, since we started with Bruce already in the middle of infiltrating Red Hood Gang, and The Zero Year flood which began the Riddler arc happened in July. I think.

    So he can infiltrate Red Hood Gang while he's investigating the Falcone.

    As a bonus, both The Man Who Laughs version and Zero Year of Red Hood One's fall into acid happened during Year One, since Joker first appeared in December of Year One. So you can also slot that in the Summer.

    Also, Bruce started working with Gordon during the Zero Year flood, while in Year One it's not until his son was kidnapped. Since the flood doesn't need to happen during Year One on account of Duke Thomas's age, we can use Year One's version.

    Dent wasn't in Zero Year, so you can just use the Year One version
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 12-03-2021 at 04:59 PM.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Don't remember that information being presented as speculation. There's no need to speculate about something that would be pretty much public knowledge in Gotham and would no doubt have countless records surrounding that event.
    People get stuff wrong all the time about public individuals.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I would say that Marvel's history is certainly more stable across the board and works much better as a continuity but it's also not without it's problems either. If you try to sort out DC's history too much that way lies madness. I know, I've tried. Pretty much the only new DC stuff I'm buying right now is out of continuity stuff. At least that way I don't have to sort anything out.
    As it currently stands with the current reboot, everything matters, which is just a nice way of saying that nothing matters. Since nothing matters, there's no point to continuity, canon, etc. Therefore, the only real difference between "in continuity" and "out of continuity" is how likely other authors will borrow stuff for their own stories. Long story short, since there isn't a need to "sort things out" anymore, is there a point to limiting yourself?
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