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  1. #391
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baumblume View Post
    Hickman's HOXPOX means magneto knew about house of m and did not prevent it
    so if i know someone is going to kill someone and I do nothing I'm responsible for that person killing someone OOOOOOOOK

  2. #392
    baumblume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    so if i know someone is going to kill someone and I do nothing I'm responsible for that person killing someone OOOOOOOOK
    well
    the retcon Hickman's HOXPOX says all according to plan to create the groundwork for Krakoa

  3. #393
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    so if i know someone is going to kill someone and I do nothing I'm responsible for that person killing someone OOOOOOOOK
    Just to say it, being an accomplice to murder is a crime.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Just to say it, being an accomplice to murder is a crime.
    Ya but if you know you can then bring someone back to life.

  5. #395
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    The diaries? Yes they are canon.The fact they are hard to understand Is canon as well
    Aren't these full of traps set by Destiny to mislead her enemies?

  6. #396
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Aren't these full of traps set by Destiny to mislead her enemies?
    I am not sure she put full traps but her wording in her diaries was made purposely ambigous so it would be hard to get straight information out of them, Mystique for example has followed some of the diaries prophecies and despite the fact she knew and loves Destiny, she´s also has a hard time to understand them and more than once they had mislead her into taking different actions than she would have choosen otherwise, for example, once she followed one of Destiny´s prophecies expecting to be able to bring her back to life but it resulted in Mystique preventing a crisis, which made her mad at Irene because she knew that was done on purpose. I think of the Destiny diaries as Nostradamus verses or the Delfos Oracle from Greece in that they may give you information but they also may mislead you.

    Quote Originally Posted by baumblume View Post
    Hickman's HOXPOX means magneto knew about house of m and did not prevent it
    As other posters already said, each one of Moira´s lives has been different, in one she lived a full human and died, in another she made an alliance with Charles, created a country and were killed by Sentinels, in another she looked for a cure for mutants, in other she made an alliance with Magneto and was arrested, in another she made an alliance with Apocalypse and was later killed after finding out about the menace of the phalanx, etc. The one constant in each one of her lives has been the coming of Nimrod and the Danger of the Phalanx, everything else is very much open to change depending on the circunstances and the decisiones she makes in each one of her lives, she´s not like Destiny, she doesn´t have access to the future, the most she can do is compare her lives and try to prevent some constants, like Nimrod, Sentinels and the Phalanx but she doens´t have control over events she doens´t know will happen outside of the decisions she makes.

    That said, Magneto broke his links with Moira and Charles when he discovered she manipulated his DNA while he was a baby in her care and he thought they were just manipulating him to do their bidding, so it´s probable he decided to go on his own in creating the mutant nation with Genosha without the alliance with Moira and Charles, that means he didn´t have information from them when Genosha was destroyed but I think even if he did, I don´t think they knew an exact date of where Cassandra Nova would attack Genosha, in other lives of Moira mutant countries were destroyed by Sentinels or Nimrod, not by Nova and they were not Genosha, or else he would have been angry at Charles and Moira for not helping him to prevent Genosha´s destruction.

    Same thing with Wanda´s case, Magneto just knew she was in a bad shape and in need of help, he asked Charles to help and Dr Strange also helped and the Avengers were fully aware of where they were treatring Wanda so there´s not much else he could have done and Moira and Charles didn´t mention M-Day or talked about it on any of her previous lives so unless inferno says otherwise, M-Day is an event that only happened in Moira´s current life.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 12-05-2021 at 02:07 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  7. #397
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    so if i know someone is going to kill someone and I do nothing I'm responsible for that person killing someone OOOOOOOOK
    I think if I saw HoM I would not believe it was gonna happen anyway. It was too ridiculous. Marvel shot themselves in the foot with the story. Then try to retcon parts about it. Like they did with Disassembled. When they wrote that the Avengers knew Wanda was troubled and did nothing, when that never happened. They've gotta stop writing in culpability in retcon form. No one knew they were gonna pull this garbage. And there's no way readers are gonna believe that shoe-horned nonsense.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  8. #398
    baumblume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I am not sure she put full traps but her wording in her diaries was made purposely ambigous so it would be hard to get straight information out of them, Mystique for example has followed some of the diaries prophecies and despite the fact she knew and loves Destiny, she´s also has a hard time to understand them and more than once they had mislead her into taking different actions than she would have choosen otherwise, for example, once she followed one of Destiny´s prophecies expecting to be able to bring her back to life but it resulted in Mystique preventing a crisis, which made her mad at Irene because she knew that was done on purpose. I think of the Destiny diaries as Nostradamus verses or the Delfos Oracle from Greece in that they may give you information but they also may mislead you.



    As other posters already said, each one of Moira´s lives has been different, in one she lived a full human and died, in another she made an alliance with Charles, created a country and were killed by Sentinels, in another she looked for a cure for mutants, in other she made an alliance with Magneto and was arrested, in another she made an alliance with Apocalypse and was later killed after finding out about the menace of the phalanx, etc. The one constant in each one of her lives has been the coming of Nimrod and the Danger of the Phalanx, everything else is very much open to change depending on the circunstances and the decisiones she makes in each one of her lives, she´s not like Destiny, she doesn´t have access to the future, the most she can do is compare her lives and try to prevent some constants, like Nimrod, Sentinels and the Phalanx but she doens´t have control over events she doens´t know will happen outside of the decisions she makes.

    That said, Magneto broke his links with Moira and Charles when he discovered she manipulated his DNA while he was a baby in her care and he thought they were just manipulating him to do their bidding, so it´s probable he decided to go on his own in creating the mutant nation with Genosha without the alliance with Moira and Charles, that means he didn´t have information from them when Genosha was destroyed but I think even if he did, I don´t think they knew an exact date of where Cassandra Nova would attack Genosha, in other lives of Moira mutant countries were destroyed by Sentinels or Nimrod, not by Nova and they were not Genosha, or else he would have been angry at Charles and Moira for not helping him to prevent Genosha´s destruction.

    Same thing with Wanda´s case, Magneto just knew she was in a bad shape and in need of help, he asked Charles to help and Dr Strange also helped and the Avengers were fully aware of where they were treatring Wanda so there´s not much else he could have done and Moira and Charles didn´t mention M-Day or talked about it on any of her previous lives so unless inferno says otherwise, M-Day is an event that only happened in Moira´s current life.
    He still works for her in Inferno # and manipulated his kids in house of m. Professor X and Magneto know from Moira's past lives of house of m.all these secrets are about to explode to the surface- that is Inferno-

  9. #399
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baumblume View Post
    He still works for her in Inferno # and manipulated his kids in house of m. Professor X and Magneto know from Moira's past lives of house of m.all these secrets are about to explode to the surface- that is Inferno-
    He didn´t manipulate his kids in HoM, he was mind controlled just like the Avengers and X-men were until Layla Miller awoke him and lest see how Inferno ends because so far the main story is just about dealing with Nimrod and Orchis. I don´t think we will see anything about M-Day, I was hoping ToM would tackle it but so far it just seems it would serve to just end Wanda´s issues with the mutants from Krakoa.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I think if I saw HoM I would not believe it was gonna happen anyway. It was too ridiculous. Marvel shot themselves in the foot with the story. Then try to retcon parts about it. Like they did with Disassembled. When they wrote that the Avengers knew Wanda was troubled and did nothing, when that never happened. They've gotta stop writing in culpability in retcon form. No one knew they were gonna pull this garbage. And there's no way readers are gonna believe that shoe-horned nonsense.
    Agreed. I don´t think they should do more retcons on this area.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 12-05-2021 at 02:27 PM.
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  10. #400
    baumblume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    He didn´t manipulate his kids in HoM, he was mind controlled just like the Avengers and X-men were until Layla Miller awoke him and lest see how Inferno ends because so far the main story is just about dealing with Nimrod and Orchis. I don´t think we will see anything about M-Day.
    that is not what new Hickman's HOXPOX canon says .
    question, how many people would be mad at them for hiding the truth?

  11. #401
    baumblume
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    can there really be any redemption from this though? At the very best Xavier, Mags, and Moira played god on a national scale. At worst they selfishly brainwashed thousands of mutants, reduced 90% of the mutant race to clones, and completely alienated all of their non-mutant friends and allies for the promise of creating the largest and most dangerous cult in human history.

  12. #402
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baumblume View Post
    that is not what new Hickman's HOXPOX canon says .
    question, how many people would be mad at them for hiding the truth?
    I have read HoX/PoX, the only mention on M-Day is the one in which Wanda is called the pretender, on everything else it´s all about Nimrod, Orchis and the Phalanx. I don´t think Hickman wanted to tackle HoM at all with his retcon on Moira.

    I think all the X-men will be mad at them but they already decided they were going to tell them anyway since the last issue of HoX

    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 12-05-2021 at 02:33 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  13. #403
    baumblume
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    Moira ultimately hasn't given up her plans to "cure" the world of mutants. That's Moira's real plans that Destiny threatens.

  14. #404
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baumblume View Post
    Moira ultimately hasn't given up her plans to "cure" the world of mutants. That's Moira's real plans that Destiny threatens.
    This is a possibility, I think the last confrontation on Inferno will be between Moira and Destiny and if Destiny knows about Moira´s plans, whatever they are, this would explain why she doens´t want her back but now Destiny is back so we will see what else Moira does.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 12-05-2021 at 02:37 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
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  15. #405
    baumblume
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    Emma knows that Xavier, Magneto and Moira allowed a lot of tragedies to happen in order to get everyone on the same page for Krakoa.

    If Colossus is still under Mikhail's control this is another huge blunder.

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