Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 39
  1. #1
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,835

    Default ASM 80 Review and Spoilers!!!

    Today, friends, we are blessed with TWO COMICS starring Benjamin J. Reilly. Whoever could've thunk it?!

    Let's talk a little about the Amazing issue, and why it maybe wasn't as amazing as some of us might've hoped for.

    For me, there were two main problems: 1) the best part of the comic was the preview; and 2) the story doesn't seem to be progressing.

    We start right where last issue leaves off, with Ben drugged by Kraven. The interaction between them is interesting, and yet it feels like it's missing something -- some rationale for WHY Kraven cares so much about helping Spidey "look into the abyss." Is it just about Spidey being "corporate?" Would Kraven still be doing this if it were Peter under the mask? And maybe I've forgotten something, but how would Kraven even know that Spider-Man has gone corporate? I don't recall Ben ever advertising; but maybe somebody can remind me if I'm forgetting a story beat. Nevertheless, I get wanting to use Kraven in this story; but within the story itself, I'm kind of at a loss as to why Kraven cares at all. IMPORTANT: We can't forget that Kraven was hunting Ben and Janine. Is there more going on under the surface than we've been lead to believe?

    I do like the way Kraven looks from Ben's drugged mind. Very cool.

    The most interesting part of the issue is Ben referring to himself as Peter, and then slipping into the "I'm not a real person" sort of thinking that plagued him in the past. I think it's incredibly realistic that Ben, deep down, would still consider himself to be Peter -- perhaps similarly to someone in witness protection, who may never internally address themselves by their new, government-given name.

    But again -- we get Kraven's narration and it seems as though he's somehow aware of Ben's "epiphany." Or is he just talking out of his ass? Nevertheless, when Ben is thinking about being "a rough sketch of greater men," we get the art of faceless characters again. I think there's gotta be something here regarding why Beyond wants Ben: this whole "facelessness" thing implies loss of individual identity, and so perhaps Ben is who they want because they believe they can manipulate him into losing any individual identity he has.

    Anyway, Kraven essentially defeats Ben, takes him somewhere, patches him up, and then leaves him be. Ben wakes up and three Beyond employees are there. One of the guys has pills to help Ben, and Kraven says that Spidey has "found his offering." Why Kraven killed some Beyond employees but not these three isn't made clear. Kraven continues to lecture Ben about the soul of man being destroyed by modern corporate culture. As far as I can tell, it seems like Kraven doesn't realize that Ben isn't Peter, because the drugs made Ben consider his cloneliness, not corporate ugliness. Perhaps any "insight" Kraven has is merely coincidence.

    Ben defeats Kraven and heads back to Beyond. Marcus gets a decent amount of time in the spotlight and is portrayed sympathetically, espcially when dealing with Maxine Danger, who is ready for Beyond to stop Miles Morales from continuing as Spider-Man!!!

    Oh, and Aunt May meets up with Doc Ock to help save Peter!

    ----

    So, I will say I enjoyed the issue better on the second read-through. Much of the story was confusing at first, but made more sense when I read it for this post. Still, I feel like the story isn't really going anywhere. Like, why Morbius and Kraven? Do they actually, secretly, have something to do with Beyond? Or is their inclusion essentially random, left to the whims of the writer with no real connection to or bearing on the Beyond subplot?

    Maybe we'll find out there's more than meets the eye; regardless, I wish the story had more momentum at the moment.

    Still, I didn't hate the issue. I enjoyed it, especially that second time around. Still, my disappointments with the issue exist. One can only hope that the inclusion of Ock into the story means the plot will be moving forward quite soon.

    -Pav, who noticed that Ock is sweating when he agrees to help Peter for May...
    Last edited by Pav; 12-01-2021 at 09:06 PM.
    2021 Marvel Monthlies
    X-Men, X-Force, New Mutants, Way of X, Marauders, Excalibur, Sword, Runaways, Strange Academy
    2021 Marvel Minis
    Taskmaster, U.S.Agent, Beta Ray Bill, Iron Fist: Heart of the Dragon, America Chavez, Black Knight


    Closet full of comics? Consider donating to my middle school! DM for details

  2. #2
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    1,375

    Default

    Yeah… what’s frustrating is the writer is obviously a good writer based on some scenes and dialogue. This isn’t like some Slott train wreck from beginning to end. I feel like there’s some dashed potential, which makes it even more frustrating. I feel the writer was either constrained from the amount of pages, or there’s some editorial mandates about what they want and don’t want the writers to do during their turns. I don’t know…. there’s something very meh about this event so far. It’s not offensive like Slott’s stuff, it’s not convoluted like Spencer’s stuff, it’s just… boring.

    EDIT: you asked “why Kraven and Morbius?” … I’d bet every dollar in my account it’s tied to Sony producing movies based on those two properties. They’re trying to increase property awareness.
    Last edited by HypnoHustler; 12-01-2021 at 09:48 PM.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    6,190

    Default

    Great review, I have to say being mediocre and forgettable in such a story format is worse than doing something bold and failing.

    Can't blame the writers, they only get 2 issues each to set up their stories and end them.

    Ben in Beyond to me has shined whenever around Peter, the first 2 issues and then his conversation w/ him an issue ago.When it's just him vs villains or talking w/ Beyond it's not nearly as good(not bad either).

    Next 2 issues are some of the ones I'm dreading, the May Ock and Ben vs Miles isn't stuff I have high hopes for.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,337

    Default

    As a fan of Ock's current direction, I am interested to see what propels him into action against Beyond. What does he find out about what's happened to Peter that causes that? It can't be the rights to Spider-man XD

  5. #5
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    California
    Posts
    9,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    As a fan of Ock's current direction, I am interested to see what propels him into action against Beyond. What does he find out about what's happened to Peter that causes that? It can't be the rights to Spider-man XD
    He does it for love.

    Aunt May x Doc Ock!

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    He does it for love.

    Aunt May x Doc Ock!
    Spiderfan001 just threw up in his mouth a bit because old people are Gross.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    6,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Spiderfan001 just threw up in his mouth a bit because old people are Gross.
    No, the dialogue is.I have no problems w/ May or Ock being in relationships.

    That and Ock hijacked the body of her Nephew whose like a Son to her and kissed his Girlfriend/wife who also happens to be May's almost daughter in law and May's anc Ock's age w/ MJ even knowing.

    But yeah it's definitely because of age...

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    No, the dialogue is.I have no problems w/ May or Ock being in relationships.

    That and Ock hijacked the body of her Nephew whose like a Son to her and kissed his Girlfriend/wife who also happens to be May's almost daughter in law and May's anc Ock's age w/ MJ even knowing.

    But yeah it's definitely because of age...
    Yeah, it's a soap opera. What of it? xD

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    6,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Yeah, it's a soap opera. What of it? xD
    *sigh* Calling it a soap opera doesn't justify the OOC dialogue nor the actions of the characters involved

    The dialogue being "My trail has run cold and I need a very specific heat that only you can give me" and that "it gets turned on" panel shared by the writers on twitter.Not to mention the issue being described by the head editor as Love w/ a touch of lust

    The actions being body-jacking her almost son and then s*xually assaulting May's almost daughter in law who happens to be half Ock's age

    I'm guessing your one of the few who also justifies Nightwing sleeping w/ Barbara and then giving her the invitation to his and Kori's wedding...

    And You were the one who made the (incorrect)assumption that I disliked the handling of the couple because of age on top of bringing me into a conversation that had nothing to do with me ...
    Last edited by Spiderfan001; 12-02-2021 at 12:06 AM.

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    *sigh* Calling it a soap opera doesn't justify the OOC dialogue nor the actions of the characters involved

    The dialogue being "My trail has run cold and I need a very specific heat that only you can give me" and that "it gets turned on" panel shared by the writers on twitter.Not to mention the issue being described by the head editor as Love w/ a touch of lust

    The actions being body-jacking her almost son and then s*xually assaulting May's almost daughter in law who happens to be half Ock's age

    I'm guessing your one of the few who also justifies Nightwing sleeping w/ Barbara and then giving her the invitation to his and Kori's wedding...

    And You were the one who made the (incorrect)assumption that I disliked the handling of the couple because of age on top of bringing me into a conversation that had nothing to do with me ...
    *You* calling it 'ooc' doesn't make it OOC. May and Otto have a prior relationship. I don't see anything terribly out of character for either of them here, especially given the memories Peter hilariously witnessed in Spidey 700. May is a modern woman, after all. She's flirting with him. So what? Are older women not allowed that? Is May not allowed to lean into their prior relationship to get Otto's help? They did have real feelings for each other, and I don't even think May knows about Superior, does she?

    I'm not gonna address your statement about Superior Spider-Man since that's a huge can of worms that isn't really merited getting into.

    You were already in the conversation. I was poking fun at your prior reaction to the news of this, as it's something you've expressed distaste for multiple times and griped about. You even posted right here in this thread. Geeze.

    Meanwhile, making incorrect assumptions is something like declaring I obviously excuse something to do with Kori and Dick. Sheesh, dude. Don't be so defensive. I was just teasing a bit.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 12-02-2021 at 12:18 AM.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    6,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    *You* calling it 'ooc' doesn't make it OOC. May and Otto have a prior relationship. I don't see anything terribly out of character for either of them here, especially given the memories Peter hilariously witnessed in Spidey 700. May is a modern woman, after all. She's flirting with him. So what? Are older women not allowed that? Is May not allowed to lean into their prior relationship to get Otto's help? They did have real feelings for each other, and I don't even think May knows about Superior, does she?
    I'm not calling her going to Ock for help OOC, I'm calling the dialogue OOC.And flirting isn't the problem, everyone does/can do it.It's the dialogue that it makes it OOC.

    And one other moment doesn't change the decades of May written who doesn't talk like that, even when she was w/ Doc or other people.Heck even in that moment she doesn't talk like that.

    She states in the comic she has no disillusions about him and what he's done.Even aside from superior he has a massive rap-sheet.

    And the writers and viewers still are aware of superior.Heck even Doc has some knowledge of it

    I'm not gonna address your statement about Superior Spider-Man since that's a huge can of worms that isn't really merited getting into.
    You won't address it because there is no defending it.Ock made those choices willingly

    You were already in the conversation. I was poking fun at your prior reaction to the news of this, as it's something you've expressed distaste for multiple times and griped about. You even posted right here in this thread. Geeze.
    I wasn't in your conversation.And you just assumed it's because of age.

    Meanwhile, making incorrect assumptions is something like declaring I obviously excuse something to do with Kori and Dick. Sheesh, dude. Don't be so defensive. I was just teasing a bit.
    You made one first, I just mocked it.Clearly you don't like it as well so let's both try not to do it again.

    You did involve me in a conversation I wasn't a part of and made an assumption w/ no base to it so I feel being a little defensive wasn't uncalled for.

    I'm sorry if I misunderstood but it doesn't come off as teasing to me in text.Maybe mention it's teasing in the second post when someone is taking it seriously.

    Either way again my bad, should have clarified if you meant it seriously or as a joke before going further.

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I'm not calling her going to Ock for help OOC, I'm calling the dialogue OOC.And flirting isn't the problem, everyone does/can do it.It's the dialogue that it makes it OOC.

    And one other moment doesn't change the decades of May written who doesn't talk like that, even when she was w/ Doc or other people.Heck even in that moment she doesn't talk like that.

    She states in the comic she has no disillusions about him and what he's done.Even aside from superior he has a massive rap-sheet.
    Who says she doesn't talk like that with her paramours? She's an adult woman, dude. She can talk like that with her paramours, mroe specifically one she's leaning into for help.

    And the writers and viewers still are aware of superior.Heck even Doc has some knowledge of it
    That's irrelevant to May's characterization.



    You won't address it because there is no defending it.Ock made those choices willingly
    No, I won't address it because it opens up a very, very and different conversation that's a huge sidetrack. It was, what, SSM 2 that you're talking about? There's a lot of bad faith assumptions about what Slott was intending there, and broader societal questions that I don't really think we need to discuss *here* in *this* thread.


    I wasn't in your conversation.And you just assumed it's because of age.
    Dude, you literally posted about your distaste for this several times, and *in this very thread*. This thread is a conversation.



    You made one first, I just mocked it.Clearly you don't like it as well so let's both try not to do it again.
    I made a joke about the reason for your distaste and then said it was a soap opera. Only one of those things has anything to do with anything being discussed here.

    ]You did involve me in a conversation I wasn't a part of and made an assumption w/ no base to it so I feel being a little defensive wasn't uncalled for.
    Youi're *literally right here in the thread*, and you have posted about this more than once and we've even talked about it before. Commenting on that and to our previous conversation is well within my rights as a poster.

    I'm sorry if I misunderstood but it doesn't come off as teasing to me in text.Maybe mention it's teasing in the second post when someone is taking it seriously.
    Yes, I was intending it largely in jest. Tone can be hard to read over the internet, however.

    Either way again my bad, should have clarified if you meant it seriously or as a joke before going further.[/QUOTE]

    Don't worry about it.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    6,190

    Default

    I overstepped, My bad.Should have approached this better.

    Back on topic:- Is Janine living in Beyond HQ?

    Because 85 solicits say "DOCTOR OCTOPUS VS. SPIDER-MAN AT BEYOND HQ" and we know he'll suffer a massive loss...

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I overstepped, My bad.Should have approached this better.

    Back on topic:- Is Janine living in Beyond HQ?

    Because 85 solicits say "DOCTOR OCTOPUS VS. SPIDER-MAN AT BEYOND HQ" and we know he'll suffer a massive loss...
    Oof. I hope they don't have Otto kill Janine. It'd make the direction they seem to be leaning into for Superior Four pointless. I know some folks want Otto back as a straight villain yesterday but his most popular depictions leave him *some* redeeming qualities, you know? Marvel's Spider-Man, Superior Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2. Heck, even one of the cartoons had Otto on the side of the angels recently. The lone exception in this modern trend, is Olviia Octaivus, who's not really him -- though leaving Otto positiive attributes goes all the way back to Stan Lee.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 12-02-2021 at 01:23 AM.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    6,190

    Default

    Yeah, hope so too.A straight up villain isn't what I want either.He's going against Beyond so I find it unlikely he will be that.

    Maybe he doesn't do it himself and it's just collateral same way NYC will be.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •