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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    My post wasn't about comparing WW to Cap and Thor.

    Regardless, if anyone had the headstart, it was Wonder Woman. She had a popular TV show before getting a live action film, something neither Cap or Thor had. But because WB is inept at managing WW, it took until 2016 for Diana to pop up on the bigscreen, despite how iconic she already was.
    Agreed. There is no defense for WB ignoring WW for the entire duration of the 90's, 00's and the early '10s.

    Here is Wizard magazine fan casting Jennifer Connelly as Wonder Woman when she was still in the age range for the role from back in 2002 (?). And even they pointed how it was a travesty that WW hasn't been on screen since the 70's.


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Idk about that, Spidey came out two decades later and already seems to be on par or even slightly ahead of Batman in total media sales and well ahead of Superman. And like Batman, he keeps getting material with the first billion dollar pandemic movie in December, another hit video game, and Spider-Verse 2 soon. I'm not sure how big inflation would really even be as I don't think superheroes were really a global merch machine in the 40s and 50s like they have been in the last several decades. Hell, it was the 80s where there toy sales really took off
    In real dollars or unadjusted? As for your question about inflation, it's unquestionably a big deal in regard to this question, as well as population growth since the '30s. I don't know about Batman, but Superman merchandise was quite extensive pre-'60s. Of course, comic-book sales were at the highest during the Golden Age - no other era can match it.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    In real dollars or unadjusted? As for your question about inflation, it's unquestionably a big deal in regard to this question, as well as population growth since the '30s. I don't know about Batman, but Superman merchandise was quite extensive pre-'60s. Of course, comic-book sales were at the highest during the Golden Age - no other era can match it.
    I don't think you're ever going to get inflation numbers for those things outside of box office so it's really just conjecture at that point. It's debatable how much inflation even would affect it since merchandise sales grew exponentially through the decades and it can be seen as how cross-media products became more and more important as we get closer to the modern day. The only thing you have to go on is gross totals where Spidey has been on fire and made more in terms of pure dollars

  4. #64
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    It was years in the making starting with Frank Miller, than the 1989 film, BTAS, and then Nolan + the Arkham Games cemented him as DC's top guy for years to come.
    It goes to show you good media adaptations is what make the top dog in comics. It's why Superman has been struggling for years. All his modern films haven't captured the actual audience, but Injustice and Snyder kicked off the evil Superman era.
    Last edited by DABellWrites; 12-05-2021 at 10:27 PM. Reason: fixing my thoughts. :P

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Nolan films. Prior to that, Superman was DC's top guy.
    Superman hadn't been DC's top guy in decades before Nolan ever directed a Batman movie.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I agree with all the points so far - symplicity of concept & origin, consistency in writing, constant investment and promition across media; but I'd like to suggest a few more.

    The first is that Batman appeals to broader audiences who otherwise aren't interested in the superhero genre. The fact he has no powers makes him easier to swallow for those who aren't willing to suspend their disbelief much, and on the surface it makes him seem more "mature". Nolan solidified this perception with his #grounded take layered with social commentary. Someone might see James Bond and Batman but pass on a Superman or Thor movie.

    The second point is related, and that's the notion that anti-heroes have become much more popular, to the extent that they're the new standard. Post-modern sensibilities with regards to morality, heroism, criminality, etc. have made it more difficult for audiences (or perhaps writers) to take beacons of hope seriously as characters. It's certainly a more cynical age where (sometimes ruthless) deconstruction is commonplace. A tortured gothic billionaire with mentally ill villains fits perfectly in that zeitgeist.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman hadn't been DC's top guy in decades before Nolan ever directed a Batman movie.
    Changed my comment.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    It goes to show you good media adaptations is what make the top dog in comics. It's why Superman has been struggling for years. All his films haven't captured the actual audience, but Injustice and Snyder kicked off the evil Superman era.
    I know for me while I enjoy Henry Cavill's Superman I just don't like that tortured and dark image that Zack Snyder has given, that's why you have Batman as dark and tortured, Superman is supposed to be light and smile and wink to his fellow Metropolis citizens.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    It was years in the making starting with Frank Miller, than the 1989 film, BTAS, and then Nolan + the Arkham Games cemented him as DC's top guy for years to come.
    It goes to show you good media adaptations is what make the top dog in comics. It's why Superman has been struggling for years. All his films haven't captured the actual audience, but Injustice and Snyder kicked off the evil Superman era.
    They didn't. The DCAU had done that a decade before. Miller arguably started it with The Dark Knight Returns.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman hadn't been DC's top guy in decades before Nolan ever directed a Batman movie.
    Returns did make more money than Begins did however, it just didn’t make as much in profit because WB stupidly expected it to recoup the budgets of all the failed Superman projects that had come before.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace Dolex View Post
    I know for me while I enjoy Henry Cavill's Superman I just don't like that tortured and dark image that Zack Snyder has given, that's why you have Batman as dark and tortured, Superman is supposed to be light and smile and wink to his fellow Metropolis citizens.
    That depends on the Batman incarnation. For decades Batman was a lighthearted, goofy, character. He had over-the-top adventures on different planets and villains.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace Dolex View Post
    I know for me while I enjoy Henry Cavill's Superman I just don't like that tortured and dark image that Zack Snyder has given, that's why you have Batman as dark and tortured, Superman is supposed to be light and smile and wink to his fellow Metropolis citizens.
    I thought both Routh and Cavill were great as Superman, but the writing let them both down (same goes for Batfleck).
    I would love to see a Superman movie with Brandon Routh headlining (or Cavill), but with Superman:TAS as the template.
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Idk about that, Spidey came out two decades later and already seems to be on par or even slightly ahead of Batman in total media sales and well ahead of Superman. And like Batman, he keeps getting material with the first billion dollar pandemic movie in December, another hit video game, and Spider-Verse 2 soon. I'm not sure how big inflation would really even be as I don't think superheroes were really a global merch machine in the 40s and 50s like they have been in the last several decades. Hell, it was the 80s where there toy sales really took off
    Inflation plays a part when it comes to box office sales, Batman 89 made $411m worldwide but adjusted for inflation it made over $578m in North America alone: http://www.boxofficereport.com/allti...ddomestic.html 48th highest grossing film ever in NA. Plus as I said the list leaves out revenue from Batman's comic book sales, both Spider-Man and Superman have made over $1b simply from comics so you can add another billion to Batman's $27b.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    In real dollars or unadjusted? As for your question about inflation, it's unquestionably a big deal in regard to this question, as well as population growth since the '30s. I don't know about Batman, but Superman merchandise was quite extensive pre-'60s. Of course, comic-book sales were at the highest during the Golden Age - no other era can match it.
    I don't know. That period between late 80s and early 90s must come pretty close to golden age.

    8 million for xmen followed by monthly sales well over a million.

    2 million for spiderman followed by million sales.

    Image did huge numbers too in that era.

    Industry also supported a huge number of books.

    That window of time might actually surpass golden age in sales.

    Golden age probably had more readers (with most copies read and shared) but in terms of raw sales it will be very close.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    I don't know. That period between late 80s and early 90s must come pretty close to golden age.

    8 million for xmen followed by monthly sales well over a million.

    2 million for spiderman followed by million sales.

    Image did huge numbers too in that era.

    Industry also supported a huge number of books.

    That window of time might actually surpass golden age in sales.

    Golden age probably had more readers (with most copies read and shared) but in terms of raw sales it will be very close.
    Comic sales per capita were at its highest during the Golden Age of the '30s and '40s. Despite the much smaller population of that time, the top-selling comics sold in the millions. Think how much they would have sold today with a population of 330 million! The later eras are in not in the same ballpark (and, with the exception of The Death of Superman, includes the speculation era of the early '90s).

    Comic book sales have been on a downward slide since my parents were born almost eighty years ago with no end in sight.
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