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  1. #106
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    They milk more drama out of Batman than they do Superman or just about any other DC character.

    They've done horror, sci-fi, crime noir, psychological, historical, Westerns, pulp etc. with Batman because they can get away with using him in a lot of those themes. There are shades of grey to Bats.

    They don't do many with Supes because they tend to view him in Black and White. Good Superman or Evil Superman.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    They milk more drama out of Batman than they do Superman or just about any other DC character.

    They've done horror, sci-fi, crime noir, psychological, historical, Westerns, pulp etc. with Batman because they can get away with using him in a lot of those themes. There are shades of grey to Bats.

    They don't do many with Supes because they tend to view him in Black and White. Good Superman or Evil Superman.
    In my opinion, writers are usually doing the same thing with Superman and they don't deviate from the formula that much no more.

  3. #108
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    In my opinion, writers are usually doing the same thing with Superman and they don't deviate from the formula that much no more.
    "The Choice" was possibly the most "Superman" story to ever be written. It has some stiff competition, but it's a story where Superman shows just how far he'll go to truly make the world a better place.

    It's also the sort of story that... while short enough for a single comic.... has... lasting implications. But it's those lasting effects(Scorch renounces villainy, Major Disaster joins the Justice League) that make the story so satisfying!

    No really, the only later times that Scorch acts as a villain involve mental manipulation of some sort. I don't even remember how many issues have Major Disaster in the Justice League. It was a pretty long run. But what made the story so good was that it wasn't just "Superman fights villain X for the 50th time."

  4. #109
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I think you can tell just as many, if not more stories with Superman than Batman - but Batman is probably easier to write. There's an inherent edge to the anti-hero that allows the writer to challenge them without fear.

    Most Batman stories are probably average, but the ones people remember across media are those kind of morally complex, social commentary types.

  5. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    One thing that I think is interesting to note is that both characters went through periods where their once popular movies series began to fail. With Batman, the studio lucked out with Chris Nolan, and the reboot successfully brought him back as a cinematic powerhouse that hasn't left since. Superman on the other hand, has had a much more mixed and divisive track record with the attempts at rebooting him (both Superman Returns and Man of Steel), and I feel that's affected his general popularity. Particularly in an era when far more people are exposed to these characters via movies, TV and video games than the actual comic books.
    OTOH, Superman seem to be doing better on the tv side. Smallville ran for ten seasons and it's ending lead to Arrow being it's replacement set in a newer universe which lead to Flash and later Supergirl and then after the Crisis, things seem to have come full circle with 'Superman and Lois'. It's not a smash hit but it's doing well enough to justify a new season.

    I've seen more than a few people point out how Superman's status as a immigrant and a journalist was never more relevant than during and post-Trump era America.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Joel Schumacher almost derailed Batman's popularity with his movies excessive campiness, however. Fortunately, though not as popular as the rest of the trilogy, Batman Begins was still profitable.
    I don't think Schumacher is all to blame for the campiness. Batman Returns was considered too excessive and didn't movie merchandize as much as the suits had hoped so they wanted to return to the campiness of '66 Batman but somehow also keep the darkness that Burton established. The result was a mess with a complete tonal mismatch.

  6. #111
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    I would argue some of it was luck to avoid any “cascading” mistakes and misfires for most of the last 40 years, where when there was a vulnerability in the overall franchise, no one overcorrected and broke it. Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern all had something like that; hard reboots, reactions against perceives mistakes, and a general tendency to try to hard to fix something that maybe wasn’t broken so much as in need of a good polish all had ramifications for those properties that Batman either didn’t experience, or got to experience better.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Joel Schumacher almost derailed Batman's popularity with his movies excessive campiness, however. Fortunately, though not as popular as the rest of the trilogy, Batman Begins was still profitable.
    The campiness was the studio's idea due to some of the backlash to Batman Return's tone.

  8. #113
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    Batmania really only lasted for 2 seasons the show kind of crashed in the third season. It saved the comics at first but in its aftermath Batman had to be reinvented. Thus thus the O’Neil run taking him back to his roots.

    I’d also argue that a lot of the other characters (except Superman) don’t have a strong core myth (common traits that are common across most versions) thus you have radically different versions in each new adaptation. This prevents casual fans from getting a good grasp on what these characters are about.
    I would reckon that the '66 show had more fans in reruns, where it was played in the '70s in the afternoons when kids were getting home from school.
    Star Trek had a similar situation, where its reruns in syndication is what kept it from becoming a forgotten show of the '60s.
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  9. #114
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I would reckon that the '66 show had more fans in reruns, where it was played in the '70s in the afternoons when kids were getting home from school.
    Star Trek had a similar situation, where its reruns in syndication is what kept it from becoming a forgotten show of the '60s.
    The difference is Batman was relegated to hours children watched due to a lack of adult interest by then, while Star Trek was seen usually at later hours. The latter's popularity actually increased to the point a cartoon was made in '73 and the numerous popular movies and spinoffs were spawned from the original's success.
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  10. #115
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    The difference is Batman was relegated to hours children watched due to a lack of adult interest by then, while Star Trek was seen usually at later hours. The latter's popularity actually increased to the point a cartoon was made in '73 and the numerous popular movies and spinoffs were spawned from the original's success.
    I meant similar in that both shows avoided fading into obscurity by finding new audiences in syndication.
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  11. #116
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    I watched all of both STAR TREK and BATMAN in their three seasons when they originally aired. I don't remember BATMAN coming back in syndication until maybe ten years later. After STAR TREK ended, it was back in syndication right away, on Saturday afternoons, when I would rewatch every episode with my sister. I remember this distinctly, because one afternoon a friend came to the door asking me to go out and play and I told him I couldn't because I had to watch STAR TREK. But after he left, I thought to myself what a pathetic dope am I, can't even go out and play, have to sit at home glued to the tube.

  12. #117
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I meant similar in that both shows avoided fading into obscurity by finding new audiences in syndication.
    I agree with you, but Star Trek went from a minor event to a major one with an extensive legacy, while Batman never really reached the heights it had back in '66.
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I watched all of both STAR TREK and BATMAN in their three seasons when they originally aired. I don't remember BATMAN coming back in syndication until maybe ten years later. After STAR TREK ended, it was back in syndication right away, on Saturday afternoons, when I would rewatch every episode with my sister. I remember this distinctly, because one afternoon a friend came to the door asking me to go out and play and I told him I couldn't because I had to watch STAR TREK. But after he left, I thought to myself what a pathetic dope am I, can't even go out and play, have to sit at home glued to the tube.
    As I posted last week, I started watching reruns of Batman as soon it went into syndication in '69. It was always in the afternoon either weekdays or on the weekend.

    As for Star Trek (my favorite show of my youth), I started actively watching it around 1971. It rarely was in the afternoon, but mostly between 6 and 8 PM.

    Both aired on WPIX for years when I lived on Long Island.
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  14. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    I think it happened in the 80’s I think the triple whammy of DKR, Year One, and the killing Joke pretty much rocketed Batman past everyone else. Prior to that Superman was the most popular character, and Batman was seen as kind of corny by the population at large( a result of the 60’s show). I feel giving Batman consistent mythology also helps. He’s the only character at DC that doesn’t get radical transformations after every major reboot. Their is no “Zeus’ daughter now” moments with Batman like their is with pretty much every other DC character.
    It was a result of changing times and the ascendency of Generation X as comic book fans towards a darker more serious tone in comics that had been brewing since at least the 70's.

    It was largely the Dark Knight, Killing Joke and the 1988 Batman movie that got the ball rolling on his exploding popularity though. During this time darker, gruffer heroes were becoming more popular (Wolverine, Punisher & Gambit, Venom over at Marvel, and later anti heroes like Deadpool and Harley Quinn in the early 90's.

    Superman on the other hand, was seen as the ideal boy scout superhero for the 1950's Leave it to Beaver, save the cat out of the tree generation, and while I love this....it was becoming a harder and harder sell because people preferred the grit of Wolverine, and over at DC, Batman.

  15. #120
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    It was a result of changing times and the ascendency of Generation X as comic book fans towards a darker more serious tone in comics that had been brewing since at least the 70's.

    It was largely the Dark Knight, Killing Joke and the 1988 Batman movie that got the ball rolling on his exploding popularity though. During this time darker, gruffer heroes were becoming more popular (Wolverine, Punisher & Gambit, Venom over at Marvel, and later anti heroes like Deadpool and Harley Quinn in the early 90's.

    Superman on the other hand, was seen as the ideal boy scout superhero for the 1950's Leave it to Beaver, save the cat out of the tree generation, and while I love this....it was becoming a harder and harder sell because people preferred the grit of Wolverine, and over at DC, Batman.
    You left out Lobo. who is literally a Superman villain... or was at first anyways....

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