When did Batman surpass every other DC hero in popularity? And Why did he?

[The Darknight Detective]

Batman became more popular because superman can be paternalistic.The savior concept has become outdated.It's condescending.All the superheroes have that,But these guys aren't blunt with it like mister christ.supes doesn't have another gimmick other than that.We can sometimes get a feel of fakeness from clark that ain't in Batman.When i read batman comic or spiderman comic i wouldn't get a feel that "Is this guy for real?and roll my eyes".Also some superman fans/writers think doing "Moral quandary"(i don't think the character does real introspection.My view) is better than the character doing what it was supposed to do.. cool shit.Batman moves like a freaking bat that glides over and thing that goes bump in the night.Spiderman is a wall crawiling,upside down kissing bug.Superman is an angel with red wings or sun god and most of the time a flying brick..That's not really impressive.Nor something that can engage people.That's saying something considering marvel made a guy with a frisbee for powers visualy awesome.
just my view on things..

You do bring up a good point: what was the reason we started reading Superman in the first place? For me (actually it began years before I started reading him in comics via television), it was all his amazing powers. Yes, other things attracted me about him, too, but that came later. The super stuff is what got me hooked.

[The Darknight Detective]

I've been watching reactions and reviews of IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE lately. And it seems to be a widely held opinion that the movie didn't do well because it was too dark. But really it's a film noir. It has all the features of the film noir--which was a reaction to the war. You had a lot of men coming home (Stewart and Capra) feeling disillusioned by all the horrors they experienced. And the film noir was a metaphor for that. But most of those were the B movies, not the A movies. So maybe people expected light entertainment from Stewart and didn't like to see him contemplating suicide..

Like many great movies, books, TV shows, etc., it was ahead of its time. Besides, though he was a star and the owner of an Oscar, Stewart wasn't a legendary force in film history yet. He also left Hollywood for five years due to the war right at the time he was just becoming a major star (he never was the top-billed actor in any of his Thirties movies, including Mr. Smith Goes to Washington). Fortunately, he had the talent and box-office charisma to ride it out before he earned a spot in the top-ten for the most popular actors all-time.

[Alpha]

You do bring up a good point: what was the reason we started reading Superman in the first place? For me (actually it began years before I started reading him in comics via television), it was all his amazing powers.

Couldn't disagree more. I remember when I was 5 years old and some episodes of Superman the animated series came on TV. I thought that guy was so boring. Yeah he was powerful, but he looked like a jock.

Then one day I was at my Uncle's and he has this really shiny dvd box with the Donner films and I decided to watch it. I loved how kind and reserved Clark was, and the dynamic between Lois and Clark. Not long after I found this episoafter that, I was couch surfing and landed on this episode of Smallville where Clark was saying goodbye to Bart Allen, the only persom that trully understood what he was going through all alone in the world. I got hooked to Smallville because of Clark and his relationships with Chloe, Lois, his parents, etc.

Then I read All Star Superman and found out how creative he could be, and the huge world he carried on his shoulders.

But the thing that finally solidified my love for Superman was reading Superman: Secret Identity by Kurt Busiek. Those panels of him meeting a Lois out there in this huge city full of people he couldn't talk to. Him drifting in the air looking down at the streetlights while thinking to himself about the world and his future.

So to me, the powers were never what made him cool. What made me like him was the introspection. The way he got to live his life little by little.

[The Darknight Detective]

So to me, the powers were never what made him cool. What made me like him was the introspection. The way he got to live his life little by little.

I'm certain if that's all he had on his plate back in '38, we wouldn't be talking about Superman now and the title of this thread would read: Why Has Batman Been DC's Most Popular Superhero Since the Start of WWII?.

[Jim Kelly]

what was the reason we started reading Superman in the first place?

Here's a list of the first twenty-five Superman-related comics that I purchased, in chronological order. Keep in mind, I could only choose these comics at the drugstore based on the covers (we were not allowed to handle the merchandise before we bought it). The first comic had a cover teaser for Batman-fans, so I do know that's exactly why I bought it. I don't really see a pattern, but maybe someone else can psychoanalyze my motivations.

1. ACTION COMICS 244 (December 1966)
2. JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA 52 (March 1967)
3. SUPERMAN'S GIRL FRIEND, LOIS LANE 73 (April 1967)
4. SUPERBOY 137 (April 1967)
5. ADVENTURE COMICS 355 (April 1967)
6. SUPERMAN 196 (May 1967)
7. ACTION COMICS 350 (May 1967)
8. ADVENTURE COMICS 356 (May 1967)
9. SUPERBOY 139 (June 1967)
10. SUPERMAN 197 [G-36] (June-July 1967)
11. SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN 102 (June 1967)
12. WORLD'S FINEST COMICS 167 (June 1967)
13. ACTION COMICS 351 (June 1967)
14. ADVENTURE COMICS 357 (June 1967)
15. SUPERMAN 198 (July 1967)
16. SUPERMAN'S GIRL FRIEND, LOIS LANE 75 (July 1967)
17. SUPERBOY 140 (July 1967)
18. ACTION COMICS 352 (July 1967)
19. ADVENTURE COMICS 358 (July 1967)
20. WORLD'S FINEST COMICS 168 (August 1967)
21. SUPERMAN 199 (August 1967)
22. SUPERBOY 141 (September 1967)
23. SUPERMAN'S GIRL FRIEND, LOIS LANE 77 [G-39] (September-October 1967)
24. SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN 105 (September 1967)
25. WORLD'S FINEST COMICS 169 (September 1967)

[The Darknight Detective]

Here's a list of the first twenty-five Superman-related comics that I purchased, in chronological order. Keep in mind, I could only choose these comics at the drugstore based on the covers (we were not allowed to handle the merchandise before we bought it). The first comic had a cover teaser for Batman-fans, so I do know that's exactly why I bought it. I don't really see a pattern, but maybe someone else can psychoanalyze my motivations.

1. ACTION COMICS 244 (December 1966)
2. JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA 52 (March 1967)
3. SUPERMAN'S GIRL FRIEND, LOIS LANE 73 (April 1967)
4. SUPERBOY 137 (April 1967)
5. ADVENTURE COMICS 355 (April 1967)
6. SUPERMAN 196 (May 1967)
7. ACTION COMICS 350 (May 1967)
8. ADVENTURE COMICS 356 (May 1967)
9. SUPERBOY 139 (June 1967)
10. SUPERMAN 197 [G-36] (June-July 1967)
11. SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN 102 (June 1967)
12. WORLD'S FINEST COMICS 167 (June 1967)
13. ACTION COMICS 351 (June 1967)
14. ADVENTURE COMICS 357 (June 1967)
15. SUPERMAN 198 (July 1967)
16. SUPERMAN'S GIRL FRIEND, LOIS LANE 75 (July 1967)
17. SUPERBOY 140 (July 1967)
18. ACTION COMICS 352 (July 1967)
19. ADVENTURE COMICS 358 (July 1967)
20. WORLD'S FINEST COMICS 167 (August 1967)
21. SUPERMAN 199 (August 1967)
22. SUPERBOY 141 (September 1967)
23. SUPERMAN'S GIRL FRIEND, LOIS LANE 77 [G-39] (September-October 1967)
24. SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN 105 (September 1967)
25. WORLD'S FINEST COMICS 168 (September 1967)

By the time I read a Superman-related comic (a Legion of Super-Heroes and also a Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen - both in '73), I had been a fan of Superman for five years due to George Reeves and Filmation. I was three then, but the super abilities got me hooked, line, and sinker. I have to believe the vast majority of my generation felt the same way, too. Now as I aged, I wanted more than that, but the powers still did it for me and still do.

[Vordan]

By the time I read a Superman-related comic (a Legion of Super-Heroes and also a Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen - both in '73), I had been a fan of Superman for five years due to George Reeves and Filmation. I was three then, but the super abilities got me hooked, line, and sinker. I have to believe the vast majority of my generation felt the same way, too. Now as I aged, I wanted more than that, but the powers still did it for me and still do.

Flying and being strong are pretty much the basic roots of his appeal. Most kids like Batman because he has cool gadgets and don’t come to appreciate the deeper psychological factors at play in his stories until they’re older.

[The Darknight Detective]

Flying and being strong are pretty much the basic roots of his appeal. Most kids like Batman because he has cool gadgets and don’t come to appreciate the deeper psychological factors at play in his stories until they’re older.

Agreed. The Bat gizmos and vehicles were indeed the initial appeal for me. I didn't even know about Bruce's motivation to become Batman until years later from my father.

[Jim Kelly]

By the time I read a Superman-related comic (a Legion of Super-Heroes and also a Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen - both in '73), I had been a fan of Superman for five years due to George Reeves and Filmation. I was three then, but the super abilities got me hooked, line, and sinker. I have to believe the vast majority of my generation felt the same way, too. Now as I aged, I wanted more than that, but the powers still did it for me and still do.

As I think I've posted many times before, Superman was ubiquitous when I was growing up. But he was like Robin Hood or Hercules. You didn't need a comic book to play Superman. The syndicated show was on KVOS, which we could get kind of fuzzy on our set in the early 1960s.And there was that one time we went down to the World's Fair in Seattle and I could watch Superman with a clear signal in the hotel room. And later in 1966 there was the Saturday morning cartoon with Bud Collyer doing the voice.

We were a working class family that counted every penny. When I finally did get an allowance, I had to be very picky about what I spent my quarter on. I saved my epic haul of candy and snacks on Hallowe'en night each year and rationed it out to myself over the next many months--just so I wouldn't have to spend precious pennies on treats at the corner store. There were plenty of comic books to be found in the homes of friends and family. So why should I spend my allowance on Superman? There was no convincing argument for doing that. Batman was a different story--and even Batman it took me awhile to spend the money on the comics and not the bubble gum cards or toys.

So there must have been something in the comics themselves that I needed to have that was not being met by just the general availability of Superman through other means.

I would imagine it's the same today. If you can get it for free, why pay for it? A kid at home is not having to pay for the connection fee--so to them everything on their screens is free. If you can get Batman or Spider-Man or Superman for free, for what do you need to spend money on them? That money can be put to better use for such as Digimon X Bandai, Lego, Unicorn Slime.

[bat39]

TDK Returns was incredibly successful. O'Neill and Englehart laid the groundwork for a darker Batman but it was Miller who took it to it's most extreme. I heard from fans at the time that it even made the local news. Then the 1989 Batman movie happened and it was a major turning point in the general public's perception of Batman. Up until that point, the dominant image of Batman was that of Adam West's Batman. A darker, radically different Batman was new and fresh at the time and it even sparked the 'Batmania' leading up to it's release and aftermath. '89 Batman made it's own contribution to blockbuster filmmaking, particularly in tying films and merchandising. It even lead to several darker films inspired or based on comics like Sam Raimi's Darkman and the 90's Dick Tracy movie.

Then Batman hit animation and it turned out to be a huge turning point for that as well. Imagine watching something like Robocop animated show then being hit by something like Batman: The Animated Series that took on a darker, more mature approach to story telling and opened the doors for shows like The Real Adventures Of Johnny Quest, Swat Kats and Gargoyles. Batman wasn't solely responsible for this of course, Simpsons and the rise of anime also played a part in it but Batman certainly helped.

On the comics side, under Denny O'Neil's editorial role in the 90's, the Bat Books expanded to include multiple titles under it's umbrella. Catwoman, Nightwing, Robin and BOP had titles that ran into the 100's. It set the mold for Bat titles and Bat events that they follow to this day.

Even after the Batman movie franchise hit a lull period after Batman & Robin, they still gave Batman a chance again and he made banks with TDK.

Then Batman hit big in Arkham Games which had a lot of people who worked on B:TAS (Dini, Conroy and Hamill) involved. Then the DTV movies adaptated his best stories helped pick up new fanboys. Jason Todd's popularity is significantly owed to the Under The Red Hood movie which was later adapted to the Titans show and the Arkham Games.

Also, as others have mentioned, Batman has a high degree of consistency in his mythology. Even with the consistent reboots. Bruce Wayne's parents were murdered in Crime Alley by Joe Chill, Alfred raised him (this wasn't the case in Golden and Silver Age but it doesn't matter now, Alfred *is* Bruce's father figure now), Gordon is his primary ally in the police force, Dick was the first Robin, Jason died at Joker's hand, Tim is the third Robin and Damian is his biological son by Talia. It's not like the WW mythology where Diana is born from clay by the Goddesses/daughter of Zeus, Cassie is either child/grandchild of Zeus or that weird Nu52 origin, Donna's multiple choice origin, Nubia being other WW's twin sister/just another Amazon or depending on the adaptation, Hippolyta has been with Zeus, Hades and Ares. That's without getting in how to ridiculously fractured the Flash fandom is post Flash Rebirth or how you have multiple GL's vying for panel time but DC at this point can only publish one book. But hey, if you think that's bad, try being a fan of the Hawks. Any of them. Or being a fan of the JSA. Or the Titans. Or worse, the Legion of Superheroes.


The high degree of success is helped by the fact that the same people have worked for years on Batman. Denny O'Neill was a writer and later editor for Batman for two solid decades. He put Frank Miller on Year One. Producer Michael Uslan has his name attached to every single Batman adaptation since the '89 Batman. Bruce Timm has worked on every single Batman cartoon with the exception of 'The Batman' and 'Batman: The Brave and the Bold'. Though even those shows had DCAU alumns like Alan Burnett and James Tucker respectively. Dini, who wrote B:TAS also worked on the Arkham Games.

Also, the Batman comics takes advantage of the *whole* comic book canon from the first Batman to the most recent one. Stories like the 'Case of the Chemical Syndicate' gets retellings every other anniversary. There aren't weird cut off points like Post Crisis, Nu52 and Rebirth like there are for other characters and every character has a place in the mythos and usually with their own book too. Even a once minor supporting character like Lucius Fox now has a fleshed out extended family who have carried their own books and even Batman supporting characters like Harley Quinn has their own show.

Yeah, this is definitely a major factor in Batman's popularity, though I might argue that it's also, to an extent, a product of that popularity. The more popular Batman came, the more fans, casual and hardcore, united behind a single vision of the character and then, beyond a point, began to embrace other visions of the character too without too much infighting and conflict within the fandom.

It's kinda like...Batman began to be considered awesome because of the 80's ''Dark Knight'' vision of the character, but eventually he become so awesome that every version of him was considered awesome - the 60's show, Nolanverse, Batfleck, TAS...hell even Schumacher's Batman (well Batman Forever at any rate) has its fans!

I'd argue that if it had not been for the BATMAN T.V. show and Bat-Mania in 1966, there would not have been the Burton BATMAN in 1989 and the return of Bat-Mania. The first made the second possible. Even though there was a backlash against Bat-Mania in 1968 that stunk up the Dynamic Duo (Robin laid an egg), the generation that grew up on that earlier incarnation would then take their kids to see the new movie. It's that perfect synergy that gave 1989 Bat-Mania an appeal that spanned generations.

Much as the dark tone of the Dark Knight might appeal to serious minded adults--what about the kids? Have you never been in a store where, as soon as a little kid sees a Batman product, their eyes light up and they are just bursting with excitement? How do you explain that?

I grant that kids are attracted to nihilistic things--they like to flirt with disaster--but that doesn't fully explain the attraction of Batman. For me, in 1966, it wasn't just that he was a bat-man, it was that his house was over a cave and in the cave are lots of cool gadgets. He doesn't have any parent to tell him what to do and he's got lots of money, so he can buy as many toys as he wants. He can stay up late after bedtime and explore the night world. Batman is wish fulfillment for a little kid. We don't want seriously to lose our parents--but we can safely imagine that happening and how we would survive and all the things we would do when given that freedom--through the fantasy of being Batman. And you can dress up in a mask and cape and pretend that you are a great hero.

Mind you, a lot of the same things are in Superman. I think kids would love to be Superman, too. The publisher just has lost the ability to key into that fantasy for kids.

Batman became more popular because superman can be paternalistic.The savior concept has become outdated.It's condescending.All the superheroes have that,But these guys aren't blunt with it like mister christ.supes doesn't have another gimmick other than that.We can sometimes get a feel of fakeness from clark that ain't in Batman.When i read batman comic or spiderman comic i wouldn't get a feel that "Is this guy for real?and roll my eyes".Also some superman fans/writers think doing "Moral quandary"(i don't think the character does real introspection.My view) is better than the character doing what it was supposed to do.. cool shit.Batman moves like a freaking bat that glides over and thing that goes bump in the night.Spiderman is a wall crawiling,upside down kissing bug.Superman is an angel with red wings or sun god and most of the time a flying brick..That's not really impressive.Nor something that can engage people.That's saying something considering marvel made a guy with a frisbee for powers visualy awesome.
just my view on things..

Yeah, the wish-fulfilment aspect is a major reason for Batman's popularity. I'd argue in fact that Batman's success in this regard lies in providing wish-fulfilment for both adults and kids alike.

If you're a kid, you can enjoy the cool toys and vehicles, the suit, the colorful villains, the sense of adventure in a spooky-looking but awesome city, the action scenes etc. If you're an adult, you can still enjoy all of that, on top of some fairly mature noir-ish storytelling, a kind of heightened 'realism', a degree of psychological and moral complexity, among other things.

I also sometimes feel that Bruce Wayne's wealth and lifestyle is another powerful wish-fulfilment element. Yeah, Superman can fly, but you never will. You probably won't become a billionaire playboy either but you theoretically could, and in any case you could get a lot of money someday to indulge your hobbies and do what you want to in the world. Wouldn't that be awesome? Isn't that a more attainable fantasy than being able to fly?

There's also the fact that Batman, with all his money and gadgets, is able to proactively pursue his goals without hesitation. He's going to end crime in Gotham by beating the crap out of bad guys and no one's gonna stop him! Contrast this with Superman...for all his power, most versions of him in the popular conscioussness, sadly, are navel-gazers and moralizers. Talking about morality and restraint just isn't as fun as beating up bad guys and chasing them in your cool car.

[The Darknight Detective]

I also sometimes feel that Bruce Wayne's wealth and lifestyle is another powerful wish-fulfilment element. Yeah, Superman can fly, but you never will. You probably won't become a billionaire playboy either but you theoretically could, and in any case you could get a lot of money someday to indulge your hobbies and do what you want to in the world. Wouldn't that be awesome? Isn't that a more attainable fantasy than being able to fly?

I have seen posts here over the years that stated becoming Batman was more difficult than being Superman. Yeah, I don't understand that, either.

[bat39]

I have seen posts here over the years that stated becoming Batman was more difficult than being Superman. Yeah, I don't understand that, either.

LOL.

Yeah becoming Batman was way more difficult for Bruce Wayne in-universe than becoming Superman was for Clark Kent...naturally

But you can't be born an alien who looks human and gets superpowers when exposed to a yellow sun. You can. however, either be born into money or make it, and train to become an expert athlete/martial-artist/detective/scientist. It's highly unlikely you, or any one person, can achieve all of that. But it's at least somewhere within the realm of possibility.

On another level, it's easy to believe that a guy with all the money and power of a Bruce Wayne will use them to proactively implement his agenda (namely, eliminating crime in Gotham). It's a lot harder to imagine someone with the power of a God who doesn't really do much to change the world for the better.

[Jim Kelly]

This reminds me of what Jules Feiffer wrote in THE GREAT COMIC BOOK HEROES. If I recall correctly, he said that when he was a kid becoming Batman seemed like too much hard work and not something he could achieve. On the other hand, Superman was from another planet, so that wasn't a good gameplan for becoming a super-hero. Since Billy Batson had a magic word that turned him into Captain Marvel, that seemed his best bet. The word "SHAZAM!" didn't work for Feiffer, but he thought there might be some other magic word that would work and he tried out various words in hopes of having the right luck.

I encourage others to look up the actual quote--I can't do Feiffer justice.

I think for kids the wish fulfilment works in all cases. It's not like a kid is forced to have only one fantasy. And I also think you don't grow out of that. Adults read comics for the same reason they read them as kids--it's just they need to be crabby about it.

[The Darknight Detective]

This reminds me of what Jules Feiffer wrote in THE GREAT COMIC BOOK HEROES. If I recall correctly, he said that when he was a kid becoming Batman seemed like too much hard work and not something he could achieve. On the other hand, Superman was from another planet, so that wasn't a good gameplan for becoming a super-hero. Since Billy Batson had a magic word that turned him into Captain Marvel, that seemed his best bet. The word "SHAZAM!" didn't work for Feiffer, but he thought there might be some other magic word that would work and he tried out various words in hopes of having the right luck.

I encourage others to look up the actual quote--I can't do Feiffer justice.

I haven't read that book in about 40 years, though I wish I had it in front of me now.

I think for kids the wish fulfilment works in all cases. It's not like a kid is forced to have only one fantasy. And I also think you don't grow out of that. Adults read comics for the same reason they read them as kids--it's just they need to be crabby about it.

[manwhohaseverything]

Actually, becoming any of them is pretty impossible..Kids have no concept of impossible..eff that! i can do 100 pushups,100 situps and 10 mile run every single day..Or eat spinach...Whichever works and be superman.

These characters aren't real.They aren't bound by realism.Clarks alienness is just his heritage and not some great realistic doorway to explain his powers.It never was.

His origin of supes is basically this "the great superman fell from the sky in giant ball of fire....a being, unlike anything the world has ever seen."(if you have seen kung fu panda you know you don't go by the rumours.Although it might have some truths in them)

Goku is an alien.Kids have no problem with that.they don't care.The moment you start preaching to them instead being a friendly neighborhood spider or scary on the outside but kind on the inside cool uncle bats.You loose them.that's that.