When did Batman surpass every other DC hero in popularity? And Why did he?

[BatmanJones]

Yeah, Superman can fly, but you never will. You probably won't become a billionaire playboy either but you theoretically could, and in any case you could get a lot of money someday to indulge your hobbies and do what you want to in the world. Wouldn't that be awesome? Isn't that a more attainable fantasy than being able to fly?

This also serves as a plausible, though dim, explanation for why poor white voters continue voting for candidates that work against the own interests of the poor in favor of massive tax cuts for the rich. I mean, there's gotta be some explanation for that, right? Oops, wrong forum.

[Vordan]

One thing really stands out to me: despite my attempts to nudge the argument in a different direction at the end of the day you guys just keep rehashing the same old Batman vs. Superman arguments, which is fascinating. Despite Aquaman being the second DC character to cross the billion dollar mark at the box office, none of you guys are asking why he isn’t as popular as Batman. Despite WW being the character to save the DCEU nobody is asking why she still isn’t on the same level as Batman yet. Even when other characters succeed in big ways they still aren’t viewed as feasible competitors to Batman, it’s still just Superman. Why is that I wonder? Not to offend anyone but I wonder if the demographic on this forum is simply too old to ever see DC as anything other than Batman, Superman, and the other guys. Do the younger generations view DC in the same light I wonder? Hope not. Speaks to DC’s need to start nurturing the other corners of their mythos

[The True Detective]

One thing really stands out to me: despite my attempts to nudge the argument in a different direction at the end of the day you guys just keep rehashing the same old Batman vs. Superman arguments, which is fascinating. Despite Aquaman being the second DC character to cross the billion dollar mark at the box office, none of you guys are asking why he isn’t as popular as Batman. Despite WW being the character to save the DCEU nobody is asking why she still isn’t on the same level as Batman yet. Even when other characters succeed in big ways they still aren’t viewed as feasible competitors to Batman, it’s still just Superman. Why is that I wonder? Not to offend anyone but I wonder if the demographic on this forum is simply too old to ever see DC as anything other than Batman, Superman, and the other guys. Do the younger generations view DC in the same light I wonder? Hope not. Speaks to DC’s need to start nurturing the other corners of their mythos

I think Superman is used as the character to compare Batman to because he was the undisputed face of DC from his inception to the late 80s. He and Batman are the only 2 characters to ever be at the top of the company. Wonder Woman and Aquaman may currently be more popular at the box office than Superman, but that's only one way of measuring popularity. Superman sells way more merchandise than Wonder Woman and Aquaman, probably sells more than them combined tbh.

Over at Marvel Captain Marvel and Black Panther have movies that outgrossed any Spider-Man movie, tho No Way Home will easily surpass both fairly quickly. Despite that no one questions if those 2 are on Spider-Man's level in terms of brand strength. Superman really is the only other DC character even close to Batman's level of popularity.

[John Venus]

One thing really stands out to me: despite my attempts to nudge the argument in a different direction at the end of the day you guys just keep rehashing the same old Batman vs. Superman arguments, which is fascinating. Despite Aquaman being the second DC character to cross the billion dollar mark at the box office, none of you guys are asking why he isn’t as popular as Batman. Despite WW being the character to save the DCEU nobody is asking why she still isn’t on the same level as Batman yet. Even when other characters succeed in big ways they still aren’t viewed as feasible competitors to Batman, it’s still just Superman. Why is that I wonder? Not to offend anyone but I wonder if the demographic on this forum is simply too old to ever see DC as anything other than Batman, Superman, and the other guys. Do the younger generations view DC in the same light I wonder? Hope not. Speaks to DC’s need to start nurturing the other corners of their mythos

How much have they capitalized on the success of Aquaman and Wonder Woman though? Especially in comparison to Superman and Batman? We are getting an Aquaman show and a WW game but it still feels like there could be more .

Younger, newer viewers takes things at face value. Our knowledge of these characters and what they could be definitely plays a part in our complaints. We know how bad a bloodthirsty WW is but a newer viewer may just accept it because 'oh yeah, she's a warrior and warriors kill'.

As the saying goes, you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

[manwhohaseverything]

One thing really stands out to me: despite my attempts to nudge the argument in a different direction at the end of the day you guys just keep rehashing the same old Batman vs. Superman arguments, which is fascinating. Despite Aquaman being the second DC character to cross the billion dollar mark at the box office, none of you guys are asking why he isn’t as popular as Batman. Despite WW being the character to save the DCEU nobody is asking why she still isn’t on the same level as Batman yet. Even when other characters succeed in big ways they still aren’t viewed as feasible competitors to Batman, it’s still just Superman. Why is that I wonder? Not to offend anyone but I wonder if the demographic on this forum is simply too old to ever see DC as anything other than Batman, Superman, and the other guys. Do the younger generations view DC in the same light I wonder? Hope not. Speaks to DC’s need to start nurturing the other corners of their mythos

@bold i agree.Those questions would be asked soon enough or better yet batman will have competition.If these guys continue to produce adapations in other media and have larger cultural presence that is.If we are talking the past then superman was batman's only competition.Heck! he was the only one who dwarfed him once upon a time(If we are talking superheroes).

[Vordan]

I think Superman is used as the character to compare Batman to because he was the undisputed face of DC from his inception to the late 80s. He and Batman are the only 2 characters to ever be at the top of the company. Wonder Woman and Aquaman may currently be more popular at the box office than Superman, but that's only one way of measuring popularity. Superman sells way more merchandise than Wonder Woman and Aquaman, probably sells more than them combined tbh.

Over at Marvel Captain Marvel and Black Panther have movies that outgrossed any Spider-Man movie, tho No Way Home will easily surpass both fairly quickly. Despite that no one questions if those 2 are on Spider-Man's level in terms of brand strength. Superman really is the only other DC character even close to Batman's level of popularity.

I get that Supes was the previous king at DC, I just don’t get why Supes is still the only one viewed as competition to Batman. If making a billion dollars at the box office can’t get Aquaman into the discussion, what can? Disheartening in a way that while Marvel was able to elevate Iron Man to the point where he’s arguably competing with Spidey as the “face”, DC is incapable of transforming the second character to cross that threshold into a serious competitor to Batman.

[bat39]

I get that Supes was the previous king at DC, I just don’t get why Supes is still the only one viewed as competition to Batman. If making a billion dollars at the box office can’t get Aquaman into the discussion, what can? Disheartening in a way that while Marvel was able to elevate Iron Man to the point where he’s arguably competing with Spidey as the “face”, DC is incapable of transforming the second character to cross that threshold into a serious competitor to Batman.

It's not just about billion dollars at the box office for a particular movie though. We're talking something far more substantial (and yet intangible) than that. The likes of Superman and Batman (and on the Marvel side Spider-Man) are baked into American culture, and indeed global culture, in a way that the vast majority of other superheroes frankly aren't.

Even if you consider Iron Man, who I agree came pretty close to competing with Spider-Man as the ''face'' of Marvel, the bulk of his popularity is rooted in the success of Robert Downey Jr.'s portrayal of the character in his own films and in the Avengers films. But did Iron Man as a franchise or as a brand really become bigger because of the MCU's take on the character? I'm not sure if the comics necessarily skyrocketed in sales. There was one animated series featuring a teenage version of the character back in the late 2000's that no one seems to talk about now. And as time goes by and we don't see RDJ's Tony Stark on-screen, one wonders how long Iron Man will continue to be a rival to Spider-Man as Marvel's top character. Though I feel that Marvel still has time to capitalize on Iron Man's success and build him into a bigger brand beyond just RDJ's version (a reboot/recast that proves successful might help with that considerably).

Aquaman and Wonder Woman's success in the DCEU really doesn't come remotely close to Iron Man's overall success in the MCU anyway. Though I will say that DC has been trying to make Wonder Woman a brand rivaling Superman and Batman (she's one of the few characters with a legacy and longevity to match theirs)...let's see if that happens.

I do believe DC also deserves credit for making Aquaman, Flash and Wonder Woman household names across the globe and not just among fans of the Justice League and Superfriends cartoons! In the case of Flash, the CW show has undoubtedly been a major factor as well.

[Lightning Rider]

I never understood why after the end of the "Cold War," the generation that was slightly younger than mine became so cynical. To me the fall of the Berlin Wall was a moment of celebration and relief. That the Soviet Union didn't descend into war but was liberated rather peacefully in the end made me optimistic. Maybe humanity had a future.

I mean, the trauma Russia & Eastern Europe experienced in the aftermath of shock privatization was certainly nothing to celebrate. To say nothing of the decline of the western working class.

[Jim Kelly]

I mean, the trauma Russia & Eastern Europe experienced in the aftermath of shock privatization was certainly nothing to celebrate. To say nothing of the decline of the western working class.

I have a hard time believing your average North American was informed about the situation in Europe and so deeply traumatized that they needed to see this dark pessimism reflected in their comic books. The breaking up of unions and the firing of workers (ROGER AND ME) that seems much more likely. Young people were looking at their prospects and not feeling too optimistic in the post-Reagan era.

Later, towards the second half of the 1990s, the problems in Europe would have become more obvious but that doesn't explain the dark trend in the late 1980s - early 1990s.

Speaking to Gran on ALL MY CHILDREN in the early 1980s, I remember Tad Martin talking about the threat of the bomb and that kind of thing that weighed upon the minds of his generation. I would imagine, Tad felt some relief that the Doomsday Clock had been turned back fifteen minutes in 1991. Unfortunately, Gran had passed away by then.

Not being alive in a nuclear holocaust seems a lot worse than being alive on the breadline or the unemployment line.

[skyvolt2000]

Not to offend anyone but I wonder if the demographic on this forum is simply too old to ever see DC as anything other than Batman, Superman, and the other guys.

How many Batman books are coming out in 2022?

39 trades and 10 are new material or linked to the new movie. That is just HIM. Lets add in his kids and wife-Harley had the most. 18 more titles. 57 books.
Superman 8
Supergirl 2
Justice League 9
Wonder Woman 7
Aquaman (not counting Aqualad-3) 2
Flash 3
Green Lantern 3
Teen Titans 10 (mainly for the cartoon not the comic)
Shazam 1
Green Arrow 1
Doom Patrol 1
Naomi 1

Meanwhile at Marvel
Black Panther 13 (2 new material)
Shuri 6 (4 new material)
Okeye 1 (new material)
Total for the franchise 20
Spider Man
Miles Morales 5
Peter Parker 15
Ben Riley 3
Venom 3
Spider Gwen none
Silkk 1
Total 27
Ms Marvel 2
Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl 1
Avengers (Young, Savage, West Coast and regular ones) 16
X-Men 21
Cap America 14 (including Truth)
Iron Man 4
Hulk 5
She Hulk 4 (1 new book not a trade)
Thor 8
Jane Foster 2

It's not about being too old, it's about what you SEE. Batman by himself accounts for the majority of new trades and books for DC.

The reason why no one is viewed as feasible as Batman is because the INVESTMENT is not there. Someone took time to invest in the Batman empire and NEVER stopped. Key term-never STOPPED. Everyone else go derailed by management or certain writers or editors. This is what happens when you keep TOXIC folk around. Nobody looked beyond the bottom line.

Yes Batman made you a ton of money. Wonder Woman could have too if you didn't keep a certain editor for 20 years. Green Lantern too if you got a writer who would develop Guy, Kyle and John while Johns was building up Hal.

Nobody questions Carol or Panther because they are happy to see the empire expand.

[mathew101281]

It's not just

Aquaman and Wonder Woman's success in the DCEU really doesn't come remotely close to Iron Man's overall success in the MCU anyway. Though I will say that DC has been trying to make Wonder Woman a brand rivaling Superman and Batman (she's one of the few characters with a legacy and longevity to match theirs)...let's see if that happens.

But they trying to make Wonderwoman a franchise in all the wrong ways. I’ve always said that individual characters grab your interests, but it’s supporting casts, iconic locals and rogue’s galleries that make franchises. In those categories she’s well behind even lesser icons like Green Lantern and Flash. Yes, they give Wonderwoman a lot of screen time and page time, but they don’t put the effort into the things that are going to turn her into a franchise.

[The Darknight Detective]

Speaking to Gran on ALL MY CHILDREN in the early 1980s, I remember Tad Martin talking about the threat of the bomb and that kind of thing that weighed upon the minds of his generation. I would imagine, Tad felt some relief that the Doomsday Clock had been turned back fifteen minutes in 1991. Unfortunately, Gran had passed away by then.

Not being alive in a nuclear holocaust seems a lot worse than being alive on the breadline or the unemployment line.

FWIW, as a teen in the early '80s, I can't recall anybody from my generation actually worrying about nuclear war. Only on TV and in the movies, that is.

[The Darknight Detective]

Double post.

[Jim Kelly]

FWIW, as a teen in the early '80s, I can't recall anybody from my generation actually worrying about nuclear war. Only on TV and in the movies, that is.

It really weighed heavy on me. When I was a little kid, there was still an air raid siren that would go off and we would have to go inside and prepare for a nuclear attack. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, I remember looking up at the sky to see when the planes would come and drop the bombs.

Many of our teachers were young and kind of hippy types who taught us about stuff like this and pollution and how we had to take care of the planet. On sunny days, one of our teachers would have us sit under the maple trees and play his guitar.

In 1971, the students at our school organized to protest the nuclear bomb tests on Amchitka Island. A new group was sending out a boat from Vancouver--the boat was called the Greenpeace. I somehow got my parents to drive me there for the launch of the boat, even though it was clear on the other side of town. It was a bit embarrassing for me, because hippies were there in the park near the boat launch, making out and smoking dope.

When I was in the navy, on our training course we had to go through drills to prepare for nuclear attacks and they showed us graphic documentary film of what had happened to people after a nuclear attack--as well as after other kinds of attacks like nerve gas and mustard gas.

[JackJustMetMartin]

One thing really stands out to me: despite my attempts to nudge the argument in a different direction at the end of the day you guys just keep rehashing the same old Batman vs. Superman arguments, which is fascinating. Despite Aquaman being the second DC character to cross the billion dollar mark at the box office, none of you guys are asking why he isn’t as popular as Batman. Despite WW being the character to save the DCEU nobody is asking why she still isn’t on the same level as Batman yet. Even when other characters succeed in big ways they still aren’t viewed as feasible competitors to Batman, it’s still just Superman. Why is that I wonder? Not to offend anyone but I wonder if the demographic on this forum is simply too old to ever see DC as anything other than Batman, Superman, and the other guys. Do the younger generations view DC in the same light I wonder? Hope not. Speaks to DC’s need to start nurturing the other corners of their mythos

One movie.

A brilliant successful movie, but just the one. Aquaman has been the laughing stock of DC for years, and while public perception is changing, t fact is he's fighting an uphill battle in term of respect.

And really, the core of this is that Superman is synonymous with superhero. Like if you ask a person to name three superheros, chances are Superman is the first one they mention. You can't measure that, it's just that he's so deeply ingrained in human culture at this stage. Everyone and their mother knows who Superman is, they might not have a clue about any of his stories, supporting characters, or anything substantial but they know about Superman.

Like people just don't register these characters in the same way. There's been such a deluge of Superman and Batman content, spanning nearly a hundred years that they are both just part and parcel of everyday life. You go to school and see Batman and Superman bags, pencil cases, clothing. A successful movie is step one, step two is so much harder.