When did Batman surpass every other DC hero in popularity? And Why did he?

[Jon-El]

I saw the Super Friends being offered on HBO Max or something and thought the image used to promote it was interesting.

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No doubt when I started reading comics Superman was the #1 DC character but at least in the comics, there was room for other characters to stand out. I mean I got into the Batman, Flash, & a bunch of characters just fine. Just a different time now and the sure money is on Batman. I think when I started reading Marvel, the main characters were Spider-man, Hulk, and actually the Thing!

[bat39]

One movie.

A brilliant successful movie, but just the one. Aquaman has been the laughing stock of DC for years, and while public perception is changing, t fact is he's fighting an uphill battle in term of respect.

And really, the core of this is that Superman is synonymous with superhero. Like if you ask a person to name three superheros, chances are Superman is the first one they mention. You can't measure that, it's just that he's so deeply ingrained in human culture at this stage. Everyone and their mother knows who Superman is, they might not have a clue about any of his stories, supporting characters, or anything substantial but they know about Superman.

Like people just don't register these characters in the same way. There's been such a deluge of Superman and Batman content, spanning nearly a hundred years that they are both just part and parcel of everyday life. You go to school and see Batman and Superman bags, pencil cases, clothing. A successful movie is step one, step two is so much harder.

This.

Superman, Batman and, arguably, Spider-Man have transcended the superhero genre in terms of their sheer predominance in pop-culture. The likes of Iron Man, Flash, Aquaman etc. are among the most popular superheroes and biggest superhero brands on the planet, but they are a rung below Superman, Batman and Spider-Man for sure.

I think Wonder Woman is a grey area where she could potentially reach Superman's level of popularity, since she too has had a significant place in pop-cultural history. And on the Marvel side, Iron Man did come close to Spider-Man's popularity levels during the peak of the MCU, but it remains to be seen if that momentum carries forward without RDJ's Tony Stark on-screen.

I saw the Super Friends being offered on HBO Max or something and thought the image used to promote it was interesting.

612684A1-0157-47F2-BA5F-D706C260E5AC.jpg E1758364-4753-4A03-BEDE-836167AFF156.jpg

No doubt when I started reading comics Superman was the #1 DC character but at least in the comics, there was room for other characters to stand out. I mean I got into the Batman, Flash, & a bunch of characters just fine. Just a different time now and the sure money is on Batman. I think when I started reading Marvel, the main characters were Spider-man, Hulk, and actually the Thing!

The 70's were an interesting era in this regard, since I feel it's a period of time when things were a lot more equitable among DC's top characters.

Superman utterly dominated the comics landscape, and DC in particular, in the 50's and 60's. But in the late 60's, Batman first started to gain mainstream appeal through the TV show, and in the comics we had the renaissance of the early 70's with the ''Darknight Detective'' interpretation. Also, thanks to appearances in animation, and in Wonder Woman's case the Lynda Carter series, Aquaman and Wonder Woman started to gain a fair bit of mainstream exposure too. I may be wrong, but I don't think the Superman movies of the late 70's/early 80's necessarily did much to re-establish Superman's dominance (and by then I guess the general feeling that Superman's comics were too kiddish had started to set in).

So this status quo persisted until the late 80's when Batman's dominance began...

[Vordan]

One movie.

A brilliant successful movie, but just the one. Aquaman has been the laughing stock of DC for years, and while public perception is changing, t fact is he's fighting an uphill battle in term of respect.

And really, the core of this is that Superman is synonymous with superhero. Like if you ask a person to name three superheros, chances are Superman is the first one they mention. You can't measure that, it's just that he's so deeply ingrained in human culture at this stage. Everyone and their mother knows who Superman is, they might not have a clue about any of his stories, supporting characters, or anything substantial but they know about Superman.

Like people just don't register these characters in the same way. There's been such a deluge of Superman and Batman content, spanning nearly a hundred years that they are both just part and parcel of everyday life. You go to school and see Batman and Superman bags, pencil cases, clothing. A successful movie is step one, step two is so much harder.

They don’t know who Superman is actually. They know memes about him but when it comes to a deeper level of understanding about his character and world? They don’t know him at all because he’s been horribly underserved by recent adaptions of his world. Take a look at how many people are talking shit about him. I think we’re at a stage where we can honestly say Aquaman is more popular than Superman is.

[The True Detective]

They don’t know who Superman is actually. They know memes about him but when it comes to a deeper level of understanding about his character and world? They don’t know him at all because he’s been horribly underserved by recent adaptions of his world. Take a look at how many people are talking shit about him. I think we’re at a stage where we can honestly say Aquaman is more popular than Superman is.

Just last year a survey asked American's their favorite superhero, Superman won: https://www.superherohype.com/comics...ular-superhero He's way more popular than Aquaman, who for those wondering was 7th on the list. I know that's just the US and not globally but shows Superman is still extremely popular. 1 billion dollar movie isn't enough to erase decades of cultural dominance. Would you say Captain Marvel is more popular than Wonder Woman since she has a billion dollar movie and Wonder Woman doesn't? Movies are only one part of things.

[Jim Kelly]

When it comes to Warner movies, they can't get their motor in gear for any comic book content. They might be able to get out a raft of movies, of all different flavours, in one year and one or two of those might be a big hit. But then it takes them ages to get a sequel made, by which time all the excitement for the first movie has died down.

Even for Batman movies this is the case and it's much worse for all the other super-heroes and for all of the other comic book movies from the wealth of source material in their back catalogue. Movies can be caught in production hell for literally decades.

It's nice that there is such a wide variety in the kinds of movies that Warner can put out. But the advantage of the Disney-Marvel production machine is that, because all the movies are on brand, the audience is satisfied almost as much by an Ant-Man movie as a Thor movie. The sequel to BLACK PANTHER may have met with tragic barriers to its sequel, but AVENGERS: ENDGAME kept the faithful satisfied.

If Warner could ever pull it together and generate content at a consistent rate like that, then they might blow the bloody doors off.

[John Venus]

They don’t know who Superman is actually. They know memes about him but when it comes to a deeper level of understanding about his character and world? They don’t know him at all because he’s been horribly underserved by recent adaptions of his world. Take a look at how many people are talking shit about him. I think we’re at a stage where we can honestly say Aquaman is more popular than Superman is.

I don't think we're there yet.

But the field is more competitive now than before. Superman's no longer the only boy scout hero everybody knows. Captain America is now just as popular and recognized world wide. Shazam is *finally* getting his due on screen. Mainstream audiences are catching up to 'evil Superman' with Homelander, Omni and the MCU Ikaris.

Batman being the billionaire, peak human with a wide skill set and the 'grounded superhero' was cool when he was the only guy doing it. But now you have guys like Daredevil, Captain America, Daredevil, Spider-Man (more popular now than ever), Black Panther and soon Moon Knight.

The real problem is WB's inability to redefine these characters for a new generation and not giving creatives the backing and budget needed to allow other characters to shine. They're too busy chasing the ghost of their past successes. MoS was supposed to be new take yet they still shoved in Donner villains. From Bale to Affleck to Pattinson, the main connecting thread of all their takes on Batman is to double down even harder on making him darker and edgier than any previous iteration. It's lazy and uncreative. Why can't we get a live action Superman movie where he fights Brainiac or a Batman movie where he fights Clayface?

[The True Detective]

I don't think we're there yet.

But the field is more competitive now than before. Superman's no longer the only boy scout hero everybody knows. Captain America is now just as popular and recognized world wide. Shazam is *finally* getting his due on screen. Mainstream audiences are catching up to 'evil Superman' with Homelander, Omni and the MCU Ikaris.

Batman being the billionaire, peak human with a wide skill set and the 'grounded superhero' was cool when he was the only guy doing it. But now you have guys like Daredevil, Captain America, Daredevil, Spider-Man (more popular now than ever), Black Panther and soon Moon Knight.

The real problem is WB's inability to redefine these characters for a new generation and not giving creatives the backing and budget needed to allow other characters to shine. They're too busy chasing the ghost of their past successes. MoS was supposed to be new take yet they still shoved in Donner villains. From Bale to Affleck to Pattinson, the main connecting thread of all their takes on Batman is to double down even harder on making him darker and edgier than any previous iteration. It's lazy and uncreative. Why can't we get a live action Superman movie where he fights Brainiac or a Batman movie where he fights Clayface?

Batman fighting Clayface has nothing to do with darkness, the ultimate dark gritty Batman story is TDKR and he fought Superman in it. They could introduce supernatural villains in the Reeves movies and the tone would remain dark. Batfleck was darker than Bale's Batman and he was in a world full of meta humans. Spider-Man hasn't changed at all in his movies either, funny you bring up him being more popular than ever when the MCU films have him in high school in lighthearted movies...just like the Raimi and Webb movies.

Those similar characters to Batman and Superman you named outside of Spider-Man are nowhere near as popular as them. Outside of their portrayals in the MCU or on Netflix in Daredevil's case they're not exactly it killing in other mediums. For all their current popularity where are Iron Man and Caps' solo video games, shows or cartoons? If it isn't an Avengers branded project they don't do much on their own outside the movies.

[Alpha]

I agree with the notion that DC is in danger of making Batman into a bland property.

I tend to underestimate some things. I didn't think Marvel would sell out for the dumb "nostalgia trip" of Endgame and Spider-man No Way Home.

I didn't think Warner Bros would invest that much into a James Wan directed Aquaman movie to the point that we would have the first underwater Lord of the Rings level epic clash of armies with sharks and crabs and octopus and krakens. And I didn't expect people to appreciate that to the point that it would make 1 Billion +.

I also didn't expect Black Panther to make 1 Billion + and become a cultural milestone, with him and his family becoming THE BIG THING. To this day I still don't get how Frozen became the queen of childhood fantasies.

But I think the world is getting used to this idea that there are fictional worlds all around us that keep progressing, towards the next step of these epic sagas. I look at Superman and he's seen as the patriarch, the status quo. Not worthy of enthusiasm.

Batman is really inching towards becoming the same thing in the next few years.

[Alpha]

And again, I'm not implying that Batman will become worthless, just that he won't be able to grab as much enthusiasm as he has over the last decade

[John Venus]

Batman fighting Clayface has nothing to do with darkness, the ultimate dark gritty Batman story is TDKR and he fought Superman in it. They could introduce supernatural villains in the Reeves movies and the tone would remain dark. Batfleck was darker than Bale's Batman and he was in a world full of meta humans. Spider-Man hasn't changed at all in his movies either, funny you bring up him being more popular than ever when the MCU films have him in high school in lighthearted movies...just like the Raimi and Webb movies.

Those similar characters to Batman and Superman you named outside of Spider-Man are nowhere near as popular as them. Outside of their portrayals in the MCU or on Netflix in Daredevil's case they're not exactly it killing in other mediums. For all their current popularity where are Iron Man and Caps' solo video games, shows or cartoons? If it isn't an Avengers branded project they don't do much on their own outside the movies.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be dark and gritty. I'm saying I want a Batman that gives me something new. We have never Batman fight Clayface on screen before. It would have been something fresh.

Also you're missing the point; people have more options than just Batman when it comes to either billionaire's with cool gadgets/street level heroes dealing with ordinary crime/characters at peak human levels. Cap had a game (Captain America: Super Soldier) that was good enough to be cited as an influence on his fighting style in Winter Soldier, Black Panther dominated his portion of the Avengers game and it makes sense for these character to appear together since they are meant to be a part of the same universe. Marvel isn't milking the fuck out of one franchise. They're being more egaltarian and allowing other characters to take the spot light.

[Chubistian]

The box office is important, as is merchandising, but I think the fundamental is how these characters are rooted into people's mind, despite the years and tendencies. It's like the test of "name me a soda", or "name me a fast food chain": most people will go with Coca-Cola and McDonald's as the first ones that come to mind. Aquaman is popular nowadays, but how many would put him as the first superhero that comes to mind? How many knows that he's Arthur Curry or that Mera is his partner?

Everyone knows Superman, that he is Clark Kent, and that his love interest is Lois Lane
Everyone knows Batman, that he is Bruce Wayne, and that he is partnered with Robin and faces Joker and Catwoman (who is at times a love interest)

So, maybe Superman isn't at his best nowadays, when talking about how many people are interested in him as a superhero, but he will never be forgotten. He has trascended the pecuniary (box office, merchandising), and has become a symbol as relevant and everlasting as Sherlock Holmes, or Mickey Mouse.

[Alpha]

So, maybe Superman isn't at his best nowadays, when talking about how many people are interested in him as a superhero, but he will never be forgotten. He has trascended the pecuniary (box office, merchandising), and has become a symbol as relevant and everlasting as Sherlock Holmes, or Mickey Mouse.

That's great for merchandising. But what we're talking about is in fact box office. Look at how much money Superman Returns, Man of Steel, Batman v Superman and Justice League made.

Or look at Man of Tomorrow. Nice movie, but it still didn't get much attention.

Now I look at something like The Batman and it feels exactly like The Dark Knight (12 years ago).

And like, people still watch CSI. But it's nowhere near the moneymaker it was decades ago, even though we have all these spin offs that try to give an alternative to the classic thing.

[Alpha]

Actually I confused this thread with another one. Nevermind

[The Darknight Detective]

They don’t know who Superman is actually. They know memes about him but when it comes to a deeper level of understanding about his character and world? They don’t know him at all because he’s been horribly underserved by recent adaptions of his world. Take a look at how many people are talking shit about him. I think we’re at a stage where we can honestly say Aquaman is more popular than Superman is.

They know him due to numerous comic books, cartoons, movie serials, feature-length films, TV shows, games, references in all media, etc. for over 80 years, just like they know Lois Lane is the #1 superhero love interest of them all.

[Jim Kelly]

Maybe not the Superman movie I most want, but I think the best approach would be to start with Clark Kent as a boy. I know it's been done in SMALLVILLE and MAN OF STEEL, but people could always use a refresh. Make a whole movie (or two or three) about young Clark being brought up by the Kents, discovering his super-powers, playing with Krypto, learning about his origins. I think that's the kind of relatable narrative that would bring audiences on board.