Ugh what is up with Marvel lately?

[The Observer]

It depends on how a 'gimmick' is introduced. I think, in the 80s, a lot of changes were made that could be seen, in hindsight, to have been 'gimmicks'. Examples include Spider-Man's black costume, Jim Rhodes being Iron Man, Magneto attempting to reform, Steve Rogers being replaced as Captain America, the Grey Hulk and so on. However, most of these were sold with total conviction, often by writers on a creative roll at the time, and good stories were told as a result of at least some of these changes that wouldn't have been possible had the status quo been maintained. Also, in at least one case, Spidey's new costume, they got around the creepy alien side of things and had their cake and ate it too by having the Black Cat give Spider-Man three cloth costumes that looked just like the symbiote, but were just regular cloth, so that, in theory, had McFarlane not made such a deal of wanting to revert Spidey to the red and blues, he could have remained in this look from there on in and it would (presumably) have become accepted by now, in much the same way as nobody clamours to revert Daredevil to his yellow costume.
Whether it's a result of the increased age of today's comic consumers, or due to the ongoing cycle of resurrected characters, restored status quo and so on, people are generally more cynical now, readers and creators both, and none of these wild changes, which still can inspire a good story arc (I quite enjoyed Superior Spider-Man, having expected I'd hate it), ever feel like they could stick.

[Mark]

It bleeds, it sells, it leads.

[just another user]

So a "gimmick" isn't necessarily a bad thing? That seems to be what Mr. 'kabe is saying.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the marriage wasn't a "gimmick".

[ishikabe]

Without the internet, we wouldn't think of these comics as 'gimmicks'.

Not true. I thought Heroes Reborn was a huge gimmick before I even read opinions about titles on the internet.

[JJ Fiegel]

This is the state of Big 2 comics. You're not going to get bold, fresh stories, and if you do it won't last long. Marvel and Dc are essentially reselling you the same stories with a different coat of paint. This is how it is, and I don't see it changing. There can be change, sweeping change, but it won't last. These characters will still be relatively the same in X number of years.

There have always been gimmicks, and so maybe you just don't like the gimmicks of today. You have two options: you accept this, and continue to buy comics by writers you like or comics about the characters you like; or you realize that you have moved past superhero comics and buy indie comics.

[Marvel Forever]

I have a feeling that something major is going to happen in 2015. It could be a merging of the Ultimate Universe with the Marvel Universe? It might be that Marvel will kill off several major characters? Maybe Marvel will finally end the Reed Richards-Susan Storm marriage? Perhaps Fantastic Four will be cancelled? Maybe even most of the X- titles will be axed, in an effort to really stick it to Fox? Last but not least, perhaps we will have the much rumored reboot of the Marvel Universe? Hang on to your seats, fellow Marvelites, for we have not seen anything yet!

[ishikabe]

I have a feeling that something major is going to happen in 2015. It could be a merging of the Ultimate Universe with the Marvel Universe? It might be that Marvel will kill off several major characters? Maybe Marvel will finally end the Reed Richards-Susan Storm marriage? Perhaps Fantastic Four will be cancelled? Maybe even most of the X- titles will be axed, in an effort to really stick it to Fox? Last but not least, perhaps we will have the much rumored reboot of the Marvel Universe? Hang on to your seats, fellow Marvelites, for we have not seen anything yet!

Who knows what gimmicks are coming from the House of Gimmicks next?

This is the state of Big 2 comics. You're not going to get bold, fresh stories, and if you do it won't last long. Marvel and Dc are essentially reselling you the same stories with a different coat of paint. This is how it is, and I don't see it changing. There can be change, sweeping change, but it won't last. These characters will still be relatively the same in X number of years.

There have always been gimmicks, and so maybe you just don't like the gimmicks of today. You have two options: you accept this, and continue to buy comics by writers you like or comics about the characters you like; or you realize that you have moved past superhero comics and buy indie comics.

I almost gave up comics with what Marvel has been doing recently. I've always refused to by DC comics, that's how big of a Marvel was I used to be. Now I mainly buy Image Comics. I see a lot of creativity and awesome artwork coming out of Image. That's another beef I have with Marvel, what happened to all the good artwork? Not going to name any names because many comic creators visit these boards, but I don't see the likes of Jim Lee or McFarlane anywhere near Marvel right now.

[Ravin' Ray]

That's another beef I have with Marvel, what happened to all the good artwork? Not going to name any names because many comic creators visit these boards, but I don't see the likes of Jim Lee or McFarlane anywhere near Marvel right now.

Marvel has some excellent artists on board. Deodato, Yu and Pagulayan come to mind (admittedly the latter two are fellow Filipinos so I have a bias).

[Pat Thomas]

Who knows what gimmicks are coming from the House of Gimmicks next?



I almost gave up comics with what Marvel has been doing recently. I've always refused to by DC comics, that's how big of a Marvel was I used to be. Now I mainly buy Image Comics. I see a lot of creativity and awesome artwork coming out of Image. That's another beef I have with Marvel, what happened to all the good artwork? Not going to name any names because many comic creators visit these boards, but I don't see the likes of Jim Lee or McFarlane anywhere near Marvel right now.

Just curious; Are you referring to the indie look being used in more marvel books instead of a more "real" look? Or are you just unimpressed with the art of the guys who do realistic
work for Marvel? Because there are some really good ones still. The indie look is kind of what's popular right now. As soon as it becomes widespread in most books, people will decide
that it's too mainstream, and then more traditional art will probably return.

[TakoM]

The simple answer is that gimmicks sell.

The market is failing, and even though we've had a few years of solid growth (since 2011) its still dying. The powers that own these major franchises have a desire to keep these Intellectual Properties as close to their well-known status quo as possible in order to market and profit accordingly. And that's an understandable business standpoint, even if its not a very good creative one.

Additionally, since the 60's the comic industry has aimed itself at adults more and more, to the point where the younger demographics have been lost to them.

So....business restrictions forcing things to stay essentially the same. An aging fanbase that grows bored with the same old routine. The only thing left is to push empty, shock value gimmicks and try to dress it up as "real" change.

You want some good Marvel? Try Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Hawkeye, Avengers and New Avengers. The first three are all character driven and lots of fun, the Marvels are throwbacks to classic comic book style, before things got uber serious, and Hawkeye is like an indie approach to the character. The Avengers titles are, admittedly, not for everyone, but its the sort of big concept, end-of-everything stories a group like that warrants. There's a lot of moral ambiguity there, but that's the point and half the fun.

I wouldn't say gimmicks are an issue if there are events like huge cosmic crossover I love it. The problem I have with how marvel made it's comics is like you said they aiming more and more for adults. Even as an adult I don't like psychological thrillers like in New Avengers for the most part I avoid such titles, the other part is how they treat the old classic figures:
Undo Spidey and Mary Jane's marriage, changing the past history of several characters so that they look grimmer, let them run crazy for no good reason in CW and AvX.

I know they did make a few new readers by making the marvel universe darker and darker but also alienated the old fans with stuff like this, I quitted several times reading Marvel Comics since Joey Quesada leads MC I don't like him really.

The whole thing again reminds me of Stargate Universe were the production also said we making it darker because we are out of ideas which was kinda bullshit because
1.)There were a lot of ideas for stories which weren't told alone in the fan boards.
2.)It killed the show because much fans were alienated

The UU were broken not because the flow of the story goes another way than in the MU-616, it's because too many main characters are dead for a universe that aiming for younger audience, it went to fast to dark.

[Qwathings]

Comic books have always lived on gimmicks. When they were first published the gimmick was that they were collected editions of newspaper strips. When Superman appeared and started selling great, publishing stories of superheroes became the gimmick of choice. All through the decades comic companies have sought out ideas, genres, and gimmicks that will sell the most comics. Their job is, and has always been, to sell comics. Throughout the history of the industry, gimmicks have sold comics.

[JJ Fiegel]

Who knows what gimmicks are coming from the House of Gimmicks next?



I almost gave up comics with what Marvel has been doing recently. I've always refused to by DC comics, that's how big of a Marvel was I used to be. Now I mainly buy Image Comics. I see a lot of creativity and awesome artwork coming out of Image. That's another beef I have with Marvel, what happened to all the good artwork? Not going to name any names because many comic creators visit these boards, but I don't see the likes of Jim Lee or McFarlane anywhere near Marvel right now.

What? Marvel has an awesome stable of artists right now. They have Aja, Lieber, Del Mundo, Opena, Acuna, Immonen, Pichelli, Schiti, Trad Moore, etc. DC can keep Jim Lee. Hell, Lee isn't even the best at DC right now.

[pageturner]

Comics have been using gimmicks since it was decided that Batman and Superman lived in the same world and would meet.

You might not like the current gimmicks but so what none of us need to like everything.

Creatives should only be creating stories that interest them trying to please anyone else if a fools errand. To paraphrase the late great Mickey Spillane " We don't have readers We have customers".

[Doc Omega]

I enjoy what I enjoy and am quick to compliment the stories and even gimmicks that I do. I am equally vocal about what I dislike and am set in my ways as to why I feel that way. However I do not attack people who enjoy the books, stories, etc that I do not. I respect that others have different tastes than I do because that's really all it boils down to.

[Prof. Warren]

To some fans anything that alters the status quo is a "gimmick" because it might attract new readers. Anything that might bring in new fans is perceived as a shameless stunt to generate sales. It's part of the mindset among some fans that wants comics to be an exclusive club that closed the gates to new members after they joined.

But Marvel has been telling the kind of stories that some now want to label as "gimmicks" since the earliest days of Marvel. Stories like this:

Amazing_Spider-Man_50.jpg

Spider-Man quits? Wow, is it permanent? No, it's a dramatic story that grabs your attention by promising to shake things up. And in doing so it likely compelled plenty of kids who had either never bought a comic or had strayed away from comics to pick it up. But does that make it a gimmick? After all, Marvel had no real intention of having Peter Parker retire. No, it was a story - just like the ones we see today where heroes die and are reborn, or quit, or change allegiances, or costumes, and so on. It's a Marvel tradition - a comic book tradition, really - not some new trend to be railing against.