Batman #118 Discussion/Spoilers

[Frontier]

They probably wanted to distance from King run, I remember that huge emphasis on Bruce/Selina relationship was actually one of the big complains people had at that point. So, probably that's the reason.

Especially at the expense of Bruce's competency and emotional health, or his relationship with anyone other than Selina.

[baumblume]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[marvelprince]

They probably wanted to distance from King run, I remember that huge emphasis on Bruce/Selina relationship was actually one of the big complains people had at that point. So, probably that's the reason.

Doubtful as the reason fans complained in the first place was cause of the bait and switch editorial with the wedding showing people actually wanted them together.

[HsssH]

I think that there were many people who wanted and didn't want them together. What we got didn't work for either group.

[lilyrose]

Doubtful as the reason fans complained in the first place was cause of the bait and switch editorial with the wedding showing people actually wanted them together.

I agree. People were pissed because they DIDN'T get married. That's where all the complaining about Tom King started. Before that people were honestly loving the run. That was the turning point.

And then he keeps them separated for like a YEAR and people started really going in on his run and dumping on it, etc. I don't think that's an argument for them as a couple being the reason for his whole run being bad, it was splitting them that pissed people off.

And now they're split again for seemingly no reason at all? It doesn't make sense.

[Astralabius]

I agree. People were pissed because they DIDN'T get married. That's where all the complaining about Tom King started. Before that people were honestly loving the run. That was the turning point.

And then he keeps them separated for like a YEAR and people started really going in on his run and dumping on it, etc. I don't think that's an argument for them as a couple being the reason for his whole run being bad, it was splitting them that pissed people off.

And now they're split again for seemingly no reason at all? It doesn't make sense.

No, a lot of people were honestly tired of batcat batcat batcat boatstreet boatstreet boatstreet by the time we reached City of Bane and were ready for Batman to focus on something that wasn't Catwoman. A lot of characters and relationships suffered because of King's attempt to elevate her importance in Bruce's life and had no desire for that to continue. Plus, I'm pretty sure a lot of the hype for Batman #50 came from the believe that Bruce actually getting married in the main timeline would be an issue worth collecting. Never underestimate the speculators market.

I would say King's run went bad way before #50, a lot of people who look back say it was solid until the engagement happened and then the quality dropped for them unless they were major batcat shippers.

Making them split up made a lot of sense actually. Batcat was King's big focus for his long run and it's understandable if Tynion and DC felt that in order for Tynion to really do his own thing that relationship needed to end. They also knew that King was writing an entire book about his take on their relationship, so why waste time on the main book also making them a big focus?
Plus, Selina's solo was still selling well and it's way easier to write that if she's not strictly tied to what is going on in Bruce's books.

Also guys, come on. Even if they went through with the wedding, comics are cyclical in nature, that marriage would have sooner or later ended in death, divorce or reboot. Neither Bruce nor Selina are made for lasting relationships in main canon.

[marvelprince]

No, a lot of people were honestly tired of batcat batcat batcat boatstreet boatstreet boatstreet by the time we reached City of Bane and were ready for Batman to focus on something that wasn't Catwoman. A lot of characters and relationships suffered because of King's attempt to elevate her importance in Bruce's life and had no desire for that to continue. Plus, I'm pretty sure a lot of the hype for Batman #50 came from the believe that Bruce actually getting married in the main timeline would be an issue worth collecting. Never underestimate the speculators market.

I would say King's run went bad way before #50, a lot of people who look back say it was solid until the engagement happened and then the quality dropped for them unless they were major batcat shippers.

Making them split up made a lot of sense actually. Batcat was King's big focus for his long run and it's understandable if Tynion and DC felt that in order for Tynion to really do his own thing that relationship needed to end. They also knew that King was writing an entire book about his take on their relationship, so why waste time on the main book also making them a big focus?
Plus, Selina's solo was still selling well and it's way easier to write that if she's not strictly tied to what is going on in Bruce's books.

Also guys, come on. Even if they went through with the wedding, comics are cyclical in nature, that marriage would have sooner or later ended in death, divorce or reboot. Neither Bruce nor Selina are made for lasting relationships in main canon.

Revisionist history. I get it’s cool to hate on Kings run now but from the proposal up the Bane reveal being behind everything was absolutely peak hype. Things did start to cool after people were pissed they didn’t go through with the wedding, and then there was the Knightmares arc which lost a lot of people (me included, I had to wait that one out) leading up to Damian watching Alfred die.

On a related note I find it hilarious people are so up in arms about how Tom focused on Selina vs Damian when Synders run barely featured Damian at all. I think it would’ve been nice to have more of him since the entire arc ended up being about the relationship between fathers and their sons but the uproar that a writer used a different supporting character (something they all pick and choose) is weird to me.

And I don’t think anyone expected the relationship to last but the fact is they made a big deal about it, didn’t go through with the thing and then just sorta dumped it. No convo, no inner dialogue just let’s hope the fans forget. Sloppy.

[adrikito]

I was not expecting LEX Luthor here

I wonder if he is who made this possible and is allied with Abyss

[exile001]

I agree. People were pissed because they DIDN'T get married. That's where all the complaining about Tom King started. Before that people were honestly loving the run. That was the turning point.

And then he keeps them separated for like a YEAR and people started really going in on his run and dumping on it, etc. I don't think that's an argument for them as a couple being the reason for his whole run being bad, it was splitting them that pissed people off.

Exactly, which I never understood this turn as he always said he had 100 issues. Anyone who thought they'd be married in the MIDDLE of the run were kidding themselves as that's not how serialised storytelling works. You overcome obstacles for the happy ending. Do these people walk out halfway through a romantic comedy?

The wedding was always planned for the end. But DC's gotta DC and killed that, too.

[exile001]

Interesting. I tried looking up some reporting on that, since I don't pay for Substack, but couldn't find any (Bleeding Cool) on that. I believe it though.

Same. I was hoping it'd all be detailed here because a, I'm not paying for Substack and b, I'm old so don't understand Substack. Lol.

[Chubistian]

Exactly, which I never understood this turn as he always said he had 100 issues. Anyone who thought they'd be married in the MIDDLE of the run were kidding themselves as that's not how serialised storytelling works. You overcome obstacles for the happy ending. Do these people walk out halfway through a romantic comedy?

The wedding was always planned for the end. But DC's gotta DC and killed that, too.

I put big part of the blame on DC. They did a big marketing campaign, with tie-ins an all. I get it, to make it a twist, pleople needed to actually believed it could happen, but it wasn't necessary to take it that far. I think it's a shame that the not-wedding had a bad impact on the run, as one of the best arcs, Cold Days, came out right off the gate afterwards.

There were people that didn't like the run already, but the not-wedding was the deal breaker for many.

As someone who did like the run, I did't get why some kept reading just to hate on it though.

I skipped Tynion IV's run because the premise didn't grab me, but Williamson's run, at least from what I've read, seems like a type of run I would enjoy. I will wait and see what people says as the first arc gets completed, as I was excited over Mariko Tamaki and Dan Mora's Tec run, but what I've seen since doesn't look like my type of Batman comicbook.

[dietrich]

Revisionist history. I get it’s cool to hate on Kings run now but from the proposal up the Bane reveal being behind everything was absolutely peak hype. Things did start to cool after people were pissed they didn’t go through with the wedding, and then there was the Knightmares arc which lost a lot of people (me included, I had to wait that one out) leading up to Damian watching Alfred die.

On a related note I find it hilarious people are so up in arms about how Tom focused on Selina vs Damian when Synders run barely featured Damian at all. I think it would’ve been nice to have more of him since the entire arc ended up being about the relationship between fathers and their sons but the uproar that a writer used a different supporting character (something they all pick and choose) is weird to me.

And I don’t think anyone expected the relationship to last but the fact is they made a big deal about it, didn’t go through with the thing and then just sorta dumped it. No convo, no inner dialogue just let’s hope the fans forget. Sloppy.

People were up in arms about Selina v All of Bruce's other relationships not just Damian. All his kids and everyone close to him.

When Alfred says stuff that since his folks were killed Bruce hasn't smiled or had happiness until that night on the rooftop. That wasn't just slight on Damian but on all of other Bruce's relationships.

People were complaining about the focus on Selina and their relationship long before the fake out. This very site discussed each issue as it released and there were numerous complaints and readers who dropped the run due to the inclusion of Selina.

To say that fans weren't complaining before is factual incorrect. They were.

[dietrich]

Exactly, which I never understood this turn as he always said he had 100 issues. Anyone who thought they'd be married in the MIDDLE of the run were kidding themselves as that's not how serialised storytelling works. You overcome obstacles for the happy ending. Do these people walk out halfway through a romantic comedy?

The wedding was always planned for the end. But DC's gotta DC and killed that, too.

King kept saying he had a 100 issues and Lee and Didio came out and straight up said a married batman was for elseworlds just before #50 dropped.

King knew the two weren't going to get married even if he got to 100.

he said it himself, that he ended his run exactly how he wanted and the last 15 issues were going to be villain of the month issues.

[dietrich]

I enjoyed this issue. I hope Williamson focuses on Batman and we see him shine. I'm ready to see batman being cool and doing cool hero/detective things.

[Korath]

Exactly, which I never understood this turn as he always said he had 100 issues. Anyone who thought they'd be married in the MIDDLE of the run were kidding themselves as that's not how serialised storytelling works. You overcome obstacles for the happy ending. Do these people walk out halfway through a romantic comedy?

The wedding was always planned for the end. But DC's gotta DC and killed that, too.

And I'm glad they did. BatCat, as depicted by King was a toxic waste and I'm really happy to never see Bruce and Selina in a romantic relationship ever again, in or outside comics. That's how bad it burned me. I'd rather Bruce remains forever celibate and have his real family out of the Batfamily, thank you very much.