Batman #118 Discussion/Spoilers

[Aahz]

I agree. People were pissed because they DIDN'T get married. That's where all the complaining about Tom King started. Before that people were honestly loving the run. That was the turning point.

Honestly I think many readers where just so hyped for the wedding that they kind of overlooked the flaws of his run before, or thought it that it would be worth it in the end.

I don't really think that any of the stories he wrote before the wedding were all that great, I mean some of them had an interesting premiss but the execution was usually not that great.

[Frontier]

Honestly I think many readers where just so hyped for the wedding that they kind of overlooked the flaws of his run before, or thought it that it would be worth it in the end.

I don't really think that any of the stories he wrote before the wedding were all that great, I mean some of them had an interesting premiss but the execution was usually not that great.

People started getting a little out of sorts with the "Bat/Cat" stuff and Catwoman being so OP early enough, and then King's narrative/characterization issues hit too.

[Iclifton]

Honestly I think many readers where just so hyped for the wedding that they kind of overlooked the flaws of his run before, or thought it that it would be worth it in the end.

I don't really think that any of the stories he wrote before the wedding were all that great, I mean some of them had an interesting premiss but the execution was usually not that great.

IDK about that. I remember hearing a lot of complaints from the very first issue and the introduction of Gotham and Gotham Girl. Then those complaints became louder with the BatCat stuff in Suicide Squad arc. The marriage took it to another level of hatred. The run became unbearably bad to me with the Knightmares arc.

Slow and decompressed. Full of filler and the characters felt like caricatures.

[Aahz]

IDK about that. I remember hearing a lot of complaints from the very first issue and the introduction of Gotham and Gotham Girl. Then those complaints became louder with the BatCat stuff in Suicide Squad arc.

From what I remember a lot of people were back then always pretty hyped for the up coming story arcs.
There was iirc for example a big excitement for War of Jokes and Riddels up front.

The run became unbearably bad to me with the Knightmares arc.

Honestly I can't understand how one can get past issue #48/#49 without realising that how terrible this run is.

[millernumber1]

From what I remember a lot of people were back then always pretty hyped for the up coming story arcs.
There was iirc for example a big excitement for War of Jokes and Riddels up front.

Honestly I can't understand how one can get past issue #48/#49 without realising that how terrible this run is.

I loved #48-49, and Knightmares.

But then, I was one of the main forces behind the King Batman appreciation thread.

[exile001]

I loved #48-49, and Knightmares.

Same. I count actually #48-49 (and the little intro from FCBD) up there with my favourite Joker stories.

I loved that Batman treats him with compassion, as a man with mental health issues, right down to trying to talk him out of harming himself and even humouring him. And this Joker was actually funny, rather than just Carnage without the symbiote.

[Aahz]

Same. I count actually #48-49 (and the little intro from FCBD) up there with my favourite Joker stories.

I loved that Batman treats him with compassion, as a man with mental health issues, right down to trying to talk him out of harming himself and even humouring him. And this Joker was actually funny, rather than just Carnage without the symbiote.

That story should have ended after about 3 pages with Batman punching Joker in the face, everything else just doesn't make any sense.

[Frontier]

Same. I count actually #48-49 (and the little intro from FCBD) up there with my favourite Joker stories.

I loved that Batman treats him with compassion, as a man with mental health issues, right down to trying to talk him out of harming himself and even humouring him. And this Joker was actually funny, rather than just Carnage without the symbiote.

I can't really buy that from present-day Batman. Let alone in the context of when they were dealing with him.

[maninthemacintosh1606]

I really enjoyed this issue tbh, Jorge Molina killed it and the feeling the writing was going for worked well with me. Glad to see the end to that Tynion mess though so maybe that's influencing me - I caught up with the Fear State in a bit of a speedread run and really was not invested or impressed with that at all, I like what Williamson is capturing with his take on things so far. . . But let's see where it goes to after a few issues obv.

[exile001]

I can't really buy that from present-day Batman. Let alone in the context of when they were dealing with him.

That's fair.

King's Batman is the same as Morrison's to me from a nebulous character point, as in both had 'the universe has changed again' starting points and are 'in continuity' (whatever that means these days) but feel separate from it due to that writer's voice overriding any previous take on Batman. The specifics of what has come before doesn't matter other than as reference points and that goes for the characters, too. King went deep on psychology of Batman's world whereas Morrison went big on the very concept of Batman. Neither really fit as what I'd call a standard Batman run.

I actually really dislike current Batman (New 52 Snyder-Batman), who just barrels into everything face-first, overrides the police force, often makes things worse ('aiding' the villain unintentionally) before staging a dramatic and violent final comeback. Tynion was (hopefully) the final extension of that as his run felt like Snyder-lite.

Mariko Tamaki's run has been a breath of fresh air to me, showing a Batman who actually CARES about individual people dying and whose purpose is to save them, rather than just existing to fight Joker in a Collapsing building with the city already on fire.

[Frontier]

That's fair.

King's Batman is the same as Morrison's to me from a nebulous character point, as in both had 'the universe has changed again' starting points and are 'in continuity' (whatever that means these days) but feel separate from it due to that writer's voice overriding any previous take on Batman. The specifics of what has come before doesn't matter other than as reference points and that goes for the characters, too. King went deep on psychology of Batman's world whereas Morrison went big on the very concept of Batman. Neither really fit as what I'd call a standard Batman run.

I actually really dislike current Batman (New 52 Snyder-Batman), who just barrels into everything face-first, overrides the police force, often makes things worse ('aiding' the villain unintentionally) before staging a dramatic and violent final comeback. Tynion was (hopefully) the final extension of that as his run felt like Snyder-lite.

Mariko Tamaki's run has been a breath of fresh air to me, showing a Batman who actually CARES about individual people dying and whose purpose is to save them, rather than just existing to fight Joker in a Collapsing building with the city already on fire.

I think that's just as true for King's Batman. Just with an added dose of Catwoman.

[marvelprince]

I think that's just as true for King's Batman. Just with an added dose of Catwoman.

Not to derail the thread but do you care to explain ? Cause from what I remember most of Kings run he doesn’t actually go against the cops very much, most situations show him as always having plans (first issue with the plane and the whole first arc with Gotham and Gotham Girl is a good example of this, then I Am Suicide. Of course post wedding this changes)). And I’m trying to think of one thing he did that aided the villain overall. I guess he messed up with Damian sending him to rescue Alfred but that didn’t make it worse.

That’s what made the Bane reveal resonate with me because prior to they had established this version of Bruce as ultra capable (again, just my perspective).

[Astralabius]

Not to derail the thread but do you care to explain ? Cause from what I remember most of Kings run he doesn’t actually go against the cops very much, most situations show him as always having plans (first issue with the plane and the whole first arc with Gotham and Gotham Girl is a good example of this, then I Am Suicide. Of course post wedding this changes)). And I’m trying to think of one thing he did that aided the villain overall. I guess he messed up with Damian sending him to rescue Alfred but that didn’t make it worse.

That’s what made the Bane reveal resonate with me because prior to they had established this version of Bruce as ultra capable (again, just my perspective).

Wasn't Gordon so fed up with Bruce stepping out of line at some point that he destroyed the batsignal? Because Bruce did stuff like breaking into Arkham to beat up Bane or all the torturing he did right before the Knightmares arc?

I think letting the villain rule over your city because you are convinced you need to make him believe he broke you to enact an unnecessary and convoluted "masterplan" counts as aiding the villain.
Keep in mind that City of Bane revealed that Bruce anticipated everything Bane would do since the beginning (somehow). And he still chose to go with whatever that terrible plan was.

[Frontier]

Wasn't Gordon so fed up with Bruce stepping out of line at some point that he destroyed the batsignal? Because Bruce did stuff like breaking into Arkham to beat up Bane or all the torturing he did right before the Knightmares arc?

I think letting the villain rule over your city because you are convinced you need to make him believe he broke you to enact an unnecessary and convoluted "masterplan" counts as aiding the villain.
Keep in mind that City of Bane revealed that Bruce anticipated everything Bane would do since the beginning (somehow). And he still chose to go with whatever that terrible plan was.

Bruce Having emotional tunnel vision and acting like a bull in a China Shop didn't help either.

[Astralabius]

Bruce Having emotional tunnel vision and acting like a bull in a China Shop didn't help either.

King's Bruce was just such a massive dumbass. And it felt kinda insulting to me as a reader because King kept telling me Bruce was a "genius" or "selfless hero" when all I saw was an immature asshole who ignored all his responsibilities as a hero, mentor, friend and father to cry about his on-and-off again affair leaving him for the nth time.