Superman & Lois S2: Spoilers, Discussion, & Speculation

[Vordan]

Can we all agree that the "controversy" that came out following these scenes early in the season was stupid and a complete waste of time?

Anyone who took issue with that was an idiot. How can you read TDKR and not walk away seeing how Clark taking orders from the government was a bad call? Even Captain America, a character who you’d think would naturally obey his government without question, ends up opposing the American government as many times as he works for it/with it. If anything the big disappointment is that they still haven’t fully severed the ties between Supes and the DoD like I was hoping they would.

[JAK]

Can we all agree that the "controversy" that came out following these scenes early in the season was stupid and a complete waste of time?

I can't agree; we as fans are still fighting the BS of "he's a government stooge" that TDK left in it's wake. The comics had a weird, ham-fisted way of trying to fix that (at least the first time they did it), but something semi-classic with a larger profile (like S&L) had to come forward and be more nuanced about it. I'm actually VERY glad they did this.

Looking at Season 2 of SAL in review (Part 1)

Tyler Hoechlin (Clark Kent / Superman / Kal-El / Bizarro)

I thought Season 2 confirmed that Tyler Hoechlin is the best Clark Kent ever, while still leaving room for improvement as Superman. His Bizarro was spectacular, however.

I'm glad they showed Clark was a good but imperfect father, clearly favoring Jordan over Jonathan until he realized his Season-long mistake.

I am over his Clark not being a journalist. The volunteer assistant football coach was good for a change of pace, but Clark needs something outside of his home life as Dad and his superhero life as Superman. That's being a highly competent reporter.

Separate from his onscreen performance, the season 2 super-suit somehow got worse from Season 1. The "muscle-paint" looked off-puttingly bad, and the S-shield constantly looked dirty. It looked like Clark was wearing unwashed longjohns.

I'm hoping that they keep the stubble for the Clark scenes (looks more Dad-like) , but for his Superman scenes he's totally clean-shaven (looks more ageless). And bring in the pronounced S-curl while in costume.

So, super fast stubble-growth is a new power? lol Kidding, but I do get it. And agreed on Clark needing more life. Maybe a playful story chase with Lois (last person to get the story buys dinner or something) would bring some old-school banter back in a new way.

And the suit looking dirty is due to the paint-shading they put on it. Needs to be cleaner if they're going to go that route, and not on the S - takes too much of the red away.

I won't be surprised if season 3 is the final season given the acquisition of the CW by Nextar. Reading between the lines and knowing Nextar wants to target an older demo and not be teen angst focused. Shows like Walker, their most watched, which the network has ordered a spinoff pilot of for next season. That said a move of the show from Smallville to Metropolis is needed IMO.

I hope it's not the last, honestly. And it doesn't have to be, even with the change: I think S&L is a more mature show than the other CW shows, and could be even moreso with just a few tweaks. A bit less of the teen drama, just a bit more action and romance - and showing Lois and Clark building something to take the town in another direction could keep it at Smallville and feel fresh. But I agree that, eventually, a move to Metropolis would be best - at least a partial move (ala Rebirth).

Anyone who took issue with that was an idiot. How can you read TDKR and not walk away seeing how Clark taking orders from the government was a bad call? Even Captain America, a character who you’d think would naturally obey his government without question, ends up opposing the American government as many times as he works for it/with it. If anything the big disappointment is that they still haven’t fully severed the ties between Supes and the DoD like I was hoping they would.

I think that's coming - the main/only connection to the DoD anymore (besides general good will because he's freaking Superman, lol) seems to be Sam Lane, and I have a feeling that's where the ties will stay. I could absolutely be wrong, though, lol

[Jeffrey2]

I hope it's not the last, honestly. And it doesn't have to be, even with the change: I think S&L is a more mature show than the other CW shows, and could be even moreso with just a few tweaks. A bit less of the teen drama, just a bit more action and romance - and showing Lois and Clark building something to take the town in another direction could keep it at Smallville and feel fresh. But I agree that, eventually, a move to Metropolis would be best - at least a partial move (ala Rebirth).

It'll likely depend on how well the new, non-superhero, shows do. Like Walker Independence. If the numbers are good for the new shows, I can see Nexstar axing both S&L and Flash. The company seems not to want to be in the superhero or teen angst TV business. To that end S&L needs some course corrections in season 3 and especially a move away from too much of a teen focus and not enough and adult focus. A poster on this thread said that S&L hasn't leased the set beyond a third season. If true, they may be waiting until after fall when the new shows premier and see how well they perform - getting a better feel for the likelihood of their getting another season.

[JAK]

It'll likely depend on how well the new, non-superhero, shows do. Like Walker Independence. If the numbers are good for the new shows, I can see Nexstar axing both S&L and Flash. The company seems not to want to be in the superhero or teen angst TV business. To that end S&L needs some course corrections in season 3 and especially a move away from too much of a teen focus and not enough and adult focus. A poster on this thread said that S&L hasn't leased the set beyond a third season. If true, they may be waiting until after fall when the new shows premier and see how well they perform - getting a better feel for the likelihood of their getting another season.

All of that is pretty likely - and yep, the Kent farm was leased for three seasons. S&L could always move to HBO Max, but honestly it would also have the easiest time being older-centric (certainly easier than "The Flash," imo). And Superman's popularity has usually been either pretty young or older, anyway (leaving most of the angsty teen for the likes of Batman and Wolverine, lol) so there's that. too. The teen stuff could just as easily be filtered more through an adult lens and be fine.

The future is uncertain, of course, but I'm fairly hopeful - either to keep going at CW or HBO.

[Jeffrey2]

Read a piece where an S&L showrunner talked about actors from Smallville appearing on S&L The emphasis sort of seemed to be on Michael Rosenbaum reprising his role as Luthor. That would be a great move - IMO Rosenbaum is the best live action Luthor after Michael Shea and Sherman Howard. I only wish S&L would give guest spots to Gerard Christopher and Stacy Haiduk.

[Vordan]

All of that is pretty likely - and yep, the Kent farm was leased for three seasons. S&L could always move to HBO Max, but honestly it would also have the easiest time being older-centric (certainly easier than "The Flash," imo). And Superman's popularity has usually been either pretty young or older, anyway (leaving most of the angsty teen for the likes of Batman and Wolverine, lol) so there's that. too. The teen stuff could just as easily be filtered more through an adult lens and be fine.

The future is uncertain, of course, but I'm fairly hopeful - either to keep going at CW or HBO.

My personal guess is the show will run until the next Superman movie is ready, which probably won’t be until late 2024 or early 2025 at the earliest. I think we’ll get at least one more season after S3, which with any luck will accompany a return to Metropolis.

[Matt Rat]

[Frontier]

Read a piece where an S&L showrunner talked about actors from Smallville appearing on S&L The emphasis sort of seemed to be on Michael Rosenbaum reprising his role as Luthor. That would be a great move - IMO Rosenbaum is the best live action Luthor after Michael Shea and Sherman Howard. I only wish S&L would give guest spots to Gerard Christopher and Stacy Haiduk.

It would feel weird pairing Rosenbaum with another Superman.

[rpmaluki]

It would feel weird pairing Rosenbaum with another Superman.

It shouldn't be done afaiac because he had such a great run with Tom Welling on Smallville. If he cameos as a different character, sure but not Lex.

[JAK]

Read a piece where an S&L showrunner talked about actors from Smallville appearing on S&L The emphasis sort of seemed to be on Michael Rosenbaum reprising his role as Luthor. That would be a great move - IMO Rosenbaum is the best live action Luthor after Michael Shea and Sherman Howard. I only wish S&L would give guest spots to Gerard Christopher and Stacy Haiduk.

All of those would be cool - with Welling and Rosenbaum looking at an animated Smallville series, it might be interesting if an alt-Earth Lex (Michael) were to kidnap a now-powerless Superman (Tom) and it falls to our Superman (Tyler) to save him. Or something. But just typing that sounds too CW-ish to me, lol

My personal guess is the show will run until the next Superman movie is ready, which probably won’t be until late 2024 or early 2025 at the earliest. I think we’ll get at least one more season after S3, which with any luck will accompany a return to Metropolis.

Yeah, that makes sense - at least from a WB "can't have more than one at a time unless it's Batman" way. lol

[superduperman]

I wouldn't mind him playing Metallo or something like that.

[Vordan]

TVLine Interview with the showrunner

Looks like Clark will be a journalist again in S3, working for Chrissy.

[daBronzeBomma]

Looking at Season 2 of SAL in review (Part 2)

Elizabeth "Bitsie" Tulloch (Lois Lane / Bizarro Lois)

I thought Season 2 confirmed one of my biggest fears about SAL: removing Metropolis from the equation would negatively impact Lois far more than it ever could Clark.

Clark is Superman anywhere on Earth. Travel is a complete non-issue for him.

But Lois clearly needs Metropolis to be The World's Greatest Journalist ... which she definitely was not anything close to in this season.

Being in Smallville full-time has reduced Lois to just whomever she is related to: Clark's wife, Jordan and Jonathan's mom, Sam's daughter, Lucy's sister.

She had no role that was her own.

Season 1 was forgivable in a sense because it was the shock of the new. Lois Lane as Mother, in any medium, is still a very new and largely unexplored concept in the 80+ years history of the Superverse, so the lack of her being a reporter could be glossed over.

Not in Season 2. In Season 2 of SAL, it became glaringly obvious that Lois had been very diminished, reduced to overreacting to whatever the male family members were doing in their arcs.

It's a shame because Tulloch has the chops to be the greatest Live-Action Lois Lane of them all, but this show is currently squandering her talents.

I sincerely hope that Intergang becomes a Lois story (with John Henry Irons as the lead-in) where she is back in Metropolis and getting herself into and out of danger in the name of speaking truth to power.

Also, and this is just my personal preference, I hope they give Bitsie a new look. I adore the shorter-hair look on Lois. It's still sexy but way more practical than the Wonder Woman tresses she's sporting now. Something like Terri Hatcher had in LAC.

[Frontier]

TVLine Interview with the showrunner

Looks like Clark will be a journalist again in S3, working for Chrissy.

That's good. Also hopefully less Chrissy lecturing.

Also, and this is just my personal preference, I hope they give Bitsie a new look. I adore the shorter-hair look on Lois. It's still sexy but way more practical than the Wonder Woman tresses she's sporting now. Something like Terri Hatcher had in LAC.

I think Bitsie looks amazing already! But I prefer Lois with long hair .

[Jeffrey2]

Looking at Season 2 of SAL in review (Part 2)

Elizabeth "Bitsie" Tulloch (Lois Lane / Bizarro Lois)

I thought Season 2 confirmed one of my biggest fears about SAL: removing Metropolis from the equation would negatively impact Lois far more than it ever could Clark.

Clark is Superman anywhere on Earth. Travel is a complete non-issue for him.

But Lois clearly needs Metropolis to be The World's Greatest Journalist ... which she definitely was not anything close to in this season.

Being in Smallville full-time has reduced Lois to just whomever she is related to: Clark's wife, Jordan and Jonathan's mom, Sam's daughter, Lucy's sister.

She had no role that was her own.

Season 1 was forgivable in a sense because it was the shock of the new. Lois Lane as Mother, in any medium, is still a very new and largely unexplored concept in the 80+ years history of the Superverse, so the lack of her being a reporter could be glossed over.

Not in Season 2. In Season 2 of SAL, it became glaringly obvious that Lois had been very diminished, reduced to overreacting to whatever the male family members were doing in their arcs.

It's a shame because Tulloch has the chops to be the greatest Live-Action Lois Lane of them all, but this show is currently squandering her talents.

I sincerely hope that Intergang becomes a Lois story (with John Henry Irons as the lead-in) where she is back in Metropolis and getting herself into and out of danger in the name of speaking truth to power.

Also, and this is just my personal preference, I hope they give Bitsie a new look. I adore the shorter-hair look on Lois. It's still sexy but way more practical than the Wonder Woman tresses she's sporting now. Something like Terri Hatcher had in LAC.

I generally agree. The Smallville locale has run its course as has the teen angst stuff. Ratings dropped significantly in the second season. That is usually not a good sign. Arrow which started it all saw its ratings rise in the second season and hold at season 1 levels in the 3rd. The crazy scheduling impacted Arrow also, but it held onto its audience unlike S&L.

Bitsie is right up there with Kidder as my fav live action Lois, but she is being wasted in Smallville. The showrunners may see the warning signs as they seem to be shaking things up for season 3 - putting Clark to work and using Intergang in season 3. More Earthbound challenges maybe? Hope so.

Lois and Clark got better in its second season and a lot of that was the way Lois/Teri was written. Superboy got better season after season and a lot of that was the use of Lana/Stacy Haiduk - her role was proactive throughout the series and not reactive as Bitsie's has become.

The suit? Don't get me started. It has been done much better on all other modern live-action Superman films and TV. Why the showrunners didn't take their inspiration for the suit from one of the other successful modern-day versions is beyond me.

If S&L gets a 4th season (up in the air given Nexstar's vision for the CW) S&L pretty much has to relocate to Metropolis for fresh storyline premises.

The hair? I like tresses. It worked with Stacy Haiduk/Lana Lang:

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