Superman Complaint Thread

[Vordan]

Well actually on second thought I may have to retract what I said before. It’s not just Twitter it’s everywhere across all social media. There’s a huge contingent of people who hate Superman, who think he’s lame, and that’s something you lay squarely at the feet of WB for how badly they’ve mismanaged him. For the past two decades his major appearances have been:
1. Superman Returns where he’s a boring Jesus figure and the whole movie is just Donner nostalgia wankfest
2. Man of Steel again had him as a boring Jesus figure. At least there was some action but Superman himself was still terrible
3. Batman vs. Superman which was just unmitigated crap and where he had fewer lines than Spider-Man in Civil War
4. Justice League where he was a total meme
5. ZSJL where he was again a hollow Jesus entity
6. Injustice games where he was a mass murdering villain
7. Smallville where he wasn’t Superman
8. Superman & Lois which was the only adaption I can call “good” but unfortunately many people have abandoned the CW entirely because of how badly the Arrowverse as a whole declined. I’ve seen many people refuse to even give the show a chance simply because it’s CW, and of course the Snyder stans hate it simply for existing
9. A handful of DTV animated movies which have varied widely in quality
10. The DCAU where he was an easily provoked moron who was constantly getting one upped by Batman

Christ it’s been an absolutely hellish century for him so far. This is what you get when you pretty much abandon any effort to keep him in the public eye as WB did after the 90s. S&L is a nice start but it can’t solve his godawful pop culture image alone. Hopefully between S&L, MAWS, League of Super-Pets, and maybe Legion of Superheroes we will start to see Superman’s pop culture image recover.

[manwhohaseverything]

I gave superman and lois a chance..it's just ain't for me.I found it boring.There was nothing there for me.Every character seem to be just there.Nothing interesting.
Having said that,league of super-pets is the thing i am looking forward too the most.MAWS-i am on the fence about it.Hopefully,legion of superheroes has bendis as idea guy.

And i would prefer a straight up modern adaptation of goldenage superman.Hell yeah!My complaint.Give me a superman that leaps tall buildings,protecting the weak and is always running around looking for adventure.Give me a romance dawn for supes.Not some savior bullshit about saving things.Heck! i would even prefer american alien.

[The World]

Superman's fanbase is playing as much of a part in his failure as WB/DC is. I don't know how many times I've had to hear that too much tragedy spiel but Spiderman No Way Home pretty much showed us that people are inspired by people overcoming their hardships not by people that don't experience them. Then we've had the ludicrous defense of things like severing his connecting to the legion and dumping stuff like Krypto both of which have persevered despite many of the things the modern writers have created to replace them.

[Prime]

Well actually on second thought I may have to retract what I said before. It’s not just Twitter it’s everywhere across all social media. There’s a huge contingent of people who hate Superman, who think he’s lame, and that’s something you lay squarely at the feet of WB for how badly they’ve mismanaged him. For the past two decades his major appearances have been:
1. Superman Returns where he’s a boring Jesus figure and the whole movie is just Donner nostalgia wankfest
2. Man of Steel again had him as a boring Jesus figure. At least there was some action but Superman himself was still terrible
3. Batman vs. Superman which was just unmitigated crap and where he had fewer lines than Spider-Man in Civil War
4. Justice League where he was a total meme
5. ZSJL where he was again a hollow Jesus entity
6. Injustice games where he was a mass murdering villain
7. Smallville where he wasn’t Superman
8. Superman & Lois which was the only adaption I can call “good” but unfortunately many people have abandoned the CW entirely because of how badly the Arrowverse as a whole declined. I’ve seen many people refuse to even give the show a chance simply because it’s CW, and of course the Snyder stans hate it simply for existing
9. A handful of DTV animated movies which have varied widely in quality
10. The DCAU where he was an easily provoked moron who was constantly getting one upped by Batman

Christ it’s been an absolutely hellish century for him so far. This is what you get when you pretty much abandon any effort to keep him in the public eye as WB did after the 90s. S&L is a nice start but it can’t solve his godawful pop culture image alone. Hopefully between S&L, MAWS, League of Super-Pets, and maybe Legion of Superheroes we will start to see Superman’s pop culture image recover.

I solely blame WB for this. This is their fault. But I don't know if we also share the blame for not letting Superman evolve. I personally think if they reboot him and just adapt the first story arc from Morrison's action Comics it might do some good.

[Gaius]

I gave superman and lois a chance..it's just ain't for me.I found it boring.There was nothing there for me.Every character seem to be just there.Nothing interesting.
Having said that,league of super-pets is the thing i am looking forward too the most.MAWS-i am on the fence about it.Hopefully,legion of superheroes has bendis as idea guy.

And i would prefer a straight up modern adaptation of goldenage superman.Hell yeah!My complaint.Give me a superman that leaps tall buildings,protecting the weak and is always running around looking for adventure.Give me a romance dawn for supes.Not some savior bullshit about saving things.Heck! i would even prefer american alien.

Hmm, well I guess if Landis' dad can still have a career after Twilight Zone I guess his son will find a way also.

[manwhohaseverything]

Hmm, well I guess if Landis' dad can still have a career after Twilight Zone I guess his son will find a way also.

American alien isn't my choice for a superman.But,it's ten times better than "thou shall hope"

[Adekis]

Superman has had haters for a long fucking time. Don't make it a bigger deal than it is. Full stop.

[Primal Slayer]

7. Smallville where he wasn’t Superman
8. Superman & Lois which was the only adaption I can call “good” but unfortunately many people have abandoned the CW entirely because of how badly the Arrowverse as a whole declined. I’ve seen many people refuse to even give the show a chance simply because it’s CW, and of course the Snyder stans hate it simply for existing
10. The DCAU where he was an easily provoked moron who was constantly getting one upped by Batman

Christ it’s been an absolutely hellish century for him so far. This is what you get when you pretty much abandon any effort to keep him in the public eye as WB did after the 90s. S&L is a nice start but it can’t solve his godawful pop culture image alone. Hopefully between S&L, MAWS, League of Super-Pets, and maybe Legion of Superheroes we will start to see Superman’s pop culture image recover.

These did more for the character than anything with keeping him in the publics eye and all being highly successful. Smallvile didnt last 10 seasons because he was a failure, people anticipated him being Superman every year.

Superman and Lois was the 2nd highest CW show its first season which is great and doubled its audience in DVR ratings.

These projects havent faded from the publics mind like the rest of the list have/will.

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman has had haters for a long fucking time. Don't make it a bigger deal than it is. Full stop.

Question has always been why..Why? doesn't batman or spiderman generate the reaction.It's like this, people hate traditional superman.People hate perceived changes to traditional superman.It's a nightmare for anyone who is handling the character.Let me tell you,i don't think even donner himself can make a movie that can satisfy some of the "classic" guys and vice versa.

I also think,their(spidey and bats) stories kinda tackle the polarisation.They kinda have it baked into them.Superman doesn't have that.In stories,he is this figure all the people in the world love and want to follow.Clark can't smash a car in today's world(wink!wink!).sure,they will homage it in superman and lois or superman returns.But,they basically have it as clark lifting the car.But,batman and spidey can.Why?cause superman represents people's moral fantasies.Superman represents the idealised version of western judeo christian church ethics.He is a symbol that represents that.Spidey and bats?they are just power fantasies. And any problem they bring to the society like say vigilantism, collateral damage..etc is atleast addressed in the stories they have and the framework.

"Spiderman is a menace".."Bat-man brutalizes criminals"

I tend to believe, people that don't like or sees problems in superman have always been people that see the problem in western judeo christian church framework.That won't be a problem,if the stories atleast addressed the problems and other sides.but, they don't.All they see is,the savior being praised and advocation for blind faith.The lack of sophistication in the framework itself is what people hate about superman franchise.Example in an otherwise decent to great superbook,


Superman as character doesn't say "you do you.your morality is your choice.I am gonna do what i think is right as well.".

Superman says" i am right and follow me".

And that gets a reaction "why th eff should i?".Even if what superman says is right.(Man as in god's children are rebellious)

You know who superman's big opponent is?it ain't batman.it's Nietzsche.And superman(story)'s suppressive morality won't win that battle.

"Buddha says: 'Do not flatter your benefactor!'. Let one repeat this saying in a Christian church : it immediately purifies the air of everything Christian."


And so far morrison is the only one who seems to understand that..("Cough! Cough! holy father in the sky)
"Admit it dad.you hate your kids.You think we have no future"


Maybe i am pretentious or stupid.I tend to try to see past the layers.I do make stupid observation.But,this is my two cents on the subject.

Edit-I also think many don't care for this discourse itself in story.or maybe it's that the discourse in superman stories are done in a boring way.Either way, They find it boring.So that's all that matters.So would tap out at the sight of savior stories.

[Vordan]

These did more for the character than anything with keeping him in the publics eye and all being highly successful. Smallvile didnt last 10 seasons because he was a failure, people anticipated him being Superman every year.

Superman and Lois was the 2nd highest CW show its first season which is great and doubled its audience in DVR ratings.

These projects havent faded from the publics mind like the rest of the list have/will.

Hard to gauge what the long term impact is yet. I certainly have hopes that S&L will affect popular perception of the character.

[Ascended]

These did more for the character than anything with keeping him in the publics eye and all being highly successful. Smallvile didnt last 10 seasons because he was a failure, people anticipated him being Superman every year.

Superman and Lois was the 2nd highest CW show its first season which is great and doubled its audience in DVR ratings.

These projects havent faded from the publics mind like the rest of the list have/will.

It's rather remarkable, really.

Superman has always had his haters, and Adekis is right that it shouldn't be blown out of proportion.

But who out there in popular fiction can claim as many losses in such a short time as Superman, and still enjoy such high turnout on the next project? Bats and Spidey, and....? It's a damn short list. People hated Superman Returns, but a few years later Man of Steel still made something like 600-700 million, despite being polarizing in its own right. And at the time this was considered pretty successful. Hell, it still is, unless the only metric you use is Marvel's biggest hits. You'd think after the disaster of Justice League and BvS that no tv show would pull ratings worth mentioning, but here we are with Clark apparently being one of the CW's biggest hits. And being a big deal on the CW isn't anything to brag about, but the fact that Clark does so well anywhere after such recent, public failings says a lot about his staying power.

People love Superman. It is our natural state. We have to be taught to hate him. And while some folks do, and DC itself has given everyone plenty of reason to, whenever there's a new Superman project people show up. Always.

[manwhohaseverything]

People love Superman. It is our natural state.

That's not true..People do have bad experiences.The historical baggages are inherited as well,not just white man's burden or guilt or whatever the hell they are calling it now.

[Sacred Knight]

I find it pretty infuriating that Johnson happened upon his run at a time when Clark Kent is relegated to secondary Superman, and during the general Jon Kent and overall Infinite Frontier disasters. He has creative ideas and is utilizing a fantastical scope at that which is perfect for Superman but not often capitalized anymore. Any other era this would have been the top Superman title. Its being weighed down by the atrocious ideas of the past few years and the implemented status quo happening around it.

[The Frog Bros]

It's rather remarkable, really.

Superman has always had his haters, and Adekis is right that it shouldn't be blown out of proportion.

But who out there in popular fiction can claim as many losses in such a short time as Superman, and still enjoy such high turnout on the next project? Bats and Spidey, and....? It's a damn short list. People hated Superman Returns, but a few years later Man of Steel still made something like 600-700 million, despite being polarizing in its own right. And at the time this was considered pretty successful. Hell, it still is, unless the only metric you use is Marvel's biggest hits. You'd think after the disaster of Justice League and BvS that no tv show would pull ratings worth mentioning, but here we are with Clark apparently being one of the CW's biggest hits. And being a big deal on the CW isn't anything to brag about, but the fact that Clark does so well anywhere after such recent, public failings says a lot about his staying power.

People love Superman. It is our natural state. We have to be taught to hate him. And while some folks do, and DC itself has given everyone plenty of reason to, whenever there's a new Superman project people show up. Always.

Nelson Mandela-esque.

[NaVi]

Superman's problem is that he is the goal to achieve, the dream to fulfill. A clear example of this is the Smallville series, where we see how being Superman for Clark is like being Hokage for Naruto.
It is very difficult to write a character who has basically reached his potential, the best he can be, and that is what Superman represents.