Jason is the most loyal Robin

[Claude]

Isn't Steph the most loyal Robin, though? Didn't quit, but surpassed Jason by not being so disloyal as to make Bruce very sad by dying in the role.

[Frontier]

Isn't Steph the most loyal Robin, though? Didn't quit, but surpassed Jason by not being so disloyal as to make Bruce very sad by dying in the role.

Well, at least by not actually dying even though they pretended she was (poor Tim) .

[Zaresh]

Well, at least by not actually dying even though they pretended she was (poor Tim) .

Well, she technically died, for as long as the death wasn't retconned. I guess that counts too? XD

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

In a way, it could be said that Jason was the more loyal but not to Bruce himself but rather, to the ideal Bruce that Jason build in his head and came to idolize. The core of his conflict when he returned was the fact he felt betrayed because Bruce didn't avenge him. The whole thing about being the "Batman he couldn't be" is just an extension to that and depending on the writer and/or your perspective is just a way for Jason to justify himself going against the man he viewed as his dad.

[MajorHoy]

A lot of you are using a lot of conjecture and assuming Jason would have quit being Robin if he lived because that's what everyone else did... that's opinion and not fact
He never quit being Robin he died
He was initially mad when he came back because he still felt like he was Robin who Bruce moved on from

He made the opposite the decision the others did because he had no issues with just being Bruce's partner that the others all eventually got tired of
Maybe DC didn't get to that point with his character but ultimately that has now set him apart from the others in a different way

Now who's "using a lot of conjecture and assuming" things about what Jason WOULD have done?

[bat39]

A lot of you are using a lot of conjecture and assuming Jason would have quit being Robin if he lived because that's what everyone else did... that's opinion and not fact
He never quit being Robin he died
He was initially mad when he came back because he still felt like he was Robin who Bruce moved on from

He made the opposite the decision the others did because he had no issues with just being Bruce's partner that the others all eventually got tired of
Maybe DC didn't get to that point with his character but ultimately that has now set him apart from the others in a different way

The fact is, we'll never know. Jason was killed after around two years, give or take, of being Robin. We can't really predict if he'd have struck out on his own like Dick eventually did, or continued to stay with Bruce into adulthood. Frankly, I don't think him staying as Robin, or leaving, reflects on his 'loyalty' (or lack thereof) in any way. I don't think Dick was 'disloyal' towards Bruce in any interpretation of the break from him. If anything, the Post-COIE versions had Bruce pushing Dick away!

There are more interpretations that those two, and two animated takes on a character that are not even in the same medion he was created in, and one is not even in the same kind of universe and either erased him entirely from the start or just gave him another name (because DCAU Time was basically Jason with other name). Some of you keep repeating certain things about Jason's time as Robin thay are not what happened in the comics and are very much very late retcons to support a not very nice nardative thay blamed
Jason for his death in a roundabout or even straight way.

You guys want alternate takes on the character? The last version of the Under the Red Hood movie has tree different routes. In one of them, Jason follows Bruce rules to a T. Another one, in the comics, has Jason becoming a very rightfull Batman in an alternate Earth designed by Morrison, of all the writers that could have done it. And Arkham Knight Jason backstory doesn't picture hime that bad, either, until hewas captured and tortures: Jason and Bruce had a loving father-son relationship.

Let's give it another spin, and let's go for the other Robins breaking that 'loyalty'. Damian has acted several times without Bruce giving him permision or allowing him to do something, and he has even hidden what he was doing by him. Tim has done the same too, even when the things he has done were less severe and serious. Both have alternate """evil""" futures in which they go agains what Bruce does. Dick was very rebellious back then, depending on which continuity you take, and has almost killed or ""killed""" rogues at very special, estressed times. And not a robin, bur Barbara does as she wants most of the time, no matter what Bruce says or does. She's not stuck with Bruce at all

But 'of course', Jason is the most conflicted person in the clan, who has more differences with Bruce, and has attacked the other characters more times (this is cape comics, that stuff happens all the time. Look at Joker's war. Usually it happens because the characters "aren't themselves". I would put trauma into that category to some degree too. It's not a forgiven or lessening point, but it puts the thing into some context). So 'of course', he needs to be the less loyal. Well, I read Jason usually in every thing he's in, and I disagree. Jason isn't unloyal to Bruce: he is conflicted with him, has a lot of differences with him. But the guy LOVES Bruce, he really loves him. If Bruce really needs him, I think Jason, as I've understood him in most works, would be there for Bruce as much as he could. Which is why he feels abandoned or neglected by Bruce. Because Bruce wouldn't go to the same places Jason would for him. Or at least it was like that for a while. Things have changed since more or less 2014-2015. Which is when Jason started to slowly work with Bruce again. And they still hold differences and disagree. But Jason is dsfinitely loyal to Bruce. He wouldn' betray him for, let's see, Superman going evil.

I'm not even debating the issue of whether Jason is loyal to Bruce or not, because I don't think we can 100% predict if Jason would have remained as Robin at age 19 based on how we was like at age 14. Nor do I believe that the question of whether or not he stayed as Robin even definitively indicates something about 'loyalty'.

I was just pointing out a couple of alternate continuities which presented Jason as having fundamental differences with Bruce even before his death. Which I agree is revisionism, since the original comics of the late 80's didn't show Jason as being that rebellious or violent, except perhaps for the story where he let's the rapist diplomat's son fall (or not). My point was that whichever interpretation you go with, there's nothing to indicate that Jason is necessarily more 'loyal' to Bruce and would have stayed on as Robin longer than any of the others did.

[Nite-Wing]

Another thing is that a lot of you seem to be stuck on the concept of Loyalty
It not even supposed to be a feather in your cap
Although because we are talking about heroes and are fans of individual characters it will be
Its about the support end of story

If we use a sports analogy the superstar who stays with one franchise his whole career is loyal
Jason's career as Robin was shorter but he never left the partnership

[Zaresh]

Gosh, looking again at my post, I should stop posting here when I'm in my tablet and can't spellcheck properly.

[Fergus]

We can talks about Jason's OOC moment in a run most fans of the character hate, or we can talk about that time Jason went to Bruce in The Cult, endangering himself as a kid, alone, to rescue him. Or that time Jason went with Bruce to space to fight in a tourment that could kill him. Or that time he went with Bruce to the place he died, in a mission he has no info about, to be betrayed by Bruce. Or that time, afterwards, that he went alongside Barbara and Tim to Apokolips to help Bruce into bring back Damian . Or... And I'm not mentioning stuff in Jason's own comics.

I wasn't thinking about Injustice, to be honest. It was an example. Actually, I was thinking about how Jason and Dick both have a story with Clark and see him with utter respect. So what would happen if Clark turned evil? I still don't think Jason would side with him. I also thought about the idea of using Green Arrow for the example, but no one thinks Oliver is going to turn evil, or would be very dangerous if he did; and Jason definitely wouldn't join his side, at all. He has zero history with him, and he's loyal to Roy at this point. It didn't cross my mind that Damian did betray Bruce in that comic. I disliked the idea then and still dislike it now. I didn't like Bruce in that comic either, but well, I didn't like a lot of things about Injustice. I liked Blue Beettle's parts, and Green Arrow's whole story, and I think that's all. It was fun at times.

Robins are loyal. They have to. If there's not trust in their partnership, it wouldn't work.

I don't feel we don't need to talk about any of that since that is part of the job. They all have examples like that. That's what Robins/Bat allies do when working with Batman not necessary to make a list.


Simply pointing out that you are incorrect when you say that Jason has never betrayed Bruce. He has.

Jason did do much in Injustice which is strange considering his arguments and ideology since his return.

Shame because there could have done something more interesting and nuanced.

Like they did with Damian whose arc in the saga turned out to be one of the best.

Back to the point. I believe all the Robins are Loyal.

I don't agree that Jason is the most loyal because he was killed.

Steph was killed and she's still working with Bruce.

Tim was fired, presumed dead, unavenged, no one attempted to bring him back and he's still in the role.

Damian was killed [many times] and he's still in the role. Currently working through his severe PTSD but still in the role.

[Godlike13]

If we use a sports analogy the superstar who stays with one franchise his whole career is loyal
Jason's career as Robin was shorter but he never left the partnership

Even with sports that depends on the length. If the players career is only 2 seasons long, no one claims that player was loyal. Just that he had a short career.

[Zaresh]

I don't feel we don't need to talk about any of that since that is part of the job. They all have examples like that. That's what Robins/Bat allies do when working with Batman not necessary to make a list.


Simply pointing out that you are incorrect when you say that Jason has never betrayed Bruce. He has.

Jason did do much in Injustice which is strange considering his arguments and ideology since his return.

Shame because there could have done something more interesting and nuanced.

Like they did with Damian whose arc in the saga turned out to be one of the best.

Back to the point. I believe all the Robins are Loyal.

I don't agree that Jason is the most loyal because he was killed.

Steph was killed and she's still working with Bruce.

Tim was fired, presumed dead, unavenged, no one attempted to bring him back and he's still in the role.

Damian was killed [many times] and he's still in the role. Currently working through his severe PTSD but still in the role.

When did I said that? I didn't do. I said he wasn't unloyal.

But I'll explain my point of view on that. I disagree in a lot of points, included the definition of betrayal. I don't think he betrayed Bruce by the act of attacking them. He betrayed them, characters he barely had any contact with prior. But Bruce? Ironically, Jason, in his head, was sure he was helping Bruce in his work, making him realize of his faults, his faults by Jason's own image and ideals of how Bruce is and what he should be. I don't think that falls much in the betrayal category, not certainly in the intended betrayal.

And if we take into account all the times that he broke their mutual trust, we should also point all the other times he didn't. No matter if they were in the costume or not. He's loyal to Bruce. Has he broke that trust? He has, but I would argue that even so, he was still loyal to Bruce. Well, most of the time anyways.

You know when Jason betrayed Bruce, when he did actively and willy? During late Rebirth time, when he briefly aided Luthor. That not only broke their trust, and was a danger to Bruce. That literally put him against Bruce, actively, and not because he thought he was helping Bruce to be a better Batman.

[Drako]

If we use a sports analogy the superstar who stays with one franchise his whole career is loyal
Jason's career as Robin was shorter but he never left the partnership

So Jason died during his Rookie contract and could never hit Free agency.
I guess Len Bias is the most loyal Celtics of all time.

[exile001]

Jason killed. That is betraying Bruce and everything he stands for. Betrayal, by definition, is disloyalty.

Even if you go before the Red Hood you could argue that as Robin he killed Felipe Garzonas, the diplomat's son (although that is left a little ambiguous).

I'd actually argue that Jason is the ONLY Robin to be disloyal.

[Nite-Wing]

So Jason died during his Rookie contract and could never hit Free agency.
I guess Len Bias is the most loyal Celtics of all time.

Who was Robin the longest? Dick or maybe Tim now
They still quit and left Bruce for reasons

You can't mitigate that away with time served imo

[Claude]

Who was Robin the longest? Dick or maybe Tim now

They stayed for a long time? Wow, those guys sound pretty loyal!