Should YJ Artemis have been an original character?

[Aahz]

Kaldur being the most experienced member on the team wasn't what made him interesting. What made him interesting (besides design and powers) was that he acted kind of like a preacher. He had a strong soft energy, with an extremely faithful and cautious mindset, of a leader.

The thing is he can't be a leader if he is one of the least experienced heroes around, and if he has no one to lead.

I think one of the biggest flaws young justice has, is the many liberties it took when it comes to character ages, histories and team line-ups which makes it all pretty hard for the viewers to get into the comics.

[Alpha]

I didn't say he had to be a leader, but he still can be. He just has to have experience on some kind of atlatean unit before he became Aqualad. Although I don't see a way for them to adapt the tv version of Kaldur unless we have some kind of continuity disruptor that allows us to rewrite his history. A character can't just change personality all of a sudden.

His qualities of zeal and ardor work even if he isn't leading a team

[mathew101281]

It wouldn’t be the first time that a character had a way better version be created in another medium, and then that version became the defacto version. Mr. Freeze (BTAS) for example. Why should comics stick with a way less interesting character when a way more interesting way of doing the character has revealed itself?

[Dred]

It's not like Artemis is a comic staple regardless.

The reason they wouldn't go with YJ Artemis is because her story arc is tied to other characters who, in the comics, have no relation to her. Half her story is hooking up with Wally and getting over his death, which is obviously not something that will fly in the comics since Wally's a much more significant character than Artemis in the comics and has a very strong romantic relationship with Linda. So it's a moot idea. Unless you just want ANOTHER Archer girl DC is going to ignore. Not like there's any room for her.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

It's not like Artemis is a comic staple regardless.

The reason they wouldn't go with YJ Artemis is because her story arc is tied to other characters who, in the comics, have no relation to her. Half her story is hooking up with Wally and getting over his death, which is obviously not something that will fly in the comics since Wally's a much more significant character than Artemis in the comics and has a very strong romantic relationship with Linda. So it's a moot idea. Unless you just want ANOTHER Archer girl DC is going to ignore. Not like there's any room for her.

You could still do the Cheshire's sister angle. Cheshire is more likely to lie about her history so you could use her as an unreliable narrator. Plus continuity is a clusterfuck so I don't mind changing it.

I'm fine with scrapping the Wally angle and the archery gimmick. Just lean into the Tigress outfit and codename.

[Shockingjustice]

Kaldur being the most experienced member on the team wasn't what made him interesting. What made him interesting (besides design and powers) was that he acted kind of like a preacher. He had a strong soft energy, with an extremely faithful and cautious mindset, of a leader. He was that calming voice full of goodness and with a sort of spiritual vibe. Kind of like their Galahad.

Meanwhile we've had two versions of Jackson. From what I've seen he is either this awkward sweet kid (rebirth) or a powerull lion (Future State and pre new 52).

I think the Young Justice version was the kind of character we rarely see in superhero stories. What defined him was his zeal and ardor.

That's a pretty interesting insight on the character. You're one of the few people I've seen to say Kaldur is not boring.

[Zero Hunter]

Kaldur being the most experienced member on the team wasn't what made him interesting. What made him interesting (besides design and powers) was that he acted kind of like a preacher. He had a strong soft energy, with an extremely faithful and cautious mindset, of a leader. He was that calming voice full of goodness and with a sort of spiritual vibe. Kind of like their Galahad.

Meanwhile we've had two versions of Jackson. From what I've seen he is either this awkward sweet kid (rebirth) or a powerull lion (Future State and pre new 52).

I think the Young Justice version was the kind of character we rarely see in superhero stories. What defined him was his zeal and ardor.

I think a big part of that was the voice acting on the show. So much of Kaldur's demenor came from his voice which is hard to translate to the written page.

[Aahz]

Big question would also be in what book to put her.

It is not like DC has that many successful team books, and that she could carry a solo is also not that likely.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Big question would also be in what book to put her.

It is not like DC has that many successful team books, and that she could carry a solo is also not that likely.

You could give her a miniseries with Cheshire. Lean into the sister on opposite sides of the law drama. If it doesn't work, DC could say that they tried and it's the fan's fault.

[Alpha]

That's a pretty interesting insight on the character. You're one of the few people I've seen to say Kaldur is not boring.

He could've easily been boring, but they managed to walk the line perfectly.

He was the guy that took on all actively chose all these responsabilities even though nobody chose him, and was constantly reducing his own inner desires for a greater cause.
He always threw himself in front of ethical bullets, allowing others to blame him for the actions if the unit, because he felt that it was best for the team.

I don't know how someone could think he was boring in season 2 though. He was walking all kinds of moral lines, it was great.

I think a big part of that was the voice acting on the show. So much of Kaldur's demenor came from his voice which is hard to translate to the written page.

That is absolutely true, but I still think it's possible.

One thing I would do is emphasize how he trained to be a mage and spiritual leader, but abandoned that future out of responsability to join an heroic unit, and yet he still maintains the mindset of his former career.

The second thing I would do is give him artists with a noir sensibility which do wonders for his moral dillemas.

[Bruce Wayne]

Given how different she is from her comic counterpart, she may as well have been an original character.

You have to understand that she is not based on what Johns later did in JSA, but rather the character when she was first created in the 80s that appeared in Infinity Inc and Who's Who, one of the showrunners for YJ was an assistant editor on the Infinity Inc book as well as a contributor to Who's Who. A good portion of YJ is filtered through the lens of ideas that had been running around the DC office during the 80s such as the metagene or the conflict between the Lords of Order/Chaos, ideas which later all but disappeared during the Didio era.

[John Venus]

They can't have the YJ version of her be introduced alongside the current one in the comics cause they have the same backstory.

I'm not saying they should do it, i'm saying i'm down for the change cause she's barely a character in the comics and i like the cartoon version much more.

Maybe the comics should do their own thing with a YJ inspired Artemis just like the show did their own thing by tying her to Cheshire and Wally.

Paula Crock wasn't even the first Tigress. The first Tigress was an unnamed woman who fought John Zatara in the Golden Age. Maybe, have YJ--inspired Artemis be related to that Tigress.

I'm not the biggest fan of either Artemis but IMO there are unique elements to comic book elements that are worth preserving.

You could still do the Cheshire's sister angle. Cheshire is more likely to lie about her history so you could use her as an unreliable narrator. Plus continuity is a clusterfuck so I don't mind changing it.

I'm fine with scrapping the Wally angle and the archery gimmick. Just lean into the Tigress outfit and codename.

Cheshire's backstory only needs to be modernized to remove the Dragon Lady/outdated Orientalist elements, it doesn't need to be thrown out entirely. The answer to a cluster fuck continuity isn't more inconsistency but less. If say, a writer rewrites Cheshire to be more like her YJ incarnation, what's stopping the next writer from throwing it all out to make her more like her classic version?

Plus we would lose Weng Chan and I rather DC did not erase more Asian male characters even minor ones.

Cheshire/Jade Nguyen is the daughter of a US Senator and a Vietnamese woman, her father abused her mother and sold Cheshire into slavery. She was adopted and rescued by a Chinese mercenary who taught her how to fight and she learned about poisons through an African assassin. That's a descent enough premise for an anti-hero/anti-villain character.

It's not like Artemis is a comic staple regardless.

The reason they wouldn't go with YJ Artemis is because her story arc is tied to other characters who, in the comics, have no relation to her. Half her story is hooking up with Wally and getting over his death, which is obviously not something that will fly in the comics since Wally's a much more significant character than Artemis in the comics and has a very strong romantic relationship with Linda. So it's a moot idea. Unless you just want ANOTHER Archer girl DC is going to ignore. Not like there's any room for her.

A character doesn't have to be a comic book staple. Their individual uniqueness should be recognized.

[John Venus]

You have to understand that she is not based on what Johns later did in JSA, but rather the character when she was first created in the 80s that appeared in Infinity Inc and Who's Who, one of the showrunners for YJ was an assistant editor on the Infinity Inc book as well as a contributor to Who's Who. A good portion of YJ is filtered through the lens of ideas that had been running around the DC office during the 80s such as the metagene or the conflict between the Lords of Order/Chaos, ideas which later all but disappeared during the Didio era.

I haven't read her early appearances yet. I'm mostly going off of Jen Van Meter's work with the Icicle & Tigress in JSA: Classified and in the Hourman/Liberty Belle back up in the JSA.

[Jackalope89]

Her being in a main setting where the original Artemis is, simply doesn't work. Something like Earth 2 of the New52 or the Huntress/Powergirl series could work. She could be part of a different group of Teen Titans/JSA Kids or whatever. That would perhaps be the easiest way to bring the Artemis Crock of YJ into the comics. And then have a crossover with the main universe at some point.

I would have said something about her already being an OC in all but name (literally), but a few others beat me to it.

[Dred]

You could still do the Cheshire's sister angle. Cheshire is more likely to lie about her history so you could use her as an unreliable narrator. Plus continuity is a clusterfuck so I don't mind changing it.

I'm fine with scrapping the Wally angle and the archery gimmick. Just lean into the Tigress outfit and codename.

But is that the Artemis people are clamoring for? Her entire appeal is basically a Stephanie Brown angle of being born into a criminal family and escaping, and growing up through that temptation and adversity. If we just skip ahead to Artemis and Cheshire teaming up then it's not really the Artemis people are asking for, just a super minor villain teaming up with another minor villain. Like, Cheshire is a supporting/side character to Roy at this point and Roy is barely in team books. When are you finding space to expand on Artemis in this situation and what's gained out of it?

Artemis is popular because of YJ. I don't see why you put her in the comics because of YJ if you're not at least fairly close in the reverse adaptation.