Should YJ Artemis have been an original character?

[John Venus]

Cheshire wasn't any less her own character in YJ.

Basically an entirely different character who was shoehorned into another character's family tree. It wasn't bad. Just weird.

Just doesn't seem like Artemis to me, but to each their own.

How so? I haven't even gotten into their personalities or anything like that yet.

[Agent Z]

Basically an entirely different character who was shoehorned into another character's family tree. It wasn't bad. Just weird.



How so? I haven't even gotten into their personalities or anything like that yet.

Was she really that different? I've seen far more extreme divergences in adaptations and the comic version isn't consistent anyway.

[Dred]

Basically an entirely different character who was shoehorned into another character's family tree. It wasn't bad. Just weird.



How so? I haven't even gotten into their personalities or anything like that yet.

Seems to miss on basically every part of the YJ Artemis character arc to just backwards retcon half of it in. I mean anyone can be a sassy woman villain-turned-hero. There's a million of em.

You don't really have to justify yourself to me on this, by the by. I just don't see how it'd be anything like Artemis because Artemis is interesting based on her relationships and arc, to me. All of which would be notably absent. Her personality isn't particularly unique.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm fine with JV's idea of putting Comic Artemis on BoP. They just take the role of YJ Green Arrow -the mentor who tries to put Artemis on the right path.

I'm fine with adaptations taking liberties.

[Aahz]

Combined with the four Robins and ever increasing Green Lanterns, this is pretty tame.

Green Arrow has on top also Roy and Connor.

And the big difference between the Robins and the Green Arrow Sidekicks is, that the Robins can by them self support books that sell at least comparable to the Green Arrow main book, while Batman himself can have keep easily multiple series going.

[John Venus]

Was she really that different? I've seen far more extreme divergences in adaptations and the comic version isn't consistent anyway.

She was flirty like comic book Jade and she hooked up with Roy and made Lian. That's about it.

The answer to inconsistency isn't more inconsistency.

Cheshire does need to be cleaned up as a character in order to remove all the dragon lady elements associated with the character. But I don't think making the daughter of the Sportsmaster and Paula Crock is the answer.

Seems to miss on basically every part of the YJ Artemis character arc to just backwards retcon half of it in. I mean anyone can be a sassy woman villain-turned-hero. There's a million of em.

You don't really have to justify yourself to me on this, by the by. I just don't see how it'd be anything like Artemis because Artemis is interesting based on her relationships and arc, to me. All of which would be notably absent. Her personality isn't particularly unique.

Not really, I think it's a much cleaner way of introducing the character than just revamping comic book Artemis to be more like. It's just giving her a younger sister on the side of good. Of course she won't have the same relationship with Wally, GA and other heroes but you could still keep her personality the same and have her build a connection with the BOP members.

She isn't unique but she does have a fanbase. Plenty of characters have made the leap from animation to comics. If there is interest around the character then no point in leaving her out of the comics .

[Agent Z]

Green Arrow has on top also Roy and Connor.

So two male sidekicks and four female ones. Again, not that big.

And the big difference between the Robins and the Green Arrow Sidekicks is, that the Robins can by them self support books that sell at least comparable to the Green Arrow main book, while Batman himself can have keep easily multiple series going.

By this logic, we should get rid of just about any character that doesn't sell as well as Batman or the Robin books.

[Aahz]

So two male sidekicks and four female ones. Again, not that big.

For a franchise of the size of Green Arrow that is a lot, since you have basically to put all these characters in team books to keep them around, since there is simply not enough space in the Green Arrow to give the sidekicks constant focus (especially since he now usually shares the book with Black Canary). And it is not like DC has that many successful team books.

By this logic, we should get rid of just about any character that doesn't sell as well as Batman or the Robin books.

My point is simply that you can't compare the Batfamily with the other DC families, simply because DC puts out way more Batfamily books, than they put out for any other DC franchise.

[Dred]

She was flirty like comic book Jade and she hooked up with Roy and made Lian. That's about it.

The answer to inconsistency isn't more inconsistency.

Cheshire does need to be cleaned up as a character in order to remove all the dragon lady elements associated with the character. But I don't think making the daughter of the Sportsmaster and Paula Crock is the answer.



Not really, I think it's a much cleaner way of introducing the character than just revamping comic book Artemis to be more like. It's just giving her a younger sister on the side of good. Of course she won't have the same relationship with Wally, GA and other heroes but you could still keep her personality the same and have her build a connection with the BOP members.

She isn't unique but she does have a fanbase. Plenty of characters have made the leap from animation to comics. If there is interest around the character then no point in leaving her out of the comics .

See, my issue is that doesn't sound like Artemis to me. A character to me is the stories they're in the and the arc they go through, from origin to present. How their personality interacts with those things is more important to the character than just saying she has the same personality. Also a whole lot of Artemis' personality for the last three seasons is being protective of the younger generation of heroes, doubly so after losing Wally. I'm not sure how her being another of the plethora of battle babes in BOP consolidates any of that. Just sounds like Huntress with more steps. The only thing similar I suppose would be design, name, and being related to Cheshire -- but not even in the same way anymore so even that's kinda moot.

Like, aside from being related to Cheshire, what would be significantly different for her from, say, Mia Dearden? Blonde younger sister archer girl on the fringes of relevancy. Or Emiko, right down to the shadowy bad guy relationships. That's kind of what I mean -- if you're not bringing in the things unique to Artemis from YJ, I don't see what the point is when there's plenty of underused female archer type characters who exactly fill Artemis' other niches.

[Agent Z]

For a franchise of the size of Green Arrow that is a lot, since you have basically to put all these characters in team books to keep them around, since there is simply not enough space in the Green Arrow to give the sidekicks constant focus (especially since he now usually shares the book with Black Canary). And it is not like DC has that many successful team books.



My point is simply that you can't compare the Batfamily with the other DC families, simply because DC puts out way more Batfamily books, than they put out for any other DC franchise.

These are problems with how DC handles anything that isn't a Batfamily book not a problem with using Artemis. These excuses don't work because these are issues of DC's own making.

[Agent Z]

See, my issue is that doesn't sound like Artemis to me. A character to me is the stories they're in the and the arc they go through, from origin to present. How their personality interacts with those things is more important to the character than just saying she has the same personality. Also a whole lot of Artemis' personality for the last three seasons is being protective of the younger generation of heroes, doubly so after losing Wally. I'm not sure how her being another of the plethora of battle babes in BOP consolidates any of that. Just sounds like Huntress with more steps. The only thing similar I suppose would be design, name, and being related to Cheshire -- but not even in the same way anymore so even that's kinda moot.

Like, aside from being related to Cheshire, what would be significantly different for her from, say, Mia Dearden? Blonde younger sister archer girl on the fringes of relevancy. Or Emiko, right down to the shadowy bad guy relationships. That's kind of what I mean -- if you're not bringing in the things unique to Artemis from YJ, I don't see what the point is when there's plenty of underused female archer type characters who exactly fill Artemis' other niches.

Mia has no connections to any supervillains and is a former prostitute and has HIV/AIDS. Artemis's story is already greatly different from that. Emiko isn't an original idea either, basically being a mish mash of Thea Queen from Arrow and Artemis in YJ.

[Dred]

Mia has no connections to any supervillains and is a former prostitute and has HIV/AIDS. Artemis's story is already greatly different from that. Emiko isn't an original idea either, basically being a mish mash of Thea Queen from Arrow and Artemis in YJ.

Emiko has the shadowy connections, Mia has the hair. I'm not saying they're super unique either, and that's kind of the point. Emiko shows up sometimes but Mia hasn't in ages. The entire point is how overly redundant the characters are and I'm not sure where Artemis is any different. Being related to a d-list character who herself isn't ever a part of BoP stuff, and then saying "Well just put them in BoP!" is exactly my point.

Anyhow I'm kind of done just repeating what I was saying over and over. I'll peace out of the thread.

[TheRay]

I mean...Young Justice is already presented as being on an alternate Earth, so it's not like it truly matters either way.