Spider-man: No Way Home (spoilers)

[ZeroBG82]

Also, when Strange was discussing the memory spell with Wong, Strange implied he remembered an event while Wong did not.

I took that line as NEITHER of them remembers the party at Kamar Taj, but Strange remembers casting the spell that is the reason WHY they don't remember. So Strange knows some memory is missing, and Wong doesn't.

[jackolover]

As I wasn’t spoiled by anything before seeing this movie, I was extraordinarily surprised that the 3 Spider-Men appeared here. It had a very nostalgic feel to it, seeing as how Marvel had to fit Sony characters into a Marvel movie. I agree Toby Maguire stole the show. He seamlessly entered the screen from Spider-Man 3, as did Willem Dafoe as the Green Goblin. My audience reacted with 2 strong, loud, gasps when Toby and Andrew appeared. Andrew Garfield was just like his Amazing character, it was surreal. The villains were all good, but I didn’t see Sandman’s character just his VFX. Was there a problem with him appearing?

The 3 Spider-Men interacted to support themselves in this. One of the things about Spider-Man is that he always had to suffer alone with no one who could relate to his mission as powerfully as his own experience. (I always thought Tom Holland also lost his uncle Ben and that’s why he he became selfless as Spider-Man, but it appears he didn’t lose anyone until his aunt May). The fact these 3 could bounce off each other like brothers I thought really helped them to know Multiversal others were there that had their same experience and it’s strange. Each Spider-Man had a subtle difference from each other, but they really had to collect all their villains into their stable of a collective neighbourhood. That’s what was so strong here, what aunt May directed to Tom Holland to do here - we save bad people; that’s our priority. We don’t kill them to save ourselves. Tom Holland Spider-Man I still felt was very naive here, until he learnt that hard lesson. He was this kid who couldn’t foresee consequences for what he does, but aunt May gave him the mission statement he required. I don’t think aunt May (Marisa Tormey) ever dealt with superheroes, or knew about what they are supposed to stand for, until she saw here nephew was one of them. She must have taken a lot of time to digest this and as the adult of the family, she jelled it into a policy of the superheroes.

What I would like to see as a follow up movie for Tom Holland? I think I’d like Peter to remain anonymous - just some kid on the block nobody notices. He will have much more freedom, as he doesn’t have an aunt anymore, and, he doesn’t have to explain himself to anyone, like he was bound up with Ned and MJ. (I wonder if Peter Tom saw how contented Ned was in the ending, and decided Ned is better off not knowing?). It gives Peter Tom a chance to become independent and think about the superhero thing and what it means to be the Spider-Man.

It will take a few more viewings to digest this melding of all three franchises, and the joy it is to assemble Peters own Avengers team. It really was a gift to all the Spider-Man fans who loved those movies. Seeing the way Willem did the rendition of the goblin flawlessly, and Dr Octopus how he entered on the bridge crumpling up cars, were iconic moments, that we would not get in a Tom Holland movie, but here it is - we see Tom come face to face with the icons. I liked how Peter stole the boxed spell from Dr Strange, and played keepings off. That is so Ditko Spider-Man from that Annual.

[GSman]

I actually came across an interesting thought on Doc Ock's fate, doesn't he technically still have to die? If he's taken from the point in Spider-Man 2 that he describes, having his tentacle on Maguire Spider-Man's throat while he appeals to him for help in shutting down the fusion reactor, then he still needs to drown the reactor like he did previously, it's what he did when he finally gained control of his arms due to Spider-Man's speech. So I don't see how the result would be different this time he just wouldn't need to regain control of his arms through Spider-Man's encouragement now.

[Immortal Weapon]

I actually came across an interesting thought on Doc Ock's fate, doesn't he technically still have to die? If he's taken from the point in Spider-Man 2 that he describes, having his tentacle on Maguire Spider-Man's throat while he appeals to him for help in shutting down the fusion reactor, then he still needs to drown the reactor like he did previously, it's what he did when he finally gained control of his arms due to Spider-Man's speech. So I don't see how the result would be different this time he just wouldn't need to regain control of his arms through Spider-Man's encouragement now.

I think with the reform doc ock he will put a stop to his reactor sooner so he doesn't have to go down with it. By the time Peter reaches him dropping it into the river was the only way to stop it.

[Doctor Know]

I just left the theater. 10/10 the best Spider-Man movie. Large part due to the continuity of Sony’s previous films, our 3 Spectacular Spider-Men, the MCU Spider-Man finally coming into his own and the Frightful Five! I’m still geeking out about the duel between two of Ditko’s characters. Strange vs Spidey!

I didn’t see May’s death coming and I was generally sad for this Peter. He lost Stark and now May. I was happy to see both Peter variants talk and provide guidance to MCU Peter in his time of need. Sad that TASM Peter never got better after Gwen but he didn’t quit either.

That final swing and that new suit were equally spectacular. Perfect way to end the movie. Give me more!

[GSman]

I think with the reform doc ock he will put a stop to his reactor sooner so he doesn't have to go down with it. By the time Peter reaches him dropping it into the river was the only way to stop it.

But we're lead to believe that they're taken right back to the moment they came from, otherwise there's 2 versions of them occupying the same space, and by the time Peter reaches Otto while he's subdued in the water, he's already tried to cut the cords for the reactor like he did with the first one, but it didn't work as Doc Ock tells him its already self sustaining, so drowning it would still have to be the only course of action. They could just retcon that I guess, maybe they didn't think that one through entirely, so it's just the huge Rami Spidey fan in me looking too hard into it.

[Common Writer]

Just saw the film and it was great. It was more than great. It was spectacular!

It made me appreciate the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man even more.

[Deep0527]

This was the Spiderman MCU movie I have been waiting for. I didnt think I would enjoy it but I loved pretty much all of it! And damn MJ way to put Doc Strange in his place
Gangubai kathiawadi

[bat39]

When Spider-Man kept insisting on curing the villains, even when Dr. Strange and the villains themselves were against it, at first it made me upset with Spidey and I was thinking he was just wasting his time. Then I remembered where I'd had that feeling before - it was common while reading many of the Spider-Man comic books over the years.

This movie had quite a few of those moments that were true to the heart of what Spider-Man should be.

Yeah, on a personal level, I thought Peter's whole ''I must save the villains at all costs'' thing was incredibly naive and definitely something I wouldn't have done in his place. Then I remembered - that's the point of Spider-Man. There's always that naive innocence, that sense of childlike optimism and morality at the core of the character. And in this film we see it on full display not just with Holland's Peter (who's literally a child), but also with the more mature and adult Garfield and Maguire Peters too. Maguire's Peter is determined to help Osborn without a thought despite his own history with the latter and the fact that Osborn killed a version of his Aunt May (I kinda wish they'd acknowledged that bit, with Garfield and Maguire's Peters joining Holland's Peter in mourning this version of their aunt but I guess that might have taken away from the thrust of the narrative).

Peter isn't Batman. Hell, he isn't even Iron Man. He's not doing this for vengeance or just to eliminate threats to humanity. He's doing this to help people out of a sense of responsibility, and that includes the villains too. It may be naive. It may be ridiculously moralistic. But that's who he is!

I'm really glad the didn't try and touch on Peter Parker's parents from the ASM movies. That was a huge deal in those movies, and their worst misstep, and there is just no good way to redeem it. Smart. If even Stan Lee couldn't make the parents work, its best not to try!

I'm probably in the rare minority that was okay with all of that. It provided a new angle to the origin, something to differentiate it from the Raimi movies. It was in line, somewhat, with the Ultimate Universe, which Webb's films borrowed heavily from.

The problem was really the execution in TASM2. It was just another plot-point to be juggled and in the end it just didn't land with the impact that is was supposed to land with. I suppose there is a good movie in the idea that Richard Parker's DNA was used in the spiders and that Peter was thus the only one who could really have become Spider-Man, but it's something that needs to be handled very carefully and in a way that made sense. As it was presented though, the story is basically that Peter just happened to get bitten by a spider that could only give him it's powers! And all the mystery and intrigue around OsCorp, Norman Osborn and the fate of the Parkers basically amounted to ''Richard Parker didn't agree with what OsCorp was doing from an ethical perspective, so he broke away and got killed by them...oh and he uploaded all his data to a hidden base in the very unlikely event that his son (whom he never knew would become Spider-Man) would find it''.

TASM was a great origin story for this new take on the webslinger, but TASM2 just messed up everything with poor execution.

[JKtheMac]

I actually came across an interesting thought on Doc Ock's fate, doesn't he technically still have to die? If he's taken from the point in Spider-Man 2 that he describes, having his tentacle on Maguire Spider-Man's throat while he appeals to him for help in shutting down the fusion reactor, then he still needs to drown the reactor like he did previously, it's what he did when he finally gained control of his arms due to Spider-Man's speech. So I don't see how the result would be different this time he just wouldn't need to regain control of his arms through Spider-Man's encouragement now.

Ultimately, this doesn’t matter. People die. That isn’t the point of the dilemma that Peter is faced with.

While nominally he is told that they all die at the hands of Spider-Man, we know this wasn’t true anyway. The dilemma is that he is forced to fight them and yet it often isn’t their fault. We even get hints in the discussion between the villains that they are not necessarily from exactly the same universes as we have seen in previous movies. So we don’t know their ultimate fates and importantly, neither does Peter.

So the argument is between Stephen’s “It is their fate” and May’s assertion that there is another way “We fix people”. These are both very simplistic concepts but as a core dilemma for what could be a very complex story it serves well. It is enough for Peter to try, to do his best. To send them home better equipped to make their own choices. So Doc Ock may or may not have a choice. But he will be changed. He will face his fate a different person. Fate is not everything.

[Castle]

So I have finally gotten a lot of time to fully digest this film after I got a chance for a second rewatch. I can break this movie down honestly and completely. I will start with the good then the bad-meh-mediocre and the neutral


The Good


1. It's a Spiderman-lore film almost purely and completely, although for now this may still work as a negative for Holland's Spiderman because he never got a stand alone film, however this is generally still a Spiderman film and oh boy, what a complete superior self contained universe that Spiderman has compared to the rest of the MCU. In historical marvel lore, The X-Men universe usually gets number 1 spot for best stand alone world building marvel universe but I think maybe right now marvel should give at least 45% or even split it equally with Spiderman's universe. His Universe is excellent. It was finally beyond great to see Spiderman's universe carry itself with not much from Tony Stark or other MCU marvel characters.

2. The Villains performances. Yes, Norman Osborne, takes the cake here. he gave a very good performance. It would have been interesting to see him as the only villain in this film. Dr Orc started of as the strongest but he mellowed in the end as Norman rose.

I maybe was too hard on Jamie Foxx at first but I have softened, he was okay in this film, but I have always had an issue with Jamie Foxx in general, because many times I feel he never reaches his full potential as a good actor when he is in a movie

3. Maguire is the GOAT. Garfield is vindicated. I think this year will be a great year for what was in media used to be an overlooked, mocked or... let's ignore some Marvel and DC fans in the general comic fandom, who were maybe not so deep into the MCU or the DCU trying to be like MCU now, because first, Zack Snyder gets vindicated with the Snyder Cut early this year, now Andrew Garfield gets vindicated as well as Spiderman by the end of the year, to the marvel and DC fans that stood by those men and fought for them even when you were told to let it go, You have all been rewarded this year in 2021.

I still personally prefer Maguire over Garfield, but I get the Garfield appeal finally. He was great in this film and yes, he is the best Spiderman that nailed the comic quipping that never felt disney cheesy like when Holland's Quips. the part when Electro, tells him...''you aint the **** no more'' and Garfield nod his head and goes huh, that was genius comedy from Garfield.

4. I loved Maguire in this film, just as the elderly wisdom guy, what would have made this movie even better for Maguire is to see him go home to Kristen Dunst's Mary Jane. As a fan, who was and is still a big Spiderman and Mary Jane Shipper, I was just so happy to know that Peter and MJ still made it work in the Sam Raimi universe after Spiderman 3.

In the MCU, I never got the passionate way, Maguire loved his MJ when it comes to Holland and Zandaya, but again I blame this more on the Disney factor with Holland and Zandaya. they have the weakest Spiderman love story in movies, at least with Garfield's Spiderman and Emma Stone's Gwen, you get the great first love in the amazing Spiderman films. Holland and Zandaya is too puppy love cute to take them seriously.


And now to the Meh-Mediocre, Some of these is more of a technical issue for marvel that is now pretty much stands out but still needs a call out as long as they keeppopping out movies.

Meh-Mediocre

1. The screenplay was pretty meh, it was very very surface level. disney again continues to ruin marvel's screen writing. usually a multiverse story should be very rich, but this movie wasn't. it was pretty generic all around in writing , saved and I mean really really saved on Nostalgia. Once you remove the Characters from the Raimi and Garfield films, this movie cant really stand on its own as a Holland self involved Spiderman film that is still one branch of a multiverse This is one area, you have to give the edge to Into the Spiderverse as the superior film in writing. The other spidermans did not overshadow or overwhelm Miles Morales.


The Nostalgia of this film overpowers the film itself. If you are not a big Spiderman fan or a big comic fan, you may find this movie very annoying. However since I am a Spiderman and comic fan, I am giving this comment as a technical objective point. which is seeing fairly the other side of the debate, so if this film has haters, I will get were some are coming from.

2. The introduction of the villains and other Spidermans sometimes did not flow well with the story. Dr Orc, got the best introduction, also how they had already captured, Sandman and Lizard already felt pretty week but this goes back to the screenplay. Electro's introduction was very obvious.

Additionally The introduction of other Spiderman's felt like watching a talk show, maybe Oprah and then Oprah announces she has a surprise guest and she calls them out and they enter the stage. it would have been better, if MCU Spiderman characters (MJ and Ned) found Garfield and Maguire, doing something in the moment, than just calling them out and they appear, it felt too easy and too simplistic for a multiverse story to the point of breaking the 4th wall that says....hey guys, look who is here? Tobey and Andrew.

3. MJ and Ned: They were weak points in this movie, I did not like their arc at all. To silly and childish for this kind of film with such legendary Spiderman villains of 20 years, they are more childish than the scooby doos they were supposed to be and no I never thought the scooby doo characters were ever childish. Fred, Shaggy, Daphe and Velma acted like proper teens. Ned and MJ dialogue in most of the third arc was quite kiddie, Ned's voice sounds like a 7 year old most of the time, during the last arc.


Holland's kid's voice as well. it sort of felt silly that Holland and his kid tone voice was leading older and more experienced Spidermans like Maguire and Garfield and giving them orders to follow as Peter 1. Let's be honest in a realistic world, Tobey Maguire would be Peter 1 even if he has never worked as part of a team or don't know who the Avengers were. Maguire and Garfield drowned Holland. Bad for Holland.

4.The technical aspects of the film was pretty meh, I really think MCU should do away with the colours, I do not get the animated purple skies in the end, I know some subjective MCU fans may come hard on me with this one, but I do feel honestly maybe this kind of movie could have benefited from a lighter Zack Snyder film making style. the main issue this movie may have in the coming future is that, the movie will end up looking very cartoonish compared to an actual great cartoon like Into the Spiderverse, which will not do No Way Home any favours as a live action film.



The Neutral

I was pretty okay with Dr Strange Happy and Aunt May story arc. Although with Aunty May I went back and forth on if this should be a meh-mediocre, because I just never liked this Aunt May. She always came of more as a friend/Older sister, I just never took her seriously. her death to me had no deep weight, maybe it is because the other mcu spiderman films leaned too much on action comedy. I got more emotional in Spiderman 1 2002, when Aunt May was nearly killed by green goblin as she was praying with Uncle Ben's picture on her bed.

So there in it all, all my general thoughts

As a overall Spiderman fan I will give the movie a 7/10. Its Spiderman to its lore and this is enough for a basic fan. even if there are flaws at least you know you are dealing with the real lore of Spiderman than some iron man stuff.

As a film fan, I will give a 5/10. This one hurts but there is just no excuse, I am even holding back not to give a 4/10 because I had to rewatch the Sam Raimi films to prep for this and yeah, I have an issue looking at a movie of 20 years that has better film quality to the one I just yesterday in cinema. Cinemathogprhay, Writing, Editing, VFX, Art Direction could have been better. Let go of the mass-manfactutired one note ware-house style marvel. let go, let go, let go.

As an MCU standard fun pop corn movie I will give it a 8/10 compared to all their other films, very thankful because MCU has needed some kind of elevation, even if I don't think this is should be the formula in the long run of bringing past marvel characters from Sony or even Fox films, but finally MCU really needed this especially after Black Widow and Eternals and even Shang Chi.


All this should bring my overall final score of No Way Home to a 6.6/10 or just round it up to 7/10 by Microsoft excel style.

[JKtheMac]

I honestly hoped that the good will from this movie might finally allow those who don’t like Holland to thaw a little. But it seems not. I really don’t understand it though. Very clearly this movie goes out of it’s way to nail down the point that this is a very young Peter Parker and that he has hardly begun on his journey.

Criticising that by comparing it to movies where the characters are blatantly aimed at an older sensibility just makes no sense. The whole point of the Holland / Zandaya relationship is that it is puppy love. That isn’t a criticism that is an acknowledgment of the charm of the movies.

How anyone can come away from this movie believing Holland was ‘drowned’ is clearly looking at things through a very warped lens. He holds the movie together and is obviously a phenomenal talent. Yes Garfield is redeemed a little but he isn’t as good an actor and never has been. Maguire is Maguire. He downplays his performance deliberately which is actually pretty generous of him considering his reputation. He never tries to overshadow anyone, and he doesn’t.

[Castle]

I honestly hoped that the good will from this movie might finally allow those who don’t like Holland to thaw a little. But it seems not. I really don’t understand it though. Very clearly this movie goes out of it’s way to nail down the point that this is a very young Peter Parker and that he has hardly begun on his journey.


Criticising that by comparing it to movies where the characters are blatantly aimed at an older sensibility just makes no sense. The whole point of the Holland / Zandaya relationship is that it is puppy love. That isn’t a criticism that is an acknowledgment of the charm of the movies.

Holland's Spderman was rightly criticised because the foundation for his Spiderman was weak.

Do you think Tobey/Kristen and Andrew/Emma Peter/MJ and Peter/Gwen just set the bar too high that it is hard to take the puppy love here as a proper thing, as I said though, I blame this more on Disney 's influence on Marvel scripts than Zandaya and Holland.

As I said, I loved how Tobey Maguire insanely loved Kristen Dunst MJ in the Sam Raimi movies to the point of holy obsession. they give reasons to why people write fan fictions. Holland/Zandaya dont give me that drive as a Peter/MJ shipper , which I think is a tad odd, because many times the ship love is born easily from high school settings or when the characters are teens.

How anyone can come away from this movie believing Holland was ‘drowned’ is clearly looking at things through a very warped lens. He holds the movie together and is obviously a phenomenal talent. Yes Garfield is redeemed a little but he isn’t as good an actor and never has been. Maguire is Maguire. He downplays his performance deliberately which is actually pretty generous of him considering his reputation. He never tries to overshadow anyone, and he doesn’t.

The villains that are not even Holland's Spiderman MCU villains hold the movie together for the most half part of the film and by end of the second act , leading to the third arc when Andrew and Tobey come in. They are the real reason this movie is been watched and will get over at least 1.5 billion at the box office.

It's funny you mentioned this because I feel right now the Love for Garfield is deserved. Garfield was actually the one trying to hold those Amazing Spiderman films together, without all the perks that this film or even the past films handed to Holland. I have no personal issue with Holland as an actor, but he has always been the weakest Spiderman and this movie confirmed it...again.

Also I think maybe your post felt like it leaned towards subjective pure fan comments with saying Garfield is not a good actor, when his body of work is strong. He is a tony winner, he has been on Broadway and has had success many films. Also I try as much as I can not to give replies when I see these types of comments, However I am only replying here because I am a life long Spiderman fan. so its personal.

Yeah to the Yes. Maguire down plays his performance here. The raimi verse villains had already overshadowed this movie and if Maguire had not played down his performance, it would have been a wipe out of all things mcu spiderman that are in this film. reason Maguire is the GOAT. He does nor even need to try hard

However if you want some good from Holland, maybe visit Spiderman cbr forum more, I think the Spiderman fans over there will finally ease off on calling him iron boy, which is actually a big positive for his character.

[Jack The Tripper]

I personally found the inclusion of the multiverse to be fun, but not necessarily as interesting as what the story could have been without it. Although I really really liked the movie as is, it’s a bit of a mess due to its concept and where it was left off after FFH.

Garfield was great, but I think he was written substantially better than in his movies - he came across a lot less dickish in this movie. Tobey was fine in my opinion, but I definitely think his performance wasn’t as good as Holland or Garfield. You can tell he hasn’t acted in a few years imo.

For me personally, this film never lost sight of it being Holland’s movie. I think if Sony made this film without Disney, we’d be looking at a much messier film that relies more on nostalgia (for what it’s worth, I think the final product balanced it all well). The plot being centred around Peter not wanting people to die really anchored it for me.

I think people rallying for an Amazing Spider-Man 3 with Garfield need to be careful, because chances are it will be as bad as the other two and the venom movies. If it does happen, I hope Garfield gets the writing and direction he deserves.

[Username taken]

I personally found the inclusion of the multiverse to be fun, but not necessarily as interesting as what the story could have been without it. Although I really really liked the movie as is, it’s a bit of a mess due to its concept and where it was left off after FFH.

Garfield was great, but I think he was written substantially better than in his movies - he came across a lot less dickish in this movie. Tobey was fine in my opinion, but I definitely think his performance wasn’t as good as Holland or Garfield. You can tell he hasn’t acted in a few years imo.

For me personally, this film never lost sight of it being Holland’s movie. I think if Sony made this film without Disney, we’d be looking at a much messier film that relies more on nostalgia (for what it’s worth, I think the final product balanced it all well). The plot being centred around Peter not wanting people to die really anchored it for me.

I think people rallying for an Amazing Spider-Man 3 with Garfield need to be careful, because chances are it will be as bad as the other two and the venom movies. If it does happen, I hope Garfield gets the writing and direction he deserves.

The internet is weird.

The Amazing Spider-man movies weren't well received. At all.

I'm not sure why people are asking for an Amazing Spider-man 3, Sony hasn't been able to manage the Spider-man series well at all. People are caught up in their nostalgia.

I'm not even sure Garfield will want to return to the role if Sony is producing it themselves.