Level 100 DnD Wizard (3.5e) vs Dark Schneider (Adam of Darkness)

[950Killer]

Maximum potential/Pun-Pun Level 100 DnD Wizard (3.5e)




Vs.


Dark Schneider (Adam of Darkness)



Rules:

• Morals off
• Anything goes
• Both will have 1 month prep time
• Limited Intel
• PIS off
• CIS off
• Location: Konoha

[Beadle]

Just to note, PIS is always off. Otherwise rumbles become “So what do you want to happen?” which really does not lead to a successful outcome.

And ‘Morals Off’ (which is kind of the default here anyway), is basically redundant when we’re talking about ‘Some Generic Wizard of Indeterminate Alignment’ vs Dark Schneider. Because morals aren’t getting in their way anyway.

Also, what constitutes “Limited Intel”?

[The MunchKING]

For a maximized Cheese level wizard with a month to prep, "Limited Intel" is pretty much "anything known about him by any beings less than the Gods". I mean Divination is FULL of wacky stuff even before you get to Planar Ally or something to just ASK the Gods what's going on with that guy. Although if all 100 levels are Wizard, that might be a lot less bonkers than some builds, because after 20 the progression slows way down, and you could get Epic Feats (Including spellcasting) no matter what class you're in.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I haven't watched or read Bastard, but isn't a full out Dark Schneider a universal-level cosmic being?

[Nik Hasta]

I haven't watched or read Bastard, but isn't a full out Dark Schneider a universal-level cosmic being?

Not exactly, or well maybe...

I did a bit of a breakdown of his abilities in this thread a while back.

Spoilers, a lot of it is predicated on flavour text.

[BitVyper]

Levels that high become all but impossible to quantify outside of just guessing that the numbers actually mean anything. Same goes for Dark Schneider having a whole lot of unverifiable narrative to his name. DS at any point in the series should pretty casually trump basically anything a reasonable D&D wizard can do, but scaling off into nowhere land makes it harder to say. That said, I don't think anything shy of epic spells is going to be worth much in a fight with him, and those take a bit of work to get going on top of DS already being pretty fast and able to toss lots of spells around pretty rapidly. I'd probably bet on Darsh.

[The MunchKING]

Levels that high become all but impossible to quantify outside of just guessing that the numbers actually mean anything. Same goes for Dark Schneider having a whole lot of unverifiable narrative to his name. DS at any point in the series should pretty casually trump basically anything a reasonable D&D wizard can do, but scaling off into nowhere land makes it harder to say. That said, I don't think anything shy of epic spells is going to be worth much in a fight with him, and those take a bit of work to get going on top of DS already being pretty fast and able to toss lots of spells around pretty rapidly. I'd probably bet on Darsh.

Well, the other thing is he specifically called out Pun-Pun. And if he's engaging in anywhere NEAR Pun-Pun level shenaniganary, He basically has arbitrarily high stats, every ability in the game useable at will, all the Gods' abilities, and limitless everything else based on stats or HD.

[BitVyper]

Yeah, but that's also a question, because Pun Pun needs prep to do that (and is also based on a pretty dubious interpretation of the rules in the first place), and again... it doesn't really tell us a lot past a certain point aside strength, which is fairly simple to measure since the game has a formula for lifting ability, and that translates easily into other types of force. What actually does a billion dexterity do? It certainly means he'd go first against other D&D things, but that's all we really have that's verifiable with no good way to say like X dexterity is mach 3 reflexes or whatever.

[The MunchKING]

What actually does a billion dexterity do?

It means he can dodge literally anything that can be dodged.

Because that's +half a billion to his reflex saves and as a Dodge bonus to AC. Which means it also works on touch attacks and the like.

[BitVyper]

It means he can dodge literally anything that can be dodged.

Because that's +half a billion to his reflex saves and as a Dodge bonus to AC. Which means it also works on touch attacks and the like.

It means he has a 19/20 chance (natural 1s fail saving throws in 3.5) to dodge literally anything that fits into the context of D&D, which usually caps out bonuses around +60 even when you get crazy. It doesn't tell us anything past that because it's already hard to tell how things are scaling before we even get to the normal crazy levels.

And that's still a 1/20 chance to fail anything, and Darsh allegedly throws a lot of attacks very very fast in his own weirdly hard to define logic, so 1/20 is still potentially just an unlimited number of hits.

[The MunchKING]

It means he has a 19/20 chance (natural 1s fail saving throws in 3.5) to dodge literally anything that fits into the context of D&D,

He's also got the powers that let you ignore the 1s auto-fail thing...

[BitVyper]

He's also got the powers that let you ignore the 1s auto-fail thing...

Natural 20s still hit him and Darsh has proven that he can shut down certain divine abilities in the past.

And again, this is all predicated on Pun Pun getting basically unlimited one sided prep

[The MunchKING]

Natural 20s still hit him and Darsh has proven that he can shut down certain divine abilities in the past.

And again, this is all predicated on Pun Pun getting basically unlimited one sided prep

Well he had to get to level 100 at some point. It's not like he was born that way.

[Nik Hasta]

Since this is, essentially, game mechanics versus ridiculous flavour text and I seem to have the most passing knowledge of Bastard!! I'll chip in a bit here.

I'll caveat this by saying that a lot of this stuff wouldn't normally fly on Rumbles because it's mostly flavour text and Bastard!! seems to be pretty inconsistent with it's scale and all that but it's the festive period and it seems like a laugh.

With the whole Natural 20s auto-hit thing. How do we define "hits" on Darsh exactly? He has both his Dispel Bound [super multi-layered "each layer specifically hard counters/nullifies a type of damage" shields]



...and the concept of his "Eternal Atoms" wherein in any damage he does take has to breach /specifically/ every layer of his Dispel Bound or he'll just instantly regenerate it. So, for example, at one point Uriel smacks Darsh and literally reduces his head to vapour but because it didn't breach all of the shields and damage his Eternal Atoms, he just regenerates his head in the next instant.

And Uriel and Darsh are stated to be exchanging "millions of attacks a second,"

So, the gimmick is, to hurt him properly, you apparently have to damage him on every conceivable level simultaneously to hurt him at all and then there's the question of his own natural durability and regeneration. What does that mean in a maxxed out D&D context?

[Sharpandpointies]

D&D is kind of tough to deal with, outside of the rules in context (ie, against itself). As noted in a previous thread, because they don't give so much flavor text for a whole lot of special abilities (just 'it does this in the numbers/rules'), it gets pretty hard to judge those things other than 'against other stuff in D&D'. Which means we're limited by what D&D can do to judge things (as Bitvyper notes), maybe +1 (haha) for stuff that absolutely no-sells anything in D&D.