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  1. #1
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Default Aquaman: questions about the King of the Seas' comics

    So, Aquaman is currently title-less.

    But, given that he's just had an HBOmax animated offering and a big-budget film coming next year, I can't see Arthur Curry on the comix sideline for much longer.

    So, some questions:

    1. What volume would this next ongoing Aquaman series be? Volume 9? Volume 6? I can't figure it out.

    2. If you did legacy numbering, what overall issue is Aquaman up to by now?

    3. What writer would be ideal for a new Aquaman series in 2022?

    4. What artist (penciller) would be ideal for a new Aquaman series in 2022?

    5. Beyond Black Manta and Ocean Master, what other villainous characters need a bigger spotlight in the Aquaverse?

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    So, Aquaman is currently title-less.

    But, given that he's just had an HBOmax animated offering and a big-budget film coming next year, I can't see Arthur Curry on the comix sideline for much longer.

    So, some questions:

    1. What volume would this next ongoing Aquaman series be? Volume 9? Volume 6? I can't figure it out.

    2. If you did legacy numbering, what overall issue is Aquaman up to by now?

    3. What writer would be ideal for a new Aquaman series in 2022?

    4. What artist (penciller) would be ideal for a new Aquaman series in 2022?

    5. Beyond Black Manta and Ocean Master, what other villainous characters need a bigger spotlight in the Aquaverse?
    1) Volume 9 -
    2) can't say it is so convulsed that a definite answer can't be given.
    3) Bring back Parker his run was criminally cut short.
    4) Mendonca
    5) It is up to the creative team to come up with something new

    That said Aquaman will continue to be sidelined until the people at DC realize that the path they have taken has not worked. Basically since New52(till parker) it was in the right direction. Rebirth was riddled with editorial vetoes that took out the wind from the sails it started with.
    Now they gave the book to a writer who with all respects is breaking all the negative records for Aquaman. It has the lowest selling books for all DC titles and even in the history of Aquaman. The new ongoing AquaMen will be another big fail unfortunately. Unless real talent is given to Aquaman all the work done with New52 to redefine him and make his books sell, will be thrown away.

  3. #3
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    So, Aquaman is currently title-less.

    But, given that he's just had an HBOmax animated offering and a big-budget film coming next year, I can't see Arthur Curry on the comix sideline for much longer.
    Aquamen #1 is coming next month with Arthur & Jackson headlining.

    So, some questions:

    1. What volume would this next ongoing Aquaman series be? Volume 9? Volume 6? I can't figure it out. Volume 9

    2. If you did legacy numbering, what overall issue is Aquaman up to by now? Not including Showcase appearances, annuals etc my math has 319 - but I could be wrong!

    3. What writer would be ideal for a new Aquaman series in 2022? Well, we'll see how how Brandon Thomas goes. Put me down for a Parker return too. His short run was great.

    4. What artist (penciller) would be ideal for a new Aquaman series in 2022? Phil Jimenez

    5. Beyond Black Manta and Ocean Master, what other villainous characters need a bigger spotlight in the Aquaverse?
    I've always been fond of the Eel. The Fisherman could use an upgrade and I know I'll probably be keelhauled for saying so, I'd like someone to flesh out Noble!! I thought the idea was great but the execution was lacking.
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  4. #4
    Mighty Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    I've always been fond of the Eel. The Fisherman could use an upgrade and I know I'll probably be keelhauled for saying so, I'd like someone to flesh out Noble!! I thought the idea was great but the execution was lacking.
    bro, with these latest sales(epic disasters) in 3 Aquaman books out there, with the same writer, we are heading for a disaster in the new ongoing, unfortunately, not even with Ollie on one of the books, it languishes at the very bottom of the latest data.

    Now those 3 books are meant to connect to the new ongoing, with such low number of readers, it will not sell. Unless they make changes, hopefully the editor who supervised those books is moving on, she was the one who approved those books, so something might happen. But my guess is the book will stay until the movie and canceled afterwards. Hoping no big damage is done to the characters.

    As for the villain we need a writer that is able to create a new one, honestly manta and orm the only ones are becoming boring.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldrake View Post
    bro, with these latest sales(epic disasters) in 3 Aquaman books out there, with the same writer, we are heading for a disaster in the new ongoing, unfortunately, not even with Ollie on one of the books, it languishes at the very bottom of the latest data.

    Now those 3 books are meant to connect to the new ongoing, with such low number of readers, it will not sell. Unless they make changes, hopefully the editor who supervised those books is moving on, she was the one who approved those books, so something might happen. But my guess is the book will stay until the movie and canceled afterwards. Hoping no big damage is done to the characters.

    As for the villain we need a writer that is able to create a new one, honestly manta and orm the only ones are becoming boring.
    How does nobody see the potential in revamping the Fisherman?
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  6. #6
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldrake View Post
    bro, with these latest sales(epic disasters) in 3 Aquaman books out there, with the same writer, we are heading for a disaster in the new ongoing, unfortunately, not even with Ollie on one of the books, it languishes at the very bottom of the latest data.

    Now those 3 books are meant to connect to the new ongoing, with such low number of readers, it will not sell. Unless they make changes, hopefully the editor who supervised those books is moving on, she was the one who approved those books, so something might happen. But my guess is the book will stay until the movie and canceled afterwards. Hoping no big damage is done to the characters.

    As for the villain we need a writer that is able to create a new one, honestly manta and orm the only ones are becoming boring.
    I absolutely ADORE Ollie and Arthur.
    I've collected their various titles for decades.
    I will give any book where they are headlining a go.
    But I didn't like the first issue of Hard Target and dropped it.
    I've always been able to take or leave Jackson, so I didn't buy his mini series either.
    I DID enjoy the Future State issues, which is why I'm picking up Aquamen #1.

    I don't know about the sales figures, but neither GA or Aquaman have ever been huge sellers.
    (Not counting Johns' Aquaman relaunch or Kevin Smith's GA relaunch)
    DC might be quite happy with how they're performing.
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  7. #7
    Mighty Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    I absolutely ADORE Ollie and Arthur.
    I've collected their various titles for decades.
    I will give any book where they are headlining a go.
    But I didn't like the first issue of Hard Target and dropped it.
    I've always been able to take or leave Jackson, so I didn't buy his mini series either.
    I DID enjoy the Future State issues, which is why I'm picking up Aquamen #1.

    I don't know about the sales figures, but neither GA or Aquaman have ever been huge sellers.
    (Not counting Johns' Aquaman relaunch or Kevin Smith's GA relaunch)
    DC might be quite happy with how they're performing.
    The problem is that despite not being usually great sellers, they are still well below the tolerance limit for DC, a Nr 1 issue usually starts with a good number of sales and afterwards it drops issue after issue. Now With a Nr 1 issue that low means the drop will hurt, making it not worth the paper it is printed on. Having Ice cream man and Sweet Paprika doing better at sales than The Becoming is indicative.
    Arthur and Ollie together was meant to bring in both set of fans in attempt to have decent sales, now it is selling even worse than their usual solos.
    The Thomas books are also meant to lead in Aquamen, with people not reading these books, it will make no sense for them. Some will buy it out of loyalty but it will not be enough, Aquaman cannot survive another cancelation, DC will blame the characters. When what is needed is a new writer, it is evident that he is the problem, all his books underperform even by the usual standards for sales with these characters.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldrake View Post
    The problem is that despite not being usually great sellers, they are still well below the tolerance limit for DC, a Nr 1 issue usually starts with a good number of sales and afterwards it drops issue after issue. Now With a Nr 1 issue that low means the drop will hurt, making it not worth the paper it is printed on. Having Ice cream man and Sweet Paprika doing better at sales than The Becoming is indicative.
    Arthur and Ollie together was meant to bring in both set of fans in attempt to have decent sales, now it is selling even worse than their usual solos.
    The Thomas books are also meant to lead in Aquamen, with people not reading these books, it will make no sense for them. Some will buy it out of loyalty but it will not be enough, Aquaman cannot survive another cancelation, DC will blame the characters. When what is needed is a new writer, it is evident that he is the problem, all his books underperform even by the usual standards for sales with these characters.

    Yes, really what it all boils down to is how much DC TRULY wants non-A-listers like Ollie and Arthur to succeed; if they TRULY cared and want their books to sale, they would put big name, A-list creators on them, as evidenced by the time when they put Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis on Aquaman and put Kevin Smith on Green Arrow. The books were commercial successes then and sold very well, so if they really WANTED them to succeed and sell well again, then all they would have to do is put the money and effort into it via the creators they chose to headline the books. So, evidently, DC is just not TOO worried about Green Arrow or Aquaman, as sad as that may be...

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    Yes, really what it all boils down to is how much DC TRULY wants non-A-listers like Ollie and Arthur to succeed; if they TRULY cared and want their books to sale, they would put big name, A-list creators on them, as evidenced by the time when they put Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis on Aquaman and put Kevin Smith on Green Arrow. The books were commercial successes then and sold very well, so if they really WANTED them to succeed and sell well again, then all they would have to do is put the money and effort into it via the creators they chose to headline the books. So, evidently, DC is just not TOO worried about Green Arrow or Aquaman, as sad as that may be...
    I partially agree but Not sure if DC is not TOO worried, the issue is that these characters have been in the hands of the wrong people at editorial level, people who think they can have their way, their personal views and it will work. The Aquaman issue all boils down on who is after all this flop, an editor who cares more to please her followers on twitter than what is good and necessary for the characters. The reasons she promoted this type of books don't make sense and at the end they will harm the characters.

    As you mention A list writers are what is needed, but I doubt those writers would do what was being asked, Thomas being a relative nobody, put up no resistance so he fitted the requirements. End result a huge mess.
    Williamson hinted that he was interested in taking Aquaman, but also stated that DC had other plans, so it could mean he wasn't ready to do what they wanted him to do.
    While a Johns unlikely return on Aquaman would be a Awesome, even Parker being back would help the book, in his short run despite taking over from Geoff, which put his run in comparison with what preceded him, he did well even in terms of sales. He was clever to follow the path traced and it worked, He stated he wanted to avoid useless drama and focus on adventure and fun.
    What DC does not understand that both Green Arrow and Aquaman don't need controversial takes or experimenting with them, just do what works, even decent writers could achieve results. Naturally an A List writer would be ideal. Seems we are back to pre N52 days, when they had a problem especially with Aquaman, which was solved and now it is back to square one.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldrake View Post
    That said Aquaman will continue to be sidelined until the people at DC realize that the path they have taken has not worked. Basically since New52(till parker) it was in the right direction. Rebirth was riddled with editorial vetoes that took out the wind from the sails it started with.
    Now they gave the book to a writer who with all respects is breaking all the negative records for Aquaman. It has the lowest selling books for all DC titles and even in the history of Aquaman. The new ongoing AquaMen will be another big fail unfortunately. Unless real talent is given to Aquaman all the work done with New52 to redefine him and make his books sell, will be thrown away.
    I understand that DC had 5G plans and are still trying to salvage them, but I really don't get them when it comes to Aquaman. It does feel like 2010s was the decade when Aquaman finally took off with Johns/Reis run and Aquaman movie being commercial hit. So you know, new movie is coming up so maybe it is time to get your shit together and publish another good Aquaman run. But no, lets instead replace him with a Z-lister.

    Say what you want about other replacements, but at least they have some "gimmick" to attract attention. Fox is black Batman, Jon is actual son of Clark/Lois, Jo and Yara are brand new characters that have solid creative teams attached. Yara is targeting Brasil/Latin America niche that is not really well served and Jo's Far Sector collection is doing real good on Amazon. I don't like that they are "trying" to replace older heroes, but at least I can see how that was/is supposed to work. But Jackson? Not new character, does not serve any niche, does not have any gimmicks, does not have strong fanbase, does not have any critically or commercially acclaimed stories. Oh, but he was in Young Justice as if that is enough to headline a title.

    And I don't have anything against Thomas, I have read few of his things and I think he is a decent writer, but DC has stacked the deck against him and he is going to fail.

  11. #11
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    Yes, really what it all boils down to is how much DC TRULY wants non-A-listers like Ollie and Arthur to succeed; if they TRULY cared and want their books to sale, they would put big name, A-list creators on them, as evidenced by the time when they put Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis on Aquaman and put Kevin Smith on Green Arrow. The books were commercial successes then and sold very well, so if they really WANTED them to succeed and sell well again, then all they would have to do is put the money and effort into it via the creators they chose to headline the books. So, evidently, DC is just not TOO worried about Green Arrow or Aquaman, as sad as that may be...
    DC doesn't have many star writers right now. There's Tom Taylor (who is controversial), Tom King (who is also controversial), Matthew Fraction (who probably wouldn't do a long run), maybe Bendis, and I can't think of anyone else.

    This doesn't mean that there aren't quality writers that create compelling stories, but they don't bring in readers all on their own. And I suppose DC could hire someone from outside though.

  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I understand that DC had 5G plans and are still trying to salvage them, but I really don't get them when it comes to Aquaman. It does feel like 2010s was the decade when Aquaman finally took off with Johns/Reis run and Aquaman movie being commercial hit. So you know, new movie is coming up so maybe it is time to get your shit together and publish another good Aquaman run. But no, lets instead replace him with a Z-lister.

    Say what you want about other replacements, but at least they have some "gimmick" to attract attention. Fox is black Batman, Jon is actual son of Clark/Lois, Jo and Yara are brand new characters that have solid creative teams attached. Yara is targeting Brasil/Latin America niche that is not really well served and Jo's Far Sector collection is doing real good on Amazon. I don't like that they are "trying" to replace older heroes, but at least I can see how that was/is supposed to work. But Jackson? Not new character, does not serve any niche, does not have any gimmicks, does not have strong fanbase, does not have any critically or commercially acclaimed stories. Oh, but he was in Young Justice as if that is enough to headline a title.

    And I don't have anything against Thomas, I have read few of his things and I think he is a decent writer, but DC has stacked the deck against him and he is going to fail.
    Well, he's black and gay, so there is that. He probably has more of an established fanbase than some of the newer names.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I understand that DC had 5G plans and are still trying to salvage them, but I really don't get them when it comes to Aquaman. It does feel like 2010s was the decade when Aquaman finally took off with Johns/Reis run and Aquaman movie being commercial hit. So you know, new movie is coming up so maybe it is time to get your shit together and publish another good Aquaman run. But no, lets instead replace him with a Z-lister.

    Say what you want about other replacements, but at least they have some "gimmick" to attract attention. Fox is black Batman, Jon is actual son of Clark/Lois, Jo and Yara are brand new characters that have solid creative teams attached. Yara is targeting Brasil/Latin America niche that is not really well served and Jo's Far Sector collection is doing real good on Amazon. I don't like that they are "trying" to replace older heroes, but at least I can see how that was/is supposed to work. But Jackson? Not new character, does not serve any niche, does not have any gimmicks, does not have strong fanbase, does not have any critically or commercially acclaimed stories. Oh, but he was in Young Justice as if that is enough to headline a title.

    And I don't have anything against Thomas, I have read few of his things and I think he is a decent writer, but DC has stacked the deck against him and he is going to fail.
    I agree, but it takes more than Thomas to lift the book, he was given a job that he is not up to the task. He doesn't understand the Aquaworld, he writes them out of character. Take Mera in the becoming, she is afraid of two common Atlantean guards, when Mera when threatened usually would lose her temper, she would vaporize them on the spot, instead she runs away. Even in Future state he showed lack of creativity and knowledge of Aquaverse, he made Andy and jackson swim like normal humans, when Atlanteans propel themselves, The water leg for Andy is that an original concept? Not to mention the confused story no wonder it registered the lowest sales in FS.
    If they wanted a new character as you mention, They should have focused on Andy instead, she is new, carries weight with fans as being the daughter of Arthur and Mera, which would have helped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, he's black and gay, so there is that. He probably has more of an established fanbase than some of the newer names.
    If he does have a fanbase, it is not showing up or does not exist, The Becoming is the lowest selling DC book from all books they print in a month, not even close to the newer names, Not even to Black Manta which is selling much better.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    This doesn't mean that there aren't quality writers that create compelling stories, but they don't bring in readers all on their own. And I suppose DC could hire someone from outside though.
    It's hard to get writers when FANS make them unwelcome before a single issue comes out. Especially those of certain demographics.

    Also those writers have fans but do those fans bother with comic books or it might just be the COMPANY in question that is the issue.

    Funny Brandon Thomas has no issues with his books at Image.

    I would suggest the issue is NOT Thomas as some WANT it to be but what he is allowed by DC to do. Since these are characters that he does NOT own.

    Along with maybe his fans are NOT interested in DC since this company has been rather toxic to a LOT of folks. Who have NOT forgotten what was done to Wally, Titans and others.

    Which is part of the reason DC is having trouble getting writers.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    It's hard to get writers when FANS make them unwelcome before a single issue comes out. Especially those of certain demographics.

    Also those writers have fans but do those fans bother with comic books or it might just be the COMPANY in question that is the issue.

    Funny Brandon Thomas has no issues with his books at Image.

    I would suggest the issue is NOT Thomas as some WANT it to be but what he is allowed by DC to do. Since these are characters that he does NOT own.

    Along with maybe his fans are NOT interested in DC since this company has been rather toxic to a LOT of folks. Who have NOT forgotten what was done to Wally, Titans and others.

    Which is part of the reason DC is having trouble getting writers.
    than give a reason why ALL the books he is doing are so low in sales? DC may have it's faults in approving certain takes, but having Green Arrow and Aquaman first issue so low in sales is unheard of, for a number one. Even people who never criticize are now saying it is a disaster, one of the most reliable and most respected source for Aquaman on twitter, did not mince words for The becoming, they never done that before, they waited for the latest issue, so we can't say they did not give it a chance.
    That a writer does not understand the characters is not unheard of, maybe on others he did or will do fine, but on these he ain't, those sales numbers don't lie. Blaming DC fans as toxic is an exaggeration maybe his fans aren't interested in the characters he is writing. It is not the first time we heard writer X has followers but don't turn out for a particular book, on Aquaman it happened recently with KSD and for the record I loved her run(one of the few it seems).

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