Krakoa's importance expounded on and explained PERFECTLY.

[JB]

Right, that mess is not interesting to read about anymore. We been through it for decades.

Yup. It really is that simple.
Especially considering that what we endured just before Krakoa was miserable. The remaining X-Men lived in the basement of a bar and everyone was dying. And the rest were stuck in AoX, which was not my cup of tea. Krakoa is fresh air.

[Gripstir]

“Prioritizing their own” is literally the thought process of every racist. Yes oppressed people can become fascists. The same way many abused kids grow up to abuse their kids. Or people who were victims of pedophiles sometimes grow up to become pedophiles due to the abuse.

The line between when you were a victim and when you become the danger can sometimes be harder to spot because it’s so gradual and there are a lot of opportunities to change the outcome.

“Prioritizing your own” is a statement of nationalists. The first generation who lives on the new Krakoa may be victims but the second generation. And the generation after that learn about Krakoa being a haven for all mutants and internalize that narrative of love of Krakoa. They grow into an us or them mentality and they become the bad guys. And it starts because the first generation on the nation claim it to be a beacon of hope and love for all mutant kind

This is what’s frustrating about being a comic book fan in modern era. People forget comics are written by biased people, not experts. So getting comics as your confirmation bias does nothing to confirm a way of thinking is right, it just confirms it with a source that creates the narrative they want to create for themselves. It’s fiction. It’s why I hate how comic book readers got too educated on the metaphor of mutants.

And I will leave you guys with this thought. The majority of you who think you are being X-men by posting comics like this don’t realize you are showing how you are more on Magneto’s side who the X-men routinely police against. And not the X-men’s side. If anything you could call the X-men the mutant police themselves. Majority of their stories is fighting off the extremist mutants as well as the human government.

So discuss that. The X-men are literally cops.

[Stormultt Divine]

Lmao you thought you ate that??

At the end of the day ...

theyre not creating war machines to take humans out. They're not putting humans in low income cities and discriminating against humans because of the way they look. Theyre not putting humans in concentration camps or interfering with their affairs. Theyre not taking human children away from their families.

Mutants dont have an extensive history of oppression and SLAUGHTER against humans so NO..you cannot compare them building their own nation and having a few bad seeds in it to what humans have done to them.

They have however SHARED their medicines with human nations. Period point-blank.

[Rift]

The biggest difference between racists and the X-Men is that the X-Men go out of their way to protect human lives, and punish their own who would take them. Them prioritizing their own is out of necessity, and even though they have every reason not to care about humans, they made one of the cornerstones of their law "human lives are precious and taking them is one of the worst things you could possibly do."

[Gripstir]

The biggest difference between racists and the X-Men is that the X-Men go out of their way to protect human lives, and punish their own who would take them. Them prioritizing their own is out of necessity, and even though they have every reason not to care about humans, they made one of the cornerstones of their law "human lives are precious and taking them is one of the worst things you could possibly do."

Well that’s because the X-men titles depict the “racists” as completely evil humans who are over the top evil and the X-men are the saviors against hate. In the comic books they depict human hatred as cartoonish. To the point where bigotry doesn’t even make sense. Obviously a big focus in my head that is leading to my thoughts is reading Excalibur. And how otherworld just has to hate mutants because a writer needs it for the story. Does that racism make sense? No it doesn’t but it’s a choice they can make to fit the narrative they want to tell.

My main issue is people taking comic books too seriously. These aren’t textbooks by experts. Looking for comics as if it was a bible leads to very shallow understating of racism and the avenues that create them.

Don’t forget Magneto tried to create Genosha. This is the same thing. Everyone needs to understand isolation leads to ethnocentrism no matter your intentions. The reason the X-men are wrong is they gave up on believing in the good in humanity. They view humanity as evil. And that morality will be how Krakoa is built. And that morality will go through generations until people believe “prioritizing your own” is the correct way to live

[Stormultt Divine]

Racism doesn't make sense but it exists so???
One could say the same thing about our reality. Racism EXISTS!...and there are consequences to the results and ideologies of racism. People get tired of being looked at as less than.


Like yall are literally throwing everything at the wall to make the mutants the bad guys and it wont work.

An OPPRESSED group fleeing a world that does NOT prioritize them and creating a place of their own is inevitable, not fascist like wtf lol.

The reason the X-men are wrong is they gave up on believing in the good in humanity. They view humanity as evil. And that morality will be how Krakoa is built. And that morality will go through generations until people believe “prioritizing your own” is the correct way to live

This is like blaming minority groups who no longer want to sit up under misery and oppression like...do yall understand what youre typing? We can AGREE TO DISAGREE, definitely.

Its selfish to tell somebody to just "keep believing in the good in humanity!" When humanity is hunting and killing their friends and family, denying them rights and so on and so forth. Its just not clicking. The mutants created a place for there to BE generation after generation without TRAUMATIZED and tainted experiences polluting their bloodlines.

They didnt group together to plan humanity's destruction, they did it for preservation and OUT of it all humanity gained medicines that help them....doesnt sound like a people who gave up on humanity. It sound like a people who learned that they DO need to put their needs FIRST in order to survive. Thats not racist....thats simple survival instinct and common sense.

[Zelena]

And I will leave you guys with this thought. The majority of you who think you are being X-men by posting comics like this don’t realize you are showing how you are more on Magneto’s side who the X-men routinely police against. And not the X-men’s side. If anything you could call the X-men the mutant police themselves. Majority of their stories is fighting off the extremist mutants as well as the human government.

Actually, along the years, it was Magneto who declared himself the “the Champion of Mutants”, a title that fueled his ego… The X-men fought for values, an ideal…It is puzzling to me that so many seem to have forgotten that.

Of course, the X-men have been on the mutants’ side along for these years, but because they were on the side of people who suffered injustice, not because they had a gene in common. They could have seen themselves in these mutants’ fate but also in the life in some humans they met. X-men stories encompassed humanity, mutants and non-mutants… It was the reason why so many people liked X-men stories…

[Lucyinthesky]

Agreed with Stormultt Divine

I see it this way when it comes to the X-men, the X-men are fundamentally heros right? then they will help their fellow mutants in crisis and try to give them a home, why? because they are heros and they still will protect and defend a world that hates and fears them why? because they are heros. The heros of the story who care about correcting injustice, right?, this is why the X-men title focuses on them being heros for humanity again, while the other titles explore Krakoa, a country that´s not perfect by any means, because it´s composed of people and people are not perfect. The X-men are flawed as well but they still strive to be heros, while Krakoa is composed of a multitude of people with their own priorities, context and understanding of the world. I think of it as something similar to T´Challa and Wakanda.

Now that said, I would love if the basis for Fallen Angels title was brought back again for a new title, the idea that some mutants would feel at ease on Krakoa but still feel a personal compromise to make the whole world better and do their part was great and hopefully it will be brought back again. Same with the idea of exploring Krakoa´s actual multicultural population, they come from all over the world, it would make sense for them to bring their traditions and povs with them as well imo.

[Devaishwarya]

Racism doesn't make sense but it exists so???
One could say the same thing about our reality. Racism EXISTS!...and there are consequences to the results and ideologies of racism. People get tired of being looked at as less than.


Like yall are literally throwing everything at the wall to make the mutants the bad guys and it wont work.

An OPPRESSED group fleeing a world that does NOT prioritize them and creating a place of their own is inevitable, not fascist like wtf lol.




This is like blaming minority groups who no longer want to sit up under misery and oppression like...do yall understand what youre typing? We can AGREE TO DISAGREE, definitely.

Its selfish to tell somebody to just "keep believing in the good in humanity!" When humanity is hunting and killing their friends and family, denying them rights and so on and so forth. Its just not clicking. The mutants created a place for there to BE generation after generation without TRAUMATIZED and tainted experiences polluting their bloodlines.

They didnt group together to plan humanity's destruction, they did it for preservation and OUT of it all humanity gained medicines that help them....doesnt sound like a people who gave up on humanity. It sound like a people who learned that they DO need to put their needs FIRST in order to survive. Thats not racist....thats simple survival instinct and common sense.

...and they still do believe in humanity and are out there actively saving human lives from Alien threats, and helping out the needy and disenfranchised (Duggan's X-Men)

[davetvs]

AND taking it a step further by throwing humans' hypocrisy and history of discrimination in their faces, hence the X-Men's Treehouse being named after Seneca Village. I love it. As an actual doubly oppressed minority who's always felt connected to the X-Men because of the mutant metaphor vs. enjoying the franchise in spite of it like a lot of people on these boards seem to, I'm in love with the fact that in the Krakoan era the mutants have finally been allowed to win a bit.

[Kingdom X]

Well that’s because the X-men titles depict the “racists” as completely evil humans who are over the top evil and the X-men are the saviors against hate. In the comic books they depict human hatred as cartoonish. To the point where bigotry doesn’t even make sense. Obviously a big focus in my head that is leading to my thoughts is reading Excalibur. And how otherworld just has to hate mutants because a writer needs it for the story. Does that racism make sense? No it doesn’t but it’s a choice they can make to fit the narrative they want to tell.

My main issue is people taking comic books too seriously. These aren’t textbooks by experts. Looking for comics as if it was a bible leads to very shallow understating of racism and the avenues that create them.

Don’t forget Magneto tried to create Genosha. This is the same thing. Everyone needs to understand isolation leads to ethnocentrism no matter your intentions. The reason the X-men are wrong is they gave up on believing in the good in humanity. They view humanity as evil. And that morality will be how Krakoa is built. And that morality will go through generations until people believe “prioritizing your own” is the correct way to live

Maybe that's true for Charles who had his dreams intentionally crushed by Moira, but otherwise this is a big exaggeration. If all mutants thought that humans were evil they wouldn't be handing out food and spending all their time saving humans in Duggan's X-Men series. The Marauders wouldn't have helped the locals of Madripoor. Logan wouldn't have befriended that FBI agent and personally sped up the process for getting his daughter life-saving drugs. Do I need to continue?

I will say that this thread is filled with a lot of generalization on both sides. There are legitimate criticisms of Krakoa that people have brought up that shouldn't be invalidated. At the same there are some fans who were mad the minute that Krakoa popped up because now the mutants were celebrating themselves and not running from extinction for the first time in years.

[Outburstz]

Maybe that's true for Charles who had his dreams intentionally crushed by Moira, but otherwise this is a big exaggeration. If all mutants thought that humans were evil they wouldn't be handing out food and spending all their time saving humans in Duggan's X-Men series. The Marauders wouldn't have helped the locals of Madripoor. Logan wouldn't have befriended that FBI agent and got personally sped up the process for getting his daughter life-saving drugs. Do I need to continue?

I will say that this thread is filled with a lot of generalization on both sides. There are legitimate criticisms of Krakoa that people have brought up that shouldn't be invalidated. At the same there are some fans who were mad the minute that Krakoa popped up because now the mutants were celebrating themselves and not running from extinction for the first time in years.

Most of their complaints have been explained they just don't like the answer.

Sinister on the council- It's been explained to death why they need him. Protocol DNA

Crucible- Having mutants really choose between if they want to truly live their life as a mutant with everything that comes with it. If not it's better to stay as a human were you won't have to face the higher risk of death that comes with being a mutant. Brutal yes but it's nothing compared to what they will face as mutants going forward

They want to create an ethnostate they are racist - While multiple humans are living on the island. It's just that being a mutant gives you citizenship which every nation has their own rules for citizenship.

They are trying to kill off humans- The first law of Krakoa is kill no humans. Heck humans have more rights than alien's do according to Krakoa.

They are colonizers now - No one was living on Mars and even if they were they didn't have control of the planet. They haven't taken over humans lands or nations even those that are clearly anti mutant and would be justify in invading.

But Otherworld.. - I'll make this simple. Apoc makes a gate in Avalon (we know in X of Swords why he wants to go there now) Avalon declared war on Saturyne lead by Morgan in Arthurs absence. Avalon calls Captain Britain to help hunt down mutants because of the gate that had opened that no one can get through. Morgan then controls Brain and tries to kill Besty just because of that gate.

They take her down and control Avalon. Simply putting up a gate is not an act of war. Was it nice no but it wasn't war yet. Everything Arrako and Amenth did had nothing to do with Krakoa but despite that they go to war with Arrako win and save Otherworld from Amenth with Saturyn help. Saturyn oversees all of Otherworld and due to her help side with her again when Merylin comes back declaring war on Saturyn with Arthur in toe.

[scourge]

Most of their complaints have been explained they just don't like the answer.

Except they haven't been explained, they've had excuses made for them. Not going to get into all of them but...

Like Sinister for instance. Sure they needed his data...but they still kept him around after they got it. There's literally no reason for that.

And 'Kill no humans'...unless Krakoa and the Marauders seem to not care about the murder. Or when X-force rolls around.

And I'm sorry but that's BS about the Crucible with Krakoa how its presented. The Crucible was a bad idea and never should have been allowed on page like that.

This isn't even getting into other criticisms that fans have.

[Lucyinthesky]

Maybe that's true for Charles who had his dreams intentionally crushed by Moira, but otherwise this is a big exaggeration. If all mutants thought that humans were evil they wouldn't be handing out food and spending all their time saving humans in Duggan's X-Men series. The Marauders wouldn't have helped the locals of Madripoor. Logan wouldn't have befriended that FBI agent and got personally sped up the process for getting his daughter life-saving drugs. Do I need to continue?

I will say that this thread is filled with a lot of generalization on both sides. There are legitimate criticisms of Krakoa that people have brought up that shouldn't be invalidated. At the same there are some fans who were mad the minute that Krakoa popped up because now the mutants were celebrating themselves and not running from extinction for the first time in years.

Exactly, I didn´t like the idea of crucible and I dislike the fact Sinister is part of the Council but those two are things that can be changed and are part of the whole narrative of Krakoa in the diffulty in getting to a state of true unity, still this doesn´t mean mutants should not have a place to call home or the X-men demonized for creating a place for mutants, especially since they have not abandoned their calling of being heros for the world.

[Outburstz]

Except they haven't been explained, they've had excuses made for them. Not going to get into all of them but...

Like Sinister for instance. Sure they needed his data...but they still kept him around after they got it. There's literally no reason for that.

Yes I'm sure Sinister will not have an issue with that and just let them have it. Also people keep forgetting this is a clone Sinister that was created with mutant DNA no different then other clones

And 'Kill no humans'...unless Krakoa and the Marauders seem to not care about the murder. Or when X-force rolls around.

Is there no difference between killing off humans and killing anti mutant hate groups trying to kill them?

And I'm sorry but that's BS about the Crucible with Krakoa how its presented. The Crucible was a bad idea and never should have been allowed on page like that.

Agree to disagree it was a very powerful metaphor for the life of a mutant and that despite that risk they still wish to be mutants again because of how much it matters do them.