Krakoa's importance expounded on and explained PERFECTLY.

[Omega Alpha]

Most of their complaints have been explained they just don't like the answer.

Sinister on the council- It's been explained to death why they need him. Protocol DNA

Crucible- Having mutants really choose between if they want to truly live their life as a mutant with everything that comes with it. If not it's better to stay as a human were you won't have to face the higher risk of death that comes with being a mutant. Brutal yes but it's nothing compared to what they will face as mutants going forward

They want to create an ethnostate they are racist - While multiple humans are living on the island. It's just that being a mutant gives you citizenship which every nation has their own rules for citizenship.

They are trying to kill off humans- The first law of Krakoa is kill no humans. Heck humans have more rights than alien's do according to Krakoa.

They are colonizers now - No one was living on Mars and even if they were they didn't have control of the planet. They haven't taken over humans lands or nations even those that are clearly anti mutant and would be justify in invading.

But Otherworld.. - I'll make this simple. Apoc makes a gate in Avalon (we know in X of Swords why he wants to go there now) Avalon declared war on Saturyne lead by Morgan in Arthurs absence. Avalon calls Captain Britain to help hunt down mutants because of the gate that had opened that no one can get through. Morgan then controls Brain and tries to kill Besty just because of that gate.

They take her down and control Avalon. Simply putting up a gate is not an act of war. Was it nice no but it wasn't war yet. Everything Arrako and Amenth did had nothing to do with Krakoa but despite that they go to war with Arrako win and save Otherworld from Amenth with Saturyn help. Saturyn oversees all of Otherworld and due to her help side with her again when Merylin comes back declaring war on Saturyn with Arthur in toe.

All of this is true, and very easy to see from the stories if you're not looking fo reasons to complain. Also, keep in mind that the Crucible was supposed to be disturbing and controversial.

[RamaBird]

Most of their complaints have been explained they just don't like the answer.

Sinister on the council- It's been explained to death why they need him. Protocol DNA

Crucible- Having mutants really choose between if they want to truly live their life as a mutant with everything that comes with it. If not it's better to stay as a human were you won't have to face the higher risk of death that comes with being a mutant. Brutal yes but it's nothing compared to what they will face as mutants going forward

They want to create an ethnostate they are racist - While multiple humans are living on the island. It's just that being a mutant gives you citizenship which every nation has their own rules for citizenship.

They are trying to kill off humans- The first law of Krakoa is kill no humans. Heck humans have more rights than alien's do according to Krakoa.

They are colonizers now - No one was living on Mars and even if they were they didn't have control of the planet. They haven't taken over humans lands or nations even those that are clearly anti mutant and would be justify in invading.

But Otherworld.. - I'll make this simple. Apoc makes a gate in Avalon (we know in X of Swords why he wants to go there now) Avalon declared war on Saturyne lead by Morgan in Arthurs absence. Avalon calls Captain Britain to help hunt down mutants because of the gate that had opened that no one can get through. Morgan then controls Brain and tries to kill Besty just because of that gate.

They take her down and control Avalon. Simply putting up a gate is not an act of war. Was it nice no but it wasn't war yet. Everything Arrako and Amenth did had nothing to do with Krakoa but despite that they go to war with Arrako win and save Otherworld from Amenth with Saturyn help. Saturyn oversees all of Otherworld and due to her help side with her again when Merylin comes back declaring war on Saturyn with Arthur in toe.

I agree with most of these but do have a different view on a few...

Sinister. These are omega mutants that can create an atmosphere on Mars. They don't need Sinister to get DNA. Sinister betrays them every single time yet give him so much access to power. I do think this era has failed at properly redeeming evil mutants, instead we are just supposed to accept that nothing they did prior to Krakoa matters. Writers also love using him and I guess making him campy makes him less of a villain in their minds? Anyway, I think Sinister should always be a villain and he shouldn't be used so much. He should be working from behind the scenes. He is slime. That's what made him so scary. Villains like Sinister, Selene, Casandra Nova, shouldn't suddenly be redeemed. Sure low level villains like the Hellions are better off for being at Krakoa though but not the high-level genocidal ones. I miss the scary classic villains.

They are colonizers now. They are though. You actually think that Mars didn't have inhabitants? In a universe that has new secret races be revealed every other event? I actually think this could be a good future storyline where a secret race of Mars heroes/villains arise. You also said even if they are there they don't matter because they don't "control" the planet? Are you Christopher Columbus or something?

[JB]

All of this is true, and very easy to see from the stories if you're not looking fo reasons to complain. Also, keep in mind that the Crucible was supposed to be disturbing and controversial.

Yup. Being a fan of Krakoa doesn't mean you agree with every bit of it. The crucible made me uncomfortable and that was the point.

[Lucyinthesky]

I agree with most of these but do have a different view on a few...

Sinister. These are omega mutants that can create an atmosphere on Mars. They don't need Sinister to get DNA. Sinister betrays them every single time yet give him so much access to power. I do think this era has failed at properly redeeming evil mutants, instead we are just supposed to accept that nothing they did prior to Krakoa matters. Writers also love using him and I guess making him campy makes him less of a villain in their minds? Anyway, I think Sinister should always be a villain and he shouldn't be used so much. He should be working from behind the scenes. He is slime. That's what made him so scary. Villains like Sinister, Selene, Casandra Nova, shouldn't suddenly be redeemed. Sure low level villains like the Hellions are better off for being at Krakoa though but not the high-level genocidal ones. I miss the scary classic villains.

They are colonizers now. They are though. You actually think that Mars didn't have inhabitants? In a universe that has new secret races be revealed every other event? I actually think this could be a good future storyline where a secret race of Mars heroes/villains arise. You also said even if they are there they don't matter because they don't "control" the planet? Are you Christopher Columbus or something?

Mars definitely was not populated, to say otherwise is just reaching in an olimpic way for the sake of keeping the X-men as "colonizers" argument. I honestly thought it was a good way to stave off war between Arrako mutants, who only have known war for centuries and the other countries of Earth. I guess protecting the world from War like Omega level mutants while at the same time giving them a place to live and call home is just villanous and evil now.

[Spiderfan001]

Except they haven't been explained, they've had excuses made for them. Not going to get into all of them but...

Like Sinister for instance. Sure they needed his data...but they still kept him around after they got it. There's literally no reason for that.

And 'Kill no humans'...unless Krakoa and the Marauders seem to not care about the murder. Or when X-force rolls around.

And I'm sorry but that's BS about the Crucible with Krakoa how its presented. The Crucible was a bad idea and never should have been allowed on page like that.

This isn't even getting into other criticisms that fans have.

All thus, X-men and council itself would try to get rid of sinister ASAP because he's a ticking time bomb.Once they got what they needed from him he should have been done away w/ or atleast show the other X-men/mutants we follow try their best to

Yeah Kill no humans law has been a bit flimsy

Love how people say Crucible is okay "because it's supposed to be disturbing".Yeah the mutants hate groups like ones that actually believe they are demons are also supposed to be disturbing.Doesn't make them right

[Kingdom X]

All thus, X-men and council itself would try to get rid of sinister ASAP because he's a ticking time bomb.Once they got what they needed from him he should have been done away w/ or atleast show the other X-men/mutants we follow try their best to

Yeah Kill no humans law has been a bit flimsy

Love how people say Crucible is okay "because it's supposed to be disturbing".Yeah the mutants hate groups like ones that actually believe they are demons are also supposed to be disturbing.Doesn't make them right

I don't think many (again not trying to speak for everyone) posters are saying that the Crucible is right, but what are you gonna do after you acknowledge that it's uncomfortable/ disturbing? I'm sure a lot of people just don't think it's worth it to complain about it every month or they just focus on the aspects of the books that they do enjoy. There's also the fact that the books started directly tackling the nature of the Crucible (in Way of X and now in Trial of Magneto), so there's not much else to add to that conversation when the books themselves have started criticizing it IMO.

There's also people who enjoy the Crucible as a fictional concept of culture/ nation building but wouldn't endorse it in actuality. I think it's less so an issue of right vs. wrong, but instead is this an interesting concept or not.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Yup. Being a fan of Krakoa doesn't mean you agree with every bit of it. The crucible made me uncomfortable and that was the point.

And many people in this thread are saying “I like Krakoa, but…” (mostly in regard to putting VILLAINS on a ruling council that is voted on in an insular fashion, and not really representative of mutants as a whole) and being called bigoted.

[Spiderfan001]

I don't think many (again not trying to speak for everyone) posters are saying that the Crucible is right, but what are you gonna do after you acknowledge that it's uncomfortable/ disturbing? I'm sure a lot of people just don't think it's worth it to complain about it every month or they just focus on the aspects of the books that they do enjoy. There's also the fact that the books started directly tackling the nature of the Crucible (in Way of X and now in Trial of Magneto), so there's not much else to add to that conversation when the books themselves have started criticizing it IMO.

There's also people who enjoy the Crucible as a fictional concept of culture/ nation building but wouldn't endorse it in actuality. I think it's less so an issue of right vs. wrong, but instead is this an interesting concept or not.

Yet anyone pointing out flaws in Krakoa and/or against it being long term are being called a bigot and someone against minorities standing up for themselves when mutants are fictional as well.Keep the same energy for both cases(not you, I mean people accusing others of being bigoted on here for not agreeing w/ Krakoa)

As for what to do after, I 100% agree bringing it up randomly makes little sense but this is a thread of people justifying it or saying it's ok because it's meant to be bad.It's disturbing and that's what it's meant to be, it's meant to show how aspects of Krakoa may be going to far.That there are concepts being accepted as the norm which us as readers are freaked out by and a lot of the X-men we knew would be too.

And many people in this thread are saying “I like Krakoa, but…” (mostly in regard to putting VILLAINS on a ruling council that is voted on in an insular fashion, and not really representative of mutants as a whole) and being called bigoted.

This, stated multiple times I think the concept of Krakoa is a good one but it's the way they go about it that makes me feel it won't/shouldn't last decades in concept and being called bigoted.

[Gripstir]

Racism doesn't make sense but it exists so???
One could say the same thing about our reality. Racism EXISTS!...and there are consequences to the results and ideologies of racism. People get tired of being looked at as less than..l

So there’s a lot of interesting points you made. But just so I don’t get too debatey I just want to say 3 points really quick bullet point style and I hope they explain the ideas well enough

1. Racism actually does make sense if you understand the psychology behind it. The “racism doesn’t make sense” stuff is frustrating to hear because that is what comic books teach people about understanding bigotry, that there is just evil and uncompromising hatred.
2. America was founded based on religious and moral persecution, would you say America is incapable of fascism or racism because of its original intentions?
3. I think comparing a first generation nation and believing that they can’t turn more racist in the coming generations is a shallow understanding of ethnocentrism. It grows through conflict, Krakoa has not been around long enough to compare to racism but everything about Krakoa is a metaphor for nationalism. Where Jonathan Hickman was going to say it’s toxic to isolate yourself from each other. He was overruled by the other writers and he left as the main writer so they could continue on Krakoa

[Stormultt Divine]

Mutants finally having a place to call home and having pride and respect for that place is quite different.

And no one said Krakoa was perfect, its not supposed to be. If it were complete paradise then it'd have my side eye.

BUT back to the OP, i really wanna see black and other poc writers tackle the journey of mutants in other countries coming to Krakoa, with Bishop of course as leading character, maybe other mutants too like Bedlam.

[Lucyinthesky]

So you mean to tell that just because Krakoa is not a perfect place in which everybody behaves correctly acording to a group of fans and it must also do so for generations, it deserves to be undone and the people living there deserve to be persecuted again because that´s the more heroic, virtous path? Sorry but I don´t agree, people don´t need to suffer unnecesarily and they can´t help the world if they are not in a position to have the chance to do so. Some will choose right, others will choose wrong but that´s how humanity is both mutants and humans are part of humanity.Just like humans don´t need to go out of their way to accomodate mutants needs, the opposite is quite true, mutants don´t need to put themselves on fire to accomodate human needs and the X-men can and will be heros to both groups. It´s not easy but it can be done. I personally would prefer if they saw themselves as equals and part of the same group but baby steps I guess.

[Gripstir]

Maybe that's true for Charles who had his dreams intentionally crushed by Moira, but otherwise this is a big exaggeration. If all mutants thought that humans were evil they wouldn't be handing out food and spending all their time saving humans in Duggan's X-Men series. The Marauders wouldn't have helped the locals of Madripoor. Logan wouldn't have befriended that FBI agent and personally sped up the process for getting his daughter life-saving drugs. Do I need to continue?

I will say that this thread is filled with a lot of generalization on both sides. There are legitimate criticisms of Krakoa that people have brought up that shouldn't be invalidated. At the same there are some fans who were mad the minute that Krakoa popped up because now the mutants were celebrating themselves and not running from extinction for the first time in years.

Well even looking at the original comic, we see cops who help neighborhoods that aren’t part of their in group. Yet those cops are seen exploiting those groups. Krakoa now has enough power that they can exploit humanity if they choose. Just like cops they can grow in privilege throughout the generations. It’s easy to be good to out groups when you are in need of something (ie needing allies for trade or defense) but doesn’t mean it won’t create an us vs them mentality. One confirmation bias we do is we often excuse people when we see their victimhood and demonize them when we don’t. Which is exactly why comics or movies do not depict racism with any humanity. You are meant to see them as nothing but a hate machine. When you think of racists in comics you think of those torch mobs or creating the sentinels to wipe out mutants. When comics fans think of racism they think of the depictions of it in fiction. And again create a shallow understanding of the issues that is simply “racist bad” one of my favorite shows was West Wing and I think this clip is a great starting point when people just think “racism bad”. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21eaubatLGc

Acknowledging they have reasons for being the way they are is not the same as agreeing with those reasons

[Stormultt Divine]

So you mean to tell that just because Krakoa is not a perfect place in which everybody behaves correctly acording to a group of fans and it must also do so for generations, it deserves to be undone and the people living there deserve to be persecuted again because that´s the more heroic, virtous path? Sorry but I don´t agree, people don´t need to suffer unnecesarily and they can´t help the world if they are not in a position to have the chance to do so. Some will choose right, others will choose wrong but that´s how humanity is both mutants and humans are part of humanity.

ALSO Krakoa is really young as a nation, its unrealistic that it would be paradise. People really just want the X-men to go back to the mansion and 'fight for everyone!' While they run around again looking for any crumb of validation from humans...and that's bogus.

[Gripstir]

And many people in this thread are saying “I like Krakoa, but…” (mostly in regard to putting VILLAINS on a ruling council that is voted on in an insular fashion, and not really representative of mutants as a whole) and being called bigoted.

I still feel they wasted the opportunity to showcase the villains who were put on the council to improve. I have seen many people be taken from a bad situation, put in a better position and succeed. The lack of showing the council members improving from before is something I think is very short sighted on Johnathan Hickman and the other writer’s part

[Gripstir]

Mutants finally having a place to call home and having pride and respect for that place is quite different.

And no one said Krakoa was perfect, its not supposed to be. If it were complete paradise then it'd have my side eye.

BUT back to the OP, i really wanna see black and other poc writers tackle the journey of mutants in other countries coming to Krakoa, with Bishop of course as leading character, maybe other mutants too like Bedlam.

Holding pride within an ingroup simply leads to ethnocentrism, nepotism and eventually full blown “us vs them”

I do agree having more journeys of people into Krakoa could be cool to see the established land through a first time viewers eyes