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  1. #1156
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    So the only aspect of a comic book that you can attach emotions to is if this villain of the week is going to kill the character?

    Mutants have experienced more death than any other group. Them being able to conquer it is a huge leap forward because for most of their time they were constantly fighting it or near death so we can finally see what they are like when they are not constantly at death's door.
    Riiight... I don't think my lil nerd heart can take the flutterings and palpitations it suffered in the past when my younger self would spot an X-Cover seemingly showcasing a characters death
    GrindrStone(D)

  2. #1157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    So the only aspect of a comic book that you can attach emotions to is if this villain of the week is going to kill the character?

    Mutants have experienced more death than any other group. Them being able to conquer it is a huge leap forward because for most of their time they were constantly fighting it or near death so we can finally see what they are like when they are not constantly at death's door.
    And the answer is...no stakes because the authors don't want to explore anything so it's just "Meh, yeah I got decapitated last week. I'm back. Probably going to happen again tomorrow. They have to keep on giving Quire a bigger dick each time just so he can get out of bed at this point, he's so tired of having to wait in line. Heard even Logan is demanding a bigger beer fund just to be bothered. Some of the younger kids are competing for which is the most gruesome death they can get. Beast is just letting random flatscans kill him and then appearing at their house at night to creep them out. It's weird"

    Seriously, we went over pretty much anything the authors could explore with this new status quo with death. Instead it's just a mechanized resurrection device. Meh.

  3. #1158
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    So the only aspect of a comic book that you can attach emotions to is if this villain of the week is going to kill the character?

    Mutants have experienced more death than any other group. Them being able to conquer it is a huge leap forward because for most of their time they were constantly fighting it or near death so we can finally see what they are like when they are not constantly at death's door.
    No, but when death is basically just treated as a weekly running gag as opposed to something that with actual stakes, it kinda renders any story dealing with dangers into nothing more than fluff. Compare the feeling of when Xavier sent that team up to Orchis’ base back in House of X and the shock at how one by one, they were knocked off leading to the end of the issue with Xavier proclaiming ‘No more.’ to the likes of X-Force where their way of dealing with Beast being given a stroke is to snap his neck since they can just bring him back right away or Pixie having someone shotgun her head off because it’s akin to losing your virginity. A story can have emotional resonance without death but the problem is when you take any emotional resonance out of death itself.

    And regardless of any claims that mutants deserve and endless reset button, this is a comic book, not the real world. Just because Hickman created a method that allows them to bring back characters who have died over the years and thus allow for them to be used again doesn’t mean that the writers should treat it like some kind of toy as, it gets to the point of eye rolling. With the resurrection protocols, things have literally become like a child with an infinite life cheat code turned on where, rather than playing the game in any quality way to ensure their longevity, they instead just throw care to the wind because ‘Why not? It’s not like I can ever get a game over?’. It comes down to, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    And the answer is...no stakes because the authors don't want to explore anything so it's just "Meh, yeah I got decapitated last week. I'm back. Probably going to happen again tomorrow. They have to keep on giving Quire a bigger dick each time just so he can get out of bed at this point, he's so tired of having to wait in line. Heard even Logan is demanding a bigger beer fund just to be bothered. Some of the younger kids are competing for which is the most gruesome death they can get. Beast is just letting random flatscans kill him and then appearing at their house at night to creep them out. It's weird"

    Seriously, we went over pretty much anything the authors could explore with this new status quo with death. Instead it's just a mechanized resurrection device. Meh.
    QFT. This guy gets it.
    Last edited by Kurolegacy; 06-25-2022 at 08:04 PM.

  4. #1159
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    And the answer is...no stakes because the authors don't want to explore anything so it's just "Meh, yeah I got decapitated last week. I'm back. Probably going to happen again tomorrow. They have to keep on giving Quire a bigger dick each time just so he can get out of bed at this point, he's so tired of having to wait in line. Heard even Logan is demanding a bigger beer fund just to be bothered. Some of the younger kids are competing for which is the most gruesome death they can get. Beast is just letting random flatscans kill him and then appearing at their house at night to creep them out. It's weird"

    Seriously, we went over pretty much anything the authors could explore with this new status quo with death. Instead it's just a mechanized resurrection device. Meh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    No, but when death is basically just treated as a weekly running gag as opposed to something that with actual stakes, it kinda renders any story dealing with dangers into nothing more than fluff. Compare the feeling of when Xavier sent that team up to Orchis’ base back in House of X and the shock at how one by one, they were knocked off leading to the end of the issue with Xavier proclaiming ‘No more.’ to the likes of X-Force where their way of dealing with Beast being given a stroke is to snap his neck since they can just bring him back right away or Pixie having someone shotgun her head off because it’s akin to losing your virginity. A story can have emotional resonance without death but the problem is when you take any emotional resonance out of death itself.

    And regardless of any claims that mutants deserve and endless reset button, this is a comic book, not the real world. Just because Hickman created a method that allows them to bring back characters who have died over the years and thus allow for them to be used again doesn’t mean that the writers should treat it like some kind of toy as, it gets to the point of eye rolling. With the resurrection protocols, things have literally become like a child with an infinite life cheat code turned on where, rather than playing the game in any quality way to ensure their longevity, they instead just throw care to the wind because ‘Why not? It’s not like I can ever get a game over?’. It comes down to, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.


    QFT. This guy gets it.
    It's not the writers fault if you guys are only focusing on the lack of death and ignoring everything else. If you want your "death stakes" just read any X-men comic over the last 2 decades. There's plenty of it

    Interpersonal connections nope, dealing with long term trauma nope, mutant history and secrets nope , galactic politics nope, mutant powers evolving nope, all that means nothing because you are mad that dumb kids are doing dumb things because they know they can't die -_-

  5. #1160
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    It's not the writers fault if you guys are only focusing on the lack of death and ignoring everything else. If you want your "death stakes" just read any X-men comic over the last 2 decades. There's plenty of it

    Interpersonal connections nope, dealing with long term trauma nope, mutant history and secrets nope , galactic politics nope, mutant powers evolving nope, all that means nothing because you are mad that dumb kids are doing dumb things because they know they can't die -_-
    Lack of death? Don't you mean more death? Like they're dying more than they ever did without the resurrections because now writers can get away with killing them when the X-Men seemed more prone to surviving before the Resurrection Protocols?

    Disliking an aspect of the status quo or its execution isn't negating everything else going on in the line.

  6. #1161
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    What goddamn long term trauma? The most we’ve gotten is Domino wanting to remember her deaths which got dropped pretty quick, and Quentin squire’s increasing deranged actions over his inferiority complex. Two characters does not equal addressing this!

    For god’s sake the writers literally invented a whole new way of dying that actually has consequences to try and inject some stakes back into characters risking their lives.

    We’ve outlined our issue with this and not only do you refuse to address them, you keep on insulting us that we are “ignoring everything else”. Then again, to be frank I’m not surprised because you seem to take every possible critique and critiscism of the Krakoa era as a personal insult no matter what it is or who it’s from.

  7. #1162
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    What goddamn long term trauma? The most we’ve gotten is Domino wanting to remember her deaths which got dropped pretty quick, and Quentin squire’s increasing deranged actions over his inferiority complex. Two characters does not equal addressing this!

    For god’s sake the writers literally invented a whole new way of dying that actually has consequences to try and inject some stakes back into characters risking their lives.

    We’ve outlined our issue with this and not only do you refuse to address them, you keep on insulting us that we are “ignoring everything else”. Then again, to be frank I’m not surprised because you seem to take every possible critique and critiscism of the Krakoa era as a personal insult no matter what it is or who it’s from.
    Refused to address them. Maybe your the one that isn't reading.

    I clearly stated that there are more ways then just death to raise stakes in comics and you focusing on death when in comic books death is already meaningless before the resurrection protocol is laughable.

    As for trauma I guess maybe you didn't read New mutants Wolfbane, Karma, and now Magik and Maddie are all dealing with long term trauma which was what I was referencing.


    I don't defend every aspect of Krakoa but I'm not going to apologize as I do believe that the Krakoa era has been my favorite X-men era for mutants

  8. #1163
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    Refused to address them. Maybe your the one that isn't reading.

    I clearly stated that there are more ways then just death to raise stakes in comics and you focusing on death when in comic books death is already meaningless before the resurrection protocol is laughable.

    As for trauma I guess maybe you didn't read New mutants Wolfbane, Karma, and now Magik and Maddie are all dealing with long term trauma which was what I was referencing.


    I don't defend every aspect of Krakoa but I'm not going to apologize as I do believe that the Krakoa era has been my favorite X-men era for mutants
    Death isn't the only way to raise stakes but I also don't think people really desire to read about characters who can die so much and get away with it (especially if it makes them come off as less capable), but that's just me.

  9. #1164
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier;[URL="tel:6096999"
    6096999[/URL]]Death isn't the only way to raise stakes but I also don't think people really desire to read about characters who can die so much and get away with it (especially if it makes them come off as less capable), but that's just me.
    why not? People still read Capt America, Thor, Batman etc etc
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  10. #1165
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    If the only punch a story can throw is "oh a character dies 4evarrrrrr" it's not fit to print in the first place.

  11. #1166
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    Alright, let’s reset this because Outburstz decided to skip over a lot of original points to focus entirely on “You just want character deaths because you can’t imagine anything else as stakes!”

    Complaint 1: They haven’t utilized any of the unique aspects of resurrection process to let the character have any apprehension about death. Krakoans seemingly have no apprehension if they were the original person, if they are a straight copy, original souls, etc. I know out of universe the soul question got answered (In a way that still probably applies the fact that the Krakoan clones are probably different characters than the originals who died). No one in Krakoa seems to really consider the implications of the system in any real depth, except X-force which has had two characters go at it in different ways. For that reason alone while I don’t like X-force I will always say that Percy was at least willing to tackle these issues. I think it’s also the only book to have had multiple clones of the same X-men still be alive although since most have been used as weapons we haven’t yet had the existential nightmare of three different Quentin Quires running around Krakoa equally convinced they are the actual real Quentin Quire.

    Complaint 2: The writers are just going out of their way to bring back death anyway. This is more an Excalibur/Swords of X complaint but it took not much time at all for writers to start carving out exceptions to the resurrection protocols so they could still threaten to permanently delete characters. In this case Otherworld death causing you to come back as not you. I wouldn’t even be as upset with this if it wasn’t for the fact that Howard has been hinting that those who died that way can be brought back since she just killed off Gambit and everyone’s child grooming friend Apocalypse has apparently been prepping a back door. But this is all kinds of nonsensical, because we created a resurrection process, then created an exception, except now it’s not and it’s literally back where the entire thing started. Authors have also created other forms of what is essentially death. The more abstract is the Pit, where they are essentially consigned until being released later. Since the Pit doesn’t allow for outside contact of any kind and your retrieval from it is at the hands of the world most incompetent pair of oligarchs, it is essentially death in the comic book method. You are somewhere else, and you aren’t coming back till an author decides you are. In the same vein Immortal shoving Selene to the back of the queue is also essentially regular death. Although I’ll give the latter two more of a pass because it’s not literally creating super death and super resurrection because even the writers feel they still need a threat of dying in combat meaning something in you know, superhero comics.

    Complaint 3: Now that they’ve mechanized death, they overabuse. Seen it quite a bit on the boards where a character dies and their fans are saying “Wait, what, how did X die when they survived this, this, and this in the past.” Well the answer is when your characters can come back at any time at all, there’s no need to restrain yourselves in just killing them all of. There’s a reason people joke that X-force is the most incompetent security group in existence.

    As a final note, I’m more than a little tired of words being put in my mouth. My original complaint was specifically about the resurrection process and it’s underutilization by the authors and also the mess in Excalibur/KoX. People saying I can’t understand stakes without character death think that just because I say I find the stakes lessened somehow that’s the only part I prize, and at this point I’m pretty sure that has less to do with what I said, and more to do with the idea I was criticizing the current era in any way.

  12. #1167
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    I'll say this about Complaint 3: yeah, if you can come back from death, you're probably going to get stupid and die a lot.

    I think of it as a plus. Adversaries are actually deadly now lol. You can actually f*ck the mutants up quite a bit then move on when you're ready to stop messing them up, and they are still there to use. It's awesome.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 06-26-2022 at 02:43 AM.

  13. #1168

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    why not? People still read Capt America, Thor, Batman etc etc
    How many times in the last 2-3 years has any of those characters resurrected and died repeatedly?
    “There is no defense against the Scarlet Witch's HEX!

  14. #1169
    Spectacular Member Ulysian_Thracs's Avatar
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    As I think the issue's been touched on quite a bit, there is a difference between readers knowing a character can't really die and the character knowing s/he can't really die. It makes the mutants invincible against all enemies as long as they have resurrection, which means any fight they get into is honestly pretty boring, and it makes the characters who used to plan and plot to pull out impossible victories become careless and stupid. (Even stupider in QQ's case. Yes he's a genius, but he is like the 4 Wisdom D&D character played by your 8 year old kid brother your parents made you take along.)

  15. #1170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I'll say this about Complaint 3: yeah, if you can come back from death, you're probably going to get stupid and die a lot.

    I think of it as a plus. Adversaries are actually deadly now lol. You can actually f*ck the mutants up quite a bit then move on when you're ready to stop messing them up, and they are still there to use. It's awesome.
    This is how I feel about the whole thing. The protocols have shifted things into something new and for me, it's just a new component that doesn't prevent me from enjoying the stories. In fact this whole event is based on the mutants achieving immortality.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever!

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