Judgement Day (2022)

[king of hybrids]

I’m pretty sure one can introduce some kind of sting in the tail to the Waiting Room and the Protocols without completely removing resurrection.

[Confuzzled]

I’m pretty sure one can introduce some kind of sting in the tail to the Waiting Room and the Protocols without completely removing resurrection.

A Jumanji like finite number of resurrections per mutant would be a good compromise methinks, that would considerably up the ante while still not taking the RP completely out of commission



Maybe X lives for everyone?

[Ulysian_Thracs]

A Jumanji like finite number of resurrections per mutant would be a good compromise methinks, that would considerably up the ante while still not taking the RP completely out of commission



Maybe X lives for everyone?

I'd rather see some consequence for dying. Any at all, so it makes it something more than a shrug. You come back lesser in some way or psychologically scarred and need help to be put back together by the people who care about you. We saw some of this with Rockslide 2.0.

I would've rather even seen these people not come back as mutants but as Normies, and then have to go through the struggle and ethical considerations of getting their powers back. And the chaos of having these non-mutants on Krakoa or kicking them out.

I agree with @rift that it is something useful so we don't lose our favorite characters for decades or ever. But revolving door death is not the answer IMHO.

[king of hybrids]

A Jumanji like finite number of resurrections per mutant would be a good compromise methinks, that would considerably up the ante while still not taking the RP completely out of commission



Maybe X lives for everyone?

I was more thinking that the Eternals, now having access to the Celestials baseline blueprints for the Deviants; use the apparent genetic link to spike Mutantdom’s ability to form Circuits with each other. Suddenly the Five’s ability to carry out ressurections at an ever increasing rate as they continue to meld into a gestalt* is unbelievably reduced. Resurrection goes from industrialised to to boutique; and every time they have to resurrect the most useless incarnation of X-Force yet it’s putting the same number of genoshans back decades

And that’s before Makkari probably destroys Sinister’s gene library out of revenge for Tiamut

* and yes, I’m fully aware that that is yet another thing the X-Books have back-pedalled

Edit:
I’m assuming Destiny and Sinister’s backup card Trump them, but it would be interesting to see if the Gaian Sisterhood’s analysis based prophecies or the Titanos Hermits access to the temporal rift Kronos made might be able to counter Destiny’s visions or the Moira clones

[JB]

I was more thinking that the Eternals, now having access to the Celestials baseline blueprints for the Deviants; use the apparent genetic link to spike Mutantdom’s ability to form Circuits with each other. Suddenly the Five’s ability to carry out ressurections at an ever increasing rate as they continue to meld into a gestalt* is unbelievably reduced. Resurrection goes from industrialised to to boutique; and every time they have to resurrect the most useless incarnation of X-Force yet it’s putting the same number of genoshans back decades

And that’s before Makkari probably destroys Sinister’s gene library out of revenge for Tiamut

* and yes, I’m fully aware that that is yet another thing the X-Books have back-pedalled

I like the idea of resurrection becoming more of a "boutique" process. It lends itself to a lot of potential tension.

Edit:
I’m assuming Destiny and Sinister’s backup card Trump them, but it would be interesting to see if the Gaian Sisterhood’s analysis based prophecies or the Titanos Hermits access to the temporal rift Kronos made might be able to counter Destiny’s visions or the Moira clones

I'm not sure what any of this means but it sounds great.

[Rev9]

A Jumanji like finite number of resurrections per mutant would be a good compromise methinks, that would considerably up the ante while still not taking the RP completely out of commission



Maybe X lives for everyone?

Actually yeah since Moira had 10 lives , we can have 10 maximum lives per mutant, though for that perhaps a little background architecture needs to be established ,say although the universe is limitless the Dominions fuse a finite nexus of 10 parallel universes per cluster or even if it is not a multiverse ,they wind time in a loop of 10 cycles in one sector before switching to cycle another sector.It would be a little superfluous and add some structure ,but just have it revealed that Moira told Xavier that the universe is configured to 10 cycles before unravelling.That would give reason as to why a trickster titan sent OS back too, because the mutants will eventually seek to go at the source of the problem to break out of the loop.

[Jv565]

Actually yeah since Moira had 10 lives , we can have 10 maximum lives per mutant, though for that perhaps a little background architecture needs to be established ,say although the universe is limitless the Dominions fuse a finite nexus of 10 parallel universes per cluster or even if it is not a multiverse ,they wind time in a loop of 10 cycles in one sector before switching to cycle another sector.It would be a little superfluous and add some structure ,but just have it revealed that Moira told Xavier that the universe is configured to 10 cycles before unravelling.That would give reason as to why a trickster titan sent OS back too, because the mutants will eventually seek to go at the source of the problem to break out of the loop.

Maybe just build the new protocols off the back of Moira's powers. Maybe a secondary mutation allows her to share her power with other mutants, but to the finite limit at which she herself has it. That could also serve as a way to rehabilitate her Ala Scarlet Witch.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

Maybe just build the new protocols off the back of Moira's powers. Maybe a secondary mutation allows her to share her power with other mutants, but to the finite limit at which she herself has it. That could also serve as a way to rehabilitate her Ala Scarlet Witch.

I'm not sure I need a maximum. I love the idea of my favorite characters eventually coming back. I just want something that makes it more than a handwave. If there is a lengthy and strenuous process that makes resurrection an ordeal that in itself prevents most resurrections. Or it takes months or years for the gestation process to finish. Or you wouldn't come back with all your memories like a D&D game. (I actually hope the Synch/Laura and Eany storylines explore this more, how the people who come back are not really the same.)

And that builds the resentment of, 'Hey! Why are those X-men idiots who keep going out and getting killed skipping the line when my child who was killed by Purifiers never got a chance at all.' (They could even build this tension now...)

[king of hybrids]

Putting a maximum sounds like something that will be A) discarded quickly and B) somethings that will probably retconned to a human plot against them (like the mutant magic Poccy pulled out of his ass was somehow ‘stolen’ by ancient humanity from mutants)

I’ll be honest, since AvX only went the way it did because the Avengers movie was making a billion dollars concurrent to it; I absolutely have no faith that this event won’t involve a lot of deliberate riling up of inter-franchise rancour again; and to be Frank there’s a number of writers I just don’t trust to not do something horrible to mutantdom to beat the ‘Avengers are cops/aren’t “real” marvel characters’ drum

[gonnagiveittoya]

Maybe just build the new protocols off the back of Moira's powers. Maybe a secondary mutation allows her to share her power with other mutants, but to the finite limit at which she herself has it. That could also serve as a way to rehabilitate her Ala Scarlet Witch.

Idk if they could pull off the narrative minefield of "every single mutant death resets the universe"

[Kurolegacy]

A Jumanji like finite number of resurrections per mutant would be a good compromise methinks, that would considerably up the ante while still not taking the RP completely out of commission



Maybe X lives for everyone?

Yea that would definitely be a good compromise, would have the characters be less careless and would force writers to stop being so cheap with the abuse of killing characters so much on Krakoa just because they can respawn. Otherworld also gave us consequences to dying but that hasn’t been used much.

[jwatson]

Ooor they could have just had the editor say everybody only gets one death. Or the writers could have just not had that switch go off in their brain that said now I can find how many ways I can kill one character. Completely on the staff not the protocols for me.

[Grunty]

Ooor they could have just had the editor say everybody only gets one death. Or the writers could have just not had that switch go off in their brain that said now I can find how many ways I can kill one character. Completely on the staff not the protocols for me.

It seems quite possible that it was Hickman's intention for his fellow writers to casual overuse the RPs, in order to rapidly disconnect the mutants from the rest of humanity, make them indulge in acts of foolishness and overconfidence and set them onto a path similar to The City from his Ultimate FF. Which would mean the staff didn't overuse it by mistake but by intention.

Otherwise it would have made more sense to right away establish firm limitations, risks and potential longterm issues in order to given more incentive to writers not to overuse it so casualy, just like how all the other established methods to come back from deaths are usualy intentionaly limited.

So i would argue the problem is infact in the protocol to a degree too or at least how it was set up from the start. Since it seemingly wasn't designed as a new fixture in the X-men comics that give a second chance to dead characters or "get out of death free" card under specific circumstances, but an engine of hubris for Hickman's time limited cautionary tale style story.

[Krakoa]

IDK where this idea that "writers" casually overuse it came from. Like, one writer (Percy), maybe two casually overuses it.

I can genuinely only remember one time where Tini Howard used it, Spurrier, Wells, Hickman, Duggan, Ayala, Hill used it sparingly and almost always to serve the story (and many of the deaths that happen in their stories only happen bc the protocols exist and people know they can come back, like Sinister killing the Hellions, Pixie getting shot, or Apocalypse asking Rogue to kill him).

Williams used it a lot, but her book was about resurrection so that feels like an exception.

Ewing uses it maybe a little more than some of the others but not so egregious that it stands out to me. Can't remember what Brisson did.

[Jv565]

I mean, Gillen had a good idea with the Eternals. Each resurrection takes a human life, but I think doing that runs the risk of the X-Men looking like villains. I mean, the Eternals HAVE to resurrect. They don't have any control over it.