Judgement Day (2022)

[Mercury]

I mean, Gillen had a good idea with the Eternals. Each resurrection takes a human life, but I think doing that runs the risk of the X-Men looking like villains. I mean, the Eternals HAVE to resurrect. They don't have any control over it.

And yet, mutants don't take human lives by resurrecting, either purposefully or unintentionally.

[jwatson]

It seems quite possible that it was Hickman's intention for his fellow writers to casual overuse the RPs, in order to rapidly disconnect the mutants from the rest of humanity, make them indulge in acts of foolishness and overconfidence and set them onto a path similar to The City from his Ultimate FF. Which would mean the staff didn't overuse it by mistake but by intention.

Otherwise it would have made more sense to right away establish firm limitations, risks and potential longterm issues in order to given more incentive to writers not to overuse it so casualy, just like how all the other established methods to come back from deaths are usualy intentionaly limited.

So i would argue the problem is infact in the protocol to a degree too or at least how it was set up from the start. Since it seemingly wasn't designed as a new fixture in the X-men comics that give a second chance to dead characters or "get out of death free" card under specific circumstances, but an engine of hubris for Hickman's time limited cautionary tale style story.

Would not surprise me in the least except even hickman didn't flat out abuse the protocols, most of his deaths were contained to the data page or had huge stakes built in like the potential loss of very important information like in the vault. So there was a way built in to actually make the deaths matters if they were more situational rather than "this is something we can get away with." IMO even percy understood what the deaths were there for ala the dominino/colossus moment but he has never touched back on that as far as i know and has preferred to lean in on the cartoon deaths of quentin. But then from the beginning Percy has been trying to test things and not in a great way. Like the emma omega line, and the blatantly look quentin is omega so he can waste resurrection time. I don't think he has added on thing to the lore since he has been on X-force or Wolverine and that says a lot.

IDK where this idea that "writers" casually overuse it came from. Like, one writer (Percy), maybe two casually overuses it.

I can genuinely only remember one time where Tini Howard used it, Spurrier, Wells, Hickman, Duggan, Ayala, Hill used it sparingly and almost always to serve the story (and many of the deaths that happen in their stories only happen bc the protocols exist and people know they can come back, like Sinister killing the Hellions, Pixie getting shot, or Apocalypse asking Rogue to kill him).

Williams used it a lot, but her book was about resurrection so that feels like an exception.

Ewing uses it maybe a little more than some of the others but not so egregious that it stands out to me. Can't remember what Brisson did.

I would agree but then i have to keep circling back to how would they have managed the story if Death was strictly a background thing where it was like sure it exists but it's mainly to bring back and repower mutants, especially since now mutants who want to be reborn can just walk through the eldrich gate (which i personally think should also automatically gether their essence dna / i mean it's partially magic and wanda had to collect them for them to be there so what's to say that didn't get transferred to.) I personally just don't like the feel that it's been a target just because from the beginning and it makes me personally think about peoples frame of mind on how they present it and why. It says more about the writers than the protocol to me.

[Jv565]

And yet, mutants don't take human lives by resurrecting, either purposefully or unintentionally.

I just meant it was a good idea thematically.

[WallStreeter]

The Xmen have always been immortal or unkillable just like any other Marvel Comics character. Professor Xavier, Magneto, the Fantastic Four, most of the original Avengers should be dead from old age, but because these are popular characters either they will not die or if they do they come back. Krakoa and the resurrection protocol merely formalize this in a cool way. Hickman just went meta.

In fact being there a number of sorcerers are around, all they had to do is get someone good with cloning, make a clone, and put the soul of a dead person in it. Telepaths exist as psychic ghosts after they died. All they need is someone to make a clone body for them.

[jwatson]

The Xmen have always been immortal or unkillable just like any other Marvel Comics character. Professor Xavier, Magneto, the Fantastic Four, most of the original Avengers should be dead from old age, but because these are popular characters either they will not die or if they do they come back. Krakoa and the resurrection protocol merely formalize this in a cool way. Hickman just went meta.

In fact being there a number of sorcerers are around, all they had to do is get someone good with cloning, make a clone, and put the soul of a dead person in it. Telepaths exist as psychic ghosts after they died. All they need is someone to make a clone body for them.

Not to mention death has always been not a big deal in mutants books. Did they matter? sure. But there was always and underlying that death for mutants isn't the end. Would be nice to see someone put together a collage of all the time mutants have said "death isn't permanent." Obviously they were on to something. Besides the looming of death for me doesn't add or take away anything from a story cause i never want my faves to die anyway and most complain non-stop when theirs do. So what's really the point. I prefer compelling stories and i don't think death is what makes one that one way or the other. I mean how many people complain no one dies in manga but look at the numbers.

[Cyclone_Ablaze]

And yet, mutants don't take human lives by resurrecting, either purposefully or unintentionally.

I don't think it's anyone else business if Mutants can resurrect themselves.

[Jv565]

I don't think it's anyone else business if Mutants can resurrect themselves.

I don't know if I agree with that. It's certainly not the Eternals business (though I don't think they'll have much control over their actions), but death is a real issue for literally every person in the world. If the people in one country had a cure for cancer, would you say it's no one's business if they didn't want to share it with the rest of the world?

[JB]

I don't know if I agree with that. It's certainly not the Eternals business (though I don't think they'll have much control over their actions), but death is a real issue for literally every person in the world. If the people in one country had a cure for cancer, would you say it's no one's business if they didn't want to share it with the rest of the world?

If it were that simple then yes I'd agree that it would be the world's business. But in the context of mutants having been hunted and slaughtered for years and finally figuring out a way to bring back all of those mutants whose lives were taken, it changes things big time imo.

[jwatson]

And yet, mutants don't take human lives by resurrecting, either purposefully or unintentionally.

And low and behold who is always having some judgement day or something. Not those that gassed the mutants when they were minding their own business and not those who swooped in because their program is to judge despite them being the ones that are the bigger danger to humanity. And yet, somehow they are always the ones seemingly presented as the victims, at least in the real world of " oh inhumans were done dirty and eternals are about to be as though somehow that falls on the shoulders of mutant fans for not buying the koolaid. I know i personally am so over other people who don't even buy or read the x-books trying to dictate what x-fans should or should not want based on the one corner they visit.

[jwatson]

I don't know if I agree with that. It's certainly not the Eternals business (though I don't think they'll have much control over their actions), but death is a real issue for literally every person in the world. If the people in one country had a cure for cancer, would you say it's no one's business if they didn't want to share it with the rest of the world?

Depends on the country that discovered it to be honest and how they were or are treated by the international community. No one owes anyone their inventions or ideas and not everyone deserves it. So given the context of how countries treat mutants in general including their own, including when their own land was being violated and it was hurting their citizens i wouldn't be angry if they didn't share. But i try to see both sides and yes not all humans were bad but not all mutants were dangerous.

[Covetous_One]

And low and behold who is always having some judgement day or something. Not those that gassed the mutants when they were minding their own business and not those who swooped in because their program is to judge despite them being the ones that are the bigger danger to humanity. And yet, somehow they are always the ones seemingly presented as the victims, at least in the real world of " oh inhumans were done dirty and eternals are about to be as though somehow that falls on the shoulders of mutant fans for not buying the koolaid. I know i personally am so over other people who don't even buy or read the x-books trying to dictate what x-fans should or should not want based on the one corner they visit.

Technically Eternals are programmed to protect humans to a certain extant and Eternal society keeps to itself so there is minimal interaction between them except for interaction with specific individuals. Plus Eternals are programmed to judge “excess” deviation, but this seems largely based on Druig wanting to mess with others and a majority of Eternal society wanting to go back to being the main ones dominating the Earth.

[jwatson]

Technically Eternals are programmed to protect humans to a certain extant and Eternal society keeps to itself so there is minimal interaction between them except for interaction with specific individuals. Plus Eternals are programmed to judge “excess” deviation, but this seems largely based on Druig wanting to mess with others and a majority of Eternal society wanting to go back to being the main ones dominating the Earth.

I read gillien entire run on eternals so i know of the recent developments to make this story work.

[Covetous_One]

I read gillien entire run on eternals so i know of the recent developments to make this story work.

I know, just saying they aren’t as much of a threat to humans. They have the power to be, but they really don’t have much of a reason to do anything to them.

[jwatson]

I know, just saying they aren’t as much of a threat to humans. They have the power to be, but they really don’t have much of a reason to do anything to them.

Certainly more reason than mutants. For all intents and purposes mutants come from humans so if they decide excess deviation needs to go what's stopping their programming from going after the source.

[Covetous_One]

Certainly more reason than mutants. For all intents and purposes mutants come from humans so if they decide excess deviation needs to go what's stopping their programming from going after the source.

I think the only thing stopping them is their adherence to Eternal law, cause we both know Uranos would eradicate everything in the solar system that isn’t an Eternal, so really what it comes down to discipline. Yet Eternals just see humans as insignificant beings who can’t really do anything to them so for the most part Eternal society lets humans do as they please cause in their eyes humans collectively haven’t done anything to give a hint that they could be a match for Eternal society.