Judgement Day (2022)

[Ulysian_Thracs]

Ah yes, the defense of someone who has no leg to stand on in an argument and wants to pretend otherwise: act like the other person is triggered.

I didn't miss the part where you said you didn't think that's what I meant, I just ignored it because I was perfectly willing to clarify what I meant and didn't need you explaining what you thought I meant or acting like you were giving me the benefit of the doubt, while the rest of your response assumed the exact opposite.

As you can see from my response, clearly I still disagree with what you thought I was saying. So....why shouldn't I have said so just because you said 'I don't think that's what you meant, btw?'

*Shrugs* Sorry not sorry, I don't like it when people try and play things like 'I'm on your side buddy' when their real point is clearly aimed at undermining or discrediting the other person's point. I can speak for myself, and I did. Respond to my words and not your prejudicial assumption of my emotional state, or just don't reply. Either works for me.

I know a bunch of guys who got tapped on the nose in college. They weren’t gay, but they did insult and talk down to random strangers the way you do. In my opinion, Quenten Quire is not someone to emulate in real life.

But I know you’re putting a lot more into this than I am based on your past traumatic experience, so I do apologize if I worded my original post in a way that made you feel like I was attacking you rather than disagreeing with your viewpoint. Hurting you was never my intention, even when I responded to your aggressive and belittling response with sarcasm of my own. But none of that gives you the right to speak to people in the manner in which you are speaking to the people in this thread who merely disagree with you. No one attacked you personally, and we were all polite in our disagreement with your viewpoint. I am just here to discuss comics because I just started rereading after a decade. I think your posts are insightful, though I disagree with them, and I hope in the future you can see my posts as an invitation to converse and potentially teach me something.

[jwatson]

I know a bunch of guys who got tapped on the nose in college. They weren’t gay, but they did insult and talk down to random strangers the way you do. In my opinion, Quenten Quire is not someone to emulate in real life.

But I know you’re putting a lot more into this than I am based on your past traumatic experience, so I do apologize if I worded my original post in a way that made you feel like I was attacking you rather than disagreeing with your viewpoint. Hurting you was never my intention, even when I responded to your aggressive and belittling response with sarcasm of my own. But none of that gives you the right to speak to people in the manner in which you are speaking to the people in this thread who merely disagree with you. No one attacked you personally, and we were all polite in our disagreement with your viewpoint. I am just here to discuss comics because I just started rereading after a decade. I think your posts are insightful, though I disagree with them, and I hope in the future you can see my posts as an invitation to converse and potentially teach me something.

This whole thing was condescending. what was even the point in acting like you care about his response or his state if your going to back door insult him and then do the same thing he so eloquently asked one not to do. WOW.

[JB]

I truly love this back and forth, even if it gets heated. Shows how much everyone cares.

I’d say that at that point, it should come down to a case to case basis. Should they open the protocols to humans, it doesn’t have to be all humans initially. Start with a smaller pool, particularly those who are younger and had underlying issues such as terminal disease. It would increase the queue but for an understandable group. At that point, they could even alternate between mutants and that pool of humans. It would seem kinda hypocritical for mutantkind to resent the innocent whose life was tragically cut short due to circumstances beyond their control getting a chance at life.

Yeah this is the stuff that would have to be worked out if they decided to open it up to humans. It'd be different if they had a fast-tracked mechanism where it can be done en masse quickly, but logistically it's still a puzzle to be solved as it takes The Five. Now that the protocols are public knowledge, I have to imagine the likes of Reed and Tony are chomping at the bit to find a way to duplicate them, to ZuLuLu's point.

I didn't finish Trial of Magneto so I missed some details but does anyone know if it's even possible for Wanda to create a Waiting Room for humans?

[king of hybrids]

On a lighter note, I will consider myself cheated if they welch on earth superheroes interacting the Arakkii

[Ulysian_Thracs]

This whole thing was condescending. what was even the point in acting like you care about his response or his state if your going to back door insult him and then do the same thing he so eloquently asked one not to do. WOW.

To the contrary, I do care about his response as it relates to the comics. I am here to get different perspectives and learn things, particularly to see how people who have had different life experiences than me are reading or understanding the material. I'd love to have a civil discussion with him about the comics, and hope to do so in the future. But I am not here to be insulted or spoken down to by strangers. Perhaps ironically, my original point about the X-Men is that having been victimized by a specific person or people in the past does not confer the right to treat random strangers who have never done anything to you like sh!t.

[BobbysWorld]

I know a bunch of guys who got tapped on the nose in college. They weren’t gay, but they did insult and talk down to random strangers the way you do. In my opinion, Quenten Quire is not someone to emulate in real life.

LMAO. Yeah, you're a real class act, alright. This part here is definitely the moral high ground you think it is.

Anyway, don't worry about my poor little fee-fees, dude. I'm not actually feeling attacked or hurt; kinda why I never claimed I did and all that language has just been stuff you've kept trying to project on me. I just don't like what you had to say and responded to it with the energy I felt it deserved. *Shrugs* I prefer direct communication over fake-ass pretexts of civility that don't actually fool anyone with adequate reading comprehension. Sorry not sorry, but I don't think trying to pretend you're slick about dishing out insults makes you a paragon of civility. Oh well.

[jwatson]

To the contrary, I do care about his response as it relates to the comics. I am here to get different perspectives and learn things, particularly to see how people who have had different life experiences than me are reading or understanding the material. I'd love to have a civil discussion with him about the comics, and hope to do so in the future. But I am not here to be insulted or spoken down to by strangers. Perhaps ironically, my original point about the X-Men is that having been victimized by a specific person or people in the past does not confer the right to treat random strangers who have never done anything to you like sh!t.

I don't believe it. I literally got goosebumps reading your post and the bad kind. If it was about sticking on topic and discussing comics you would not have once again tried to infer words and emotions into his post. That's why in my opinion you felt the need to continue in on his emotional state, and double down on his experience rather than getting back to the topic at hand. You had to "let him know". and all you did was show yourself and him to be right. But i'm just another random opinion it is what it is. im done.

[Grinning Soul]

A conceptual question first:

Should anyone use resurrection methods at all?

Life requires resources that are not unlimited. Death is part of the cycle of life: beings have to die so others can live.

When you take the resources problem into consideration and you look at one particular species, if this species can reproduce, death is even more of a necessity.

--

Now, back to the comics, Eternals cannot reproduce with Eternals. They cannot increase their numbers and they cannot increase the numbers of people who have access to their resurrection method (meaning: a half-eternal can't be resurrected). Moreover, their method leads to a zero sum in terms of resources because one life is taken for another to be restored. That does not make it right by any means, it's immoral. But when it comes to resources, it's balanced.

Even if the role of the five could somehow be replicated, even if the memory storage issue was somehow solved, allowing access to resurrection to every one would be catastrophic for the all the other species who share the planet with us.

So if the Eternals method is immoral and the resurrection protocols method leads to serious problems related to resources, I guess the question is not whether or not mutants should share their resurrection method with humans, but if anyone should be using it at all.

What do you guys think?

[jwatson]

A conceptual question first:

Should anyone use resurrection methods at all?

Life requires resources that are not unlimited. Death is part of the cycle of life: beings have to die so others can live.

When you take the resources problem into consideration and you look at one particular species, if this species can reproduce, death is even more of a necessity.

--

Now, back to the comics, Eternals cannot reproduce with Eternals. They cannot increase their numbers and they cannot increase the numbers of people who have access to their resurrection method (meaning: a half-eternal can be resurrected). Moreover, their method leads to a zero sum in terms of resources because one life is taken for another to be restored. That does not make it right by any means, it's immoral. But when it comes to resources, it's balanced.

Even if the role of the five could somehow be replicated, even if the memory storage issue was somehow solved, allowing access to resurrection to every one would be catastrophic for the all the other species who share the planet with us.

So if the Eternals method is immoral and the resurrection protocols method leads to serious problems related to resources, I guess the question is not whether or not mutants should share their resurrection method with humans, but if anyone should be using it at all.

What do you guys think?

To answer the first question mutants can produce all those things though. They can terraform planets under their own power to create more space and resources. They can create food etc. So mutant resurrection potentially doesn't cost anyone a single resource. As of right now they are limited to a self sustaining island and those who are not like firestar, who only uses the gates are subject to whatever laws they have where she lives. so at this point their resurrection definitely doesn't cost anyone a single thing and with Mars they have a place to put their people.

an interesting question, to me, would be would it be right for Krakoans do deny resurrection to mutants who choose not to live on krakoa or do anything in service of the nation but want to take advantage of the benefits.

[Grinning Soul]

To answer the first question mutants can produce all those things though. They can terraform planets under their own power to create more space and resources. They can create food etc. So mutant resurrection potentially doesn't cost anyone a single resource. As of right now they are limited to a self sustaining island so at this point their resurrection definitely doesn't cost anyone a single thing and with Mars they have a place to put their people/

Fair point, but that just increases the amount of resources. It doesn't fix the issue. It just allows for more lives before you get to the critical point. But you will get to the critical point eventually. What happens then?

[sunofdarkchild]

Krakoa is explicitly a post-scarcity society. Like how Star Trek can get rid of the concept of money once everyone has a replicator. The resources are truly unlimited.

[jwatson]

Fair point, but that just increases the amount of resources. It doesn't fix the issue. It just allows for more lives before you get to the critical point. But you will get to the critical point eventually. What happens then?

What resources are we talking about and for whom though. There are no limited resources when it comes to mutant kind. Mutants aren't using resources as is, not the way humanity is so would it be right to bring back humans when they are the biggest drain on any resource or would it them have to extend to creating resources for them etc. We have seen iceman fixing human issues, or trying to like the polar icecaps etc, should those being resurrected have to bring something to the table to prevent that. I mean the question as presented kind of sounds like should a rich man not spend his money because a poor man doesn't have any.

[useridgoeshere]

When humans dismantle all systems intended to annihilate Mutantkind, they can whine about resurrection. Most Mutants are not dead from natural causes. They're dead because humans have created an industry of hate groups and machines to intentionally exterminate them. Mutant resurrection doesn't disrupt the natural order. Humans who murder Mutants do.

[Grinning Soul]

Krakoa is explicitly a post-scarcity society. Like how Star Trek can get rid of the concept of money once everyone has a replicator. The resources are truly unlimited.

Actually, they're not. Even replicators need atoms to form molecules and then form the structures that are being replicated. Replicators don't fuse hydrogen to create other atoms. Stars do.

[Grinning Soul]

What resources are we talking about and for whom though. There are no limited resources when it comes to mutant kind. Mutants aren't using resources as is, not the way humanity is so would it be right to bring back humans when they are the biggest drain on any resource or would it them have to extend to creating resources for them etc. We have seen iceman fixing human issues, or trying to like the polar icecaps etc, should those being resurrected have to bring something to the table to prevent that. I mean the question as presented kind of sounds like should a rich man not spend his money because a poor man doesn't have any.

I'm talking about carbon, hydrogen, photosynthesis etc... Things that have to do with organic life in general. Not mutants or humans or anything like that.

EDITED: we can create an alien species to address this issue and put them living on en entire different system if that will make it easier to detach the discussion from the mutant-human-Earth problem.