Judgement Day (2022)

[Ulysian_Thracs]

Well the antimatter bomb never would have worked in the first place, though none of the characters would have known that, or why.

But as long as Sinister's got Moira clones hidden somewhere on the island, destroying the whole island would have killed the clones, automatically resetting the timeline to one of the previous 'save states' he created by activating the clones' mutations at different points in the timeline.

You're right, there was no way the anti-matter bomb was going to go off plot wise. (And I'm glad, because it would've only served to wipe out all the 'useless' young mutants X-offices hates and I care about! I was afraid this was going to be M-Day 2.0)

And all these sinister reveals are my favorite part of the storyline so far. I've always felt that writers do a disservice to their believed heroes when they don't write strong, smart villains for them to struggle to overcome.

[Harasar]

Well the antimatter bomb never would have worked in the first place, though none of the characters would have known that, or why.

But as long as Sinister's got Moira clones hidden somewhere on the island, destroying the whole island would have killed the clones, automatically resetting the timeline to one of the previous 'save states' he created by activating the clones' mutations at different points in the timeline.

Good point! Although, I now could not stop thinking, what would have happened if several clones of Moira were killed simultaneously? To which of them timeline would be reset? Would it have split into several, one for each clone?

[king of hybrids]

Is it not also possible that now setting off multiple seemingly Omniversal-level reality resets off at once is probably also what set off the machines safeguards

[Saithor]

Moira is honestly a very frightening concept when you think about it. If she hadn’t been depowered, what would have happened if she ever just expired of old age? I know methods of immortality exist of course, but still, it’s a weird gray area. If anything I’d imagine that would panic the Marvel earth more than the resurrection protocols, the idea that any moment if one person who might not even be on earth dies, you die too as the entire universe gets reset

[Jv565]

Good point! Although, I now could not stop thinking, what would have happened if several clones of Moira were killed simultaneously? To which of them timeline would be reset? Would it have split into several, one for each clone?

I guessing whichever one physically dies first resets things and the others are wiped out, assuming they didnÂ’t exist when that one was created.

[JB]

Is it not also possible that now setting off multiple seemingly Omniversal-level reality resets off at once is probably also what set off the machines safeguards

Good question, it's very possible.

I like that the Machine thinks Krakoa is a nice guy and it's a part of earth in a fundamental way.
When Druig and Domo got that "protect the machine" feedback whiplash, would other Eternals have gotten it too or just them because of their proximity?

[Saithor]

I guessing whichever one physically dies first resets things and the others are wiped out, assuming they didnÂ’t exist when that one was created.

Technically with an anti-matter bomb any amount of time would be impercitible if it even existed.

[king of hybrids]

Good question, it's very possible.

I like that the Machine thinks Krakoa is a nice guy and it's a part of earth in a fundamental way.
When Druig and Domo got that "protect the machine" feedback whiplash, would other Eternals have gotten it too or just them because of their proximity?

The safeguards triggered because they specifically were the ones acting against the machine (eg the protagonist Eternals weren’t crippled by safeguards the way Phastos was) and it’s why Uranos’ deadman switch was so dangerous (if he’s disembodied there’s no way for physical distress to force him to deactivate the bombs)

[Habis]

Moira is honestly a very frightening concept when you think about it. If she hadn’t been depowered, what would have happened if she ever just expired of old age? I know methods of immortality exist of course, but still, it’s a weird gray area. If anything I’d imagine that would panic the Marvel earth more than the resurrection protocols, the idea that any moment if one person who might not even be on earth dies, you die too as the entire universe gets reset

I think the plan was always to depower her. Or maybe to edit her DNA to make her immortal, and depower her once she was tired of life...

[BobbysWorld]

Moira is honestly a very frightening concept when you think about it. If she hadn’t been depowered, what would have happened if she ever just expired of old age? I know methods of immortality exist of course, but still, it’s a weird gray area. If anything I’d imagine that would panic the Marvel earth more than the resurrection protocols, the idea that any moment if one person who might not even be on earth dies, you die too as the entire universe gets reset

This was actually the entire basis of a theory I had about where things with Moira and Destiny were going way back when House of X/Powers of X first came out years ago.

So, House of X #2….plot hole or lie?

When Destiny is confronting Moira in her third life, she tells Moira she has at most ten or eleven lives. Because, Irene says…if she dies as a child, before her mutant powers manifest, then she’ll die for good, her powers won’t make her reincarnate.

Except.

Just a few pages before that, it goes:

“Moira’s second life began in utero. It was the womb birth of a fully sentient being who had a perfect recollection of her prior life.”

Moira explicitly states that she was aware, even while she was still in the womb.

Which means, she was born with her powers already manifested.

So how can she die for good, if she’s killed before they manifest ‘as a child’….if she already has them in the womb?

Either that makes no sense and contradicts itself….or Irene just flat out lied to Moira…..

Which she has great reason to do…if Moira KEPT doing what she’d done for her first three lives, and just kept reincarnating over and over in an endless eternal loop.

It was only the threat of permanent death, being told she only has a finite number of lives…that got Moira to switch gears, and start working to preserve the mutant race as a whole.

BUT. Not just that.

It also meant….Moira started working on preserving HERSELF for as long as necessary in each timeline, in order to try and help the mutant race survive and flourish.

And in her last life before this current one, the one that goes all the way to a thousand years in the future in Powers of X….Moira survives that whole millennium, by piggybacking her knowledge of genetics and Logan’s powers.

Which means, that previous life before this one….the ENTIRE timeline as a whole, advanced further than it ever had before….before Moira’s ‘reset button’ sent them all back to the start of her personal timeline.

Where this time around, at her prompting, Xavier and Magneto acted together…and this ultimately resulted in the Krakoan society we see forming now…as well as the reincarnation process, for all mutants as a whole.

So far, House of X and Powers of X made it seem like all of this, everything that’s come before, is about Moira’s machinations, with the help of Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse….to keep the mutant race alive and flourishing.

But what if ALL of that is a red herring?

And all along, this is ultimately about DESTINY’S machinations…by manipulating Moira herself into believing she has a finite amount of lives to ‘succeed’ in….

Resulting in Moira undertaking actions that not only benefit the mutant race as a whole….but keep extending her lifespan further and further each lifetime….with the latest one extending all the way a thousand years into the future…

And then finally culminating in this current lifetime, where they engineer what’s effectively a way for any mutant to live potentially forever…..Moira included?

Because if Irene lied, all the way back in Moira’s third life, and Moira doesn’t actually have a limit to her lifetimes…..she would keep reincarnating over and over and resetting the timeline each time….essentially trapping their entire timeline in an endless loop that would never advance past Moira’s own lifespan….

And the only way Irene saw to prevent THAT, to break THAT eternal cycle….

Was to engineer Moira’s potential immortality in particular. The longer Moira lives, the closer Moira, more than any other mutant, gets towards ascending to mutant godhood….

The longer the entire timeline as a whole can evolve.

And without Moira’s manipulations, without the advancements in longevity and reincarnation for everyone, through each subsequent lifetime, and without the threat of permanent death from Destiny….

One comparatively little lie….

The entire timeline, in Irene’s foresight, was inevitably doomed to always stagnate and recycle itself, like Ouroborous eating its own tail.

Meaning none of this is really due to Moira at all, at the end of the day.

Its about Destiny.

LOL whoops. That theory didn't age well, but whatever. I still say that could've worked. *Shrugs*

[Saithor]

This was actually the entire basis of a theory I had about where things with Moira and Destiny were going way back when House of X/Powers of X first came out years ago.



LOL whoops. That theory didn't age well, but whatever. I still say that could've worked. *Shrugs*

I mean you were right about the It’s about Destiny part. But yeah, I know I wouldn’t but my existence against the odds that Moira avoided ever choking on a chicken nuggie

I do have to just…wonder at what was the point of evil AI robot Moira? Did they just not know what to do with her and decided having her become the second Omega Sentinel would work best? Like…I don’t get it. The cynic in me wants to just say that they didn’t want a villain more complicated than “Rar, evil bigot!” Which is unfortunately supported by the latest Sinister. But…IDK, I like to give Percy the benefit of doubt because he at least tried to bring up interesting possibilities around the resurrection protocols before the books became more interested in ways to make them not work instead of interesting stories revolving around them.

[Jv565]

Technically with an anti-matter bomb any amount of time would be impercitible if it even existed.

Oh...Well, then it beats the hell outta me.

[charliehustle415]

dumb question: did moira ever run into the eternals problem in any of her lives?

i mean she experienced a lot of iterations of mutant extinction, is there some nugget in a data page that shows the threat of the eternals?

[king of hybrids]

dumb question: did moira ever run into the eternals problem in any of her lives?

i mean she experienced a lot of iterations of mutant extinction, is there some nugget in a data page that shows the threat of the eternals?

I’d imagine that in a lot of lives things took a left turn before the Final Host could show up and send the Eternals into the social tailspin that’s resulting in Judgement Day, and Life 6 and 9 had probably eliminated the Deviants and Baseline humans that the machine could harvest to fuel the Eternals immortality.

So she’d probably mostly know of them from Apocalypse’s recollections of his dealings with Ikaris etc

[charliehustle415]

I’d imagine that in a lot of lives things took a left turn before the Final Host could show up and send the Eternals into the social tailspin that’s resulting in Judgement Day, and Life 6 and 9 had probably eliminated the Deviants and Baseline humans that the machine could harvest to fuel the Eternals immortality.

So she’d probably mostly know of them from Apocalypse’s recollections of his dealings with Ikaris etc

ahh okay, because it just feels outta left field but it makes sense Gillen is in charge of the line