Judgement Day (2022)

[Rev9]

The mystery of the ages, especially since we know that Moira was withholding info from Mags and Xavier as well, manipulating them too. The retcon to Moira's character really just also made some of the choices characters made in the past just too time consuming trying to decipher their "true" intent. It's all very nebulous so I gave up trying to unravel it.

It also doesn't help that besides Emma, Mystique, and Destiny, no writer seems interested in telling us ANYONE else's opinion on what Mags and Charles did via Moira. They've totally dropped the ball on it hard.

Quoted for truth!

[PolarIceFire]

The information in the link reminds me what a can of worms it always is to bring in real world genetic knowledge when trying to explain or define the X-gene in the Marvel comics, especialy when it comes to the justification of mutants being seemingly not humans but a whole new species, since in the real world all humans differ by SEVERAL genes from each other allready, even though they are otherwise genetical quite homogeneous.

That is of course in addition to the problem that the laws of physics breaking super powers from these works of fictions can't occur in the real world. So the comparisons in general are allready murky and just lend themself to logic issues.

But even if we humor the super powers as being explainable or definable with real world logic and accept that said single gene is responcible for creating and maintaining them, it does not warrant a true seperation in species categorization of X-gene mutants from other humans, since these super powers are an entirely superficial change in nature.

Because practically* every mutant who gets depowered (having their SINGLE super power granting gene supressed, removed or made dormant) tends to revert to a default state identical to those of normal humans.
Which just reinforces that they didn't actualy move anywhere from the same evolutionary branch as regular humans at all. A single gene supressed can't "degradate" someone to a previous evolutionary point.
Imagine someone switching of a single gene in a person and the affected would turn from homo sapiens to homo erectus in an instant. Skrulls don't stop being Skrulls either just because someone put them in a field that prevents their shape shifting from working.

Meanwhile switching of a gene (or more) causing a person to become weaker or suffering from health issues (basicly what depowered mutants are described to feel like) sounds a lot more reasonable.

So as weird as this sounds, by what we can actualy see in the Marvel Universe, when compared to real world knowledge, super powers caused by the X-gene are actualy much closer to super natural (often more dangerous to others) physical traits or genetic disorder (based on how beneficial or harmfull they are to the mutant), than deep seated genetic alterations which could warrant a perceived split into a different species.

Which also means that the term "deviant" doesn't make much sense for mutants either. At least when used in comparison to normal humans.

Since if super powers are actualy a natural part of humanity, via the natural occuring X-gene mutation, Mutants are infact not deviating from humans at all, they are merely an additional expression of them via sharing a single gene difference to all the other groups of humans with shared traits.

Infact given how deeply and permanently people like Spiderman or The Hulk had whole sections of their genetic code altered to create their super powers, they make much more sense to be considered "deviation" from baseline humans than mutants.

So yeah can of worms.

* We had 2 mass depowerings of practically all mutants on Earth and of the millions (17 millions in the 1999 story, 1 million in Decimation) who were affected only a handfull (of which only like 6 were shown) suffered from not reverting to normal human form.

It's implied, as far as I'm concerned anyway, that the fictional, singular X-gene & how it manifests when activated, cannot be equated with already existing, human genetic variances in the real world. And I personally avoid conflating the two, as I realize a suspension of disbelief is required when engaging with these imaginary creations. Also, subspecies would be the correct term, for as you say, the differing, mutant expressions do not rise to the level of them being categorized as completely separate. I would say the same also applies to the likes of the MU's Atlanteans & Inhumans. Eternals/Deviants on the other hand, seem to be more akin to synthetic constructs now. As far as regressing to "regular" once depowered, in legal speak, I take that as more of a 'for all intents & purposes" thing. The degree to which a mutant's physiology can change & how distinct it can be, though, definitely does line up with the definition of:

deviation = divergence/digression/departure... *anomaly*... CHANGE!...

in my mind. The fact that's it's natural, as you say, doesn't negate that in any way, and is therefore irrelevant.

[Zelena]

The information in the link reminds me what a can of worms it always is to bring in real world genetic knowledge when trying to explain or define the X-gene in the Marvel comics, especialy when it comes to the justification of mutants being seemingly not humans but a whole new species, since in the real world all humans differ by SEVERAL genes from each other allready, even though they are otherwise genetical quite homogeneous. …

I always find rather odd this need to explain a fictional world through real-world lenses. It has never meant to be explained in a rational way. The author has just added a veneer of realistic appearance to feel we are on familiar ground, to everything look plausible…

I just want it to be consistent, that the characters don’t change of personality from a run to another… and we don’t have even that.

[jwatson]

Sometimes real world examples do help to frame things. Like for instance there is no difference to me between gay people who be like so and so color is my preference and a straight person that says being around gay people is not my preference. Both are supposedly preferences and both are going to hurt some people. So both should be able to offer the other the chance to explain why otherwise one is a hypocrite. I think that example explains a lot how I see things and also can inform others when a similar example presents itself.

[PolarIceFire]

The only difference between mutants & mutates is the process, as the outcomes are generally the same.

Mutants are meant to be metaphorical of RL occurances & situations, it's not the other way around, wherein the real world is an allegory for the X-Men. I feel that line is increasingly getting blurred. Now, you can apply it either way of course, as it's supposed to be BUT... only to a certain degree. Otherwise, as has been demonstrated quite deftly, it falls apart rather quickly... if ya look too close, and think too hard about it.

There was a 3rd point I wanted to make, that now seems to have escaped me. Oh well, if it was that important, it'll come back & I'll post it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Probably could start jotting them down, I guess.

[PolarIceFire]

NVM, that thought looped back & it was, *SOME OF*...

[ZuLuLu]

I always find rather odd this need to explain a fictional world through real-world lenses. It has never meant to be explained in a rational way. The author has just added a veneer of realistic appearance to feel we are on familiar ground, to everything look plausible…

I just want it to be consistent, that the characters don’t change of personality from a run to another… and we don’t have even that.

Yep, people are over thinking their science fiction, 'science'.

However, the best equivalent I can make that Mutants and Mutates have Deviant DNA doesn't make them Deviant the same may modern human having Neanderthal DNA doesn't make them Neanderthals.

The Deviants (a race with various mutations) have just left traces of their DNA in humans that allows them to change/ evolve/ deviate, however the Deviants didn't pass down the same groups of genes to everyone. For those classified as Mutants it is the X-gene, this allows mutations to spontaneously manifest themselves during puberty, triggered by a traumatic event, whereas for mutates, like Spider-Man, Hulk also have remnants of Deviant DNA but not the specific X-genes, therefore their mutation would not show up spontaneously but often requires an external agents such as chemicals or radiation.

[JB]

The Avengers are a tad miffed that the Eternals knew Thanos was on Earth, actively covered up his presence, used Tony as bait to draw Gilgamesh and his crew into their bullshit, neglected to mention Thanos had been named as Prime Eternal with free reign to kill people directly or indirectly with impunity; and only fessed up when Thanos had literally triggered a doomsday device.

Ah OK yes, now it's coming together for me more clearly. Thank you!

[MkDiz]

This first issue definitely restored my faith. Why bring Cable back right away if he’s not going to be doing anything meaningful in the remaining five issues?

Also, why bring him back with the mutated T-O virus look (more transmode-phalanx like) that he’s been sporting on and off since X-men Red #1? Which I’m starting to believe has become the default look of his techno-organics, whereas in the past it was more bio-metallic. Now it looks more Warlock-y, at least underneath the metal plating of his different arms (such as the Stealth Arm that Hope outfitted him with the last time she brought him back in XMR #3). Here you can clearly see the glowing blue techno-organics underneath the metal plating of the arm in the open spaces/cracks or seams of the arm itself…

Attachment 123113

I think this is all part of a running plot of Ewing’s that will have some payoff… from the virus mutating during the Peak’s fall to Earth in the final issues of S.W.O.R.D. to adult Cable insisting he be brought back with the virus so he could continue to study it… to Brand orchestrating his death at the hands of the Progenitors so she could obtain a sample of his full viral load and study it… to even Nimrod’s recent killing of Magus, Warlock’s father (mentioned in Legion of X)… all this techno-organic/Technarch/Phalanx stuff is probably going somewhere.

And, of course, I believe the original strain of the T-O virus originated with the Celestials, so that’s highly topical in A.X.E. Judgment Day too. The strain Cable was infected with had been referred to as “the Apocalypse strain” since Poccy modified it and weaponized it (and I said “had been referred to” because it clearly seems to have mutated — as I said, possibly due to cosmic radiation exposure during the Peak’s descent — and thus it seems to be in a form that more resembles the source virus now).

At any rate, there’s definitely more coming related to all these dangling T-O plot threads. For sure.

Hope so, cause I'm running out of hopium right now. While its logical that all these plot points would and should lead to some sort of payoff it is equally likely that its just going to join the other countless abandoned plot points given that, according to the writers themselves, Cable isnt even one of the important characters.

Right now I seriously just want him to get out of Krakoa and just do his own thing. He hasnt done anything worth mentioning in Krakoa and the writers just keep using him to prop up other characters.

I mean, this event involves the Celestials judging the mutants and while it is an AU (that branches off after X Factor), in X Factor Forever (written by Louise Simonson) Baby Christopher was deemed by the Celestials as a proof of mutant viability, judging him as the perfect mutant (Should be the same in the main universe since baby Cable was also called perfect by Sinister). You would think that this would be at least mentioned in this event but nada. He isnt even one of the important supporting characters when given his history and lore you would think that he would play a bigger role. I like Exodus but he shouldnt get more role in this event than Cable.

son.jpg

Like, this is literally the perfect event to explore all the prophecies, genetics (Cable being the genetic son of Jean and Cyclops plus the Phoenix through Madelyne) and lore of Cable and hes just going to be sidelined again.

[Jackraow21]

I feel you. They constantly refer to him as “the greatest soldier” but also constantly kill and sideline him. It’s a bit frustrating and feels like Marvel doesn’t know what to do with him as a character. I do, though! Maybe I should submit a pitch to them in my spare time. Ha.

[MkDiz]

It seems like theyre seriously trying to ruin Cable's character this era. Killing him, sidelining him and having him constantly being taken advantage of is ruining his "greatest soldier" sthick while all the retcons like him not being an omega just made all those stories about his fabled bloodline and limitless potential stupid and non sensical. Dont get me wrong, im not saying they turn Cable into Nate Grey but Cables potential has always been an important part of his character. So now his potential is gone, he also doesnt seem to be a great soldier with how they are portraying him so what do they really want to do with him?

I was hoping theyre going to do something to at least redeem him this judgement day but i guess not

[Jackraow21]

Personally I’d rather he live up to his soldier rep than his unlimited power potential. We’ve got plenty of uber powerful mutants waving their hands and performing feats. That stuff excites some people, but it bores me. I don’t read Cable for Superman. Or X-man.

Give me the guy who is a Level 7 fighting ability combatant wielding weapons and nerfed Jedi-like powers.

[MkDiz]

Personally I’d rather be live up to his soldier rep than his unlimited power potential. We’ve got plenty of uber powerful mutants waving their hands and performing feats. That stuff excites some people, but it bores me. I don’t read Cable for X-man. Or Superman.

Yeah, like I said, im not saying turn him into X man but his potential is an important part of his lore. Even if its not used it is something that separates him from the other dudes with guns and metal arms. A lot of his story is about it, he was created because of it, thats one of the reason why the Askani took him, its the reason why hes the chosen one, why apoc took interest in him etc. Retconning thay theres nothing special about his powers and potential makes a lot of those stories nonsensical if you think about it

Edit: Now that I had vent my frustrations Im going back to my "just hope for the best" mode

[Mercury]

Personally I’d rather he live up to his soldier rep than his unlimited power potential. We’ve got plenty of uber powerful mutants waving their hands and performing feats. That stuff excites some people, but it bores me. I don’t read Cable for Superman. Or X-man.

Give me the guy who is a Level 7 fighting ability combatant wielding weapons and nerfed Jedi-like powers.

Yeah, like I said, im not saying turn him into X man but his potential is an important part of his lore. Even if its not used it is something that separates him from the other dudes with guns and metal arms. A lot of his story is about it, he was created because of it, thats one of the reason why the Askani took him, its the reason why hes the chosen one, why apoc took interest in him etc. Retconning thay theres nothing special about his powers and potential makes a lot of those stories nonsensical if you think about it

Edit: Now that I had vent my frustrations Im going back to my "just hope for the best" mode

Get in the X-Men 97 thread!

[Jackraow21]

Get in the X-Men 97 thread!

Just did! Whoo. Cable is on the team!!!

“Place at the table…”



Sorry. That’s a really dated GIF. Lol. Showing my age here.