Judgement Day (2022)

[Reigna]

This doesn’t show him being aggressive or radical as you stated though in my opinion. He was saying that society at large needs a change in its values and systems, but he wasn’t being aggressive about when he made those speeches. He sympathized with rioters yes, as he understood they who riot had nothing and what they had taken from them and saw fit to make the oppressor see how it felt to what was once yours taken, but he still acknowledged the best way forward was non-violence and he said the truth people have a breaking point. Though in his own words he never advocated for rioting. So in my view he wasn’t aggressive or radical sympathetic? Yes. Radical? Not in the least cause it’s not radical to ask for what is properly owed.

I mean, are most left wing demands actually radical or just fair demands such as universal healthcare, affordable housing, fair wages, end to police brutality, defunding the police and investing in undrserved communities...etc. they arent, they are reasonable justifiable demands that society should provide to all regardless of race gender sexual orientation... etc. But yet society doesnt and hence for these views to be realized what must happen?

"society at large needs a change in its values and systems"

And that in of itself is radical. If it weren't, children will learn about it in history in middle school instead of the sanitized I have a dream speech... oh and he won't have been killed by the FBI something his own family deeply believes.

[Covetous_One]

I mean, are most left wing demands actually radical or just fair demands such as universal healthcare, affordable housing, fair wages, end to police brutality, defunding the police and investing in undrserved communities...etc. they arent, they are reasonable justifiable demands that society should provide to all regardless of race gender sexual orientation... etc. But yet society doesnt and hence for these views to be realized what must happen?

"society at large needs a change in its values and systems"

And that in of itself is radical. If it weren't, children will learn about it in history in middle school instead of the sanitized I have a dream speech... woh and he won't have been killed by the FBI something his own family deeply believes.

Radical only to those who don’t want to lose power they have in the current system.

[ZuLuLu]

IMHO Xavier's (really MLK's) noble dream of peaceful coexistence is dead and buried.

The dream is still there, there are just changes to how it is implemented. Humans and mutants can still live together, they both still exist on the same planet , some still live in their birth countries if they what to.

The difference is that now the mutants just have their own country so they can give mutants who live in countries where they are persecuted and kill a safe place where they can live free but also be a power player in the world to protect mutants while still fighting to save humanity from other external threats.

Instead, you have a completely homogeneous nation-state that has basically set up a big magical Trump wall (mutant only portals) to keep everyone of other races (species?) out

First, a country that is made up from people from all over the world is far from homogeneous. One of the reason mutants like Apocalypse and Exodus were even on the QC is because they are powerful leaders within the mutant community who have different philosophies form Charles and giving them position of power allowed the entire mutant community to see all were welcomed besides that once strongly held differences.

Every country in the world have boarders and regulates who, when and how people can enter their country, for example a citizen of a foreign country who seeks to enter the United States, Canada or the EU generally must first obtain visa, to application includes a fee and the person must meets certain requirement or be rejected.

All mutants are citizens of Krakoa so they are free to enter and leave, non citizens (non mutants) have to get what amounts to a Visa (the flower) and can be granted residency if they are a family member of the mutants (Northstar's husband both lives on and work for Krakoa). These rules and regulations are not that different from the basic standard of most countries.

and the QC appears to be in the beginning phases of actively expanding their reach through extra-judicial paramilitary excursions and economic colonialism (Hellfire/East India Trading Company).

What? extra-judicial paramilitary excursions, is this about what Beast is doing that the QC didn't know the detail about ?

They are delivering and providing the world with miracle drugs for free, the Hellfire Company is only being use to get the drugs to countries that don't what to recognize Krakoa but still want access to the drugs.

Sorry folks. Mutants as a whole really don't sound too much like the good guys anymore.

The X-Men are heroes, not all mutants are heroes. There have always been mutants that were good bad and every thing in between.

If the standard you are using is that the all mutants are bad because their government did some questionable things, then all humans are also bad.

[Reigna]

Radical only to those who don’t want to lose power they have in the current system.

Erhm duuuh. Who do you think deems what is radical or not, the people who enjoy and benefit from the status quo.

[Reigna]

The dream is still there, there are just changes to how it is implemented. Humans and mutants can still live together, they both still exist on the same planet , some still live in their birth countries if they what to.

The difference is that now the mutants just have their own country so they can give mutants who live in countries where they are persecuted and kill a safe place where they can live free but also be a power player in the world to protect mutants while still fighting to save humanity from other external threats.



First, a country that is made up from people from all over the world is far from homogeneous. One of the reason mutants like Apocalypse and Exodus were even on the QC is because they are powerful leaders within the mutant community who have different philosophies form Charles and giving them position of power allowed the entire mutant community to see all were welcomed besides that once strongly held differences.

Every country in the world have boarders and regulates who, when and how people can enter their country, for example a citizen of a foreign country who seeks to enter the United States, Canada or the EU generally must first obtain visa, to application includes a fee and the person must meets certain requirement or be rejected.

All mutants are citizens of Krakoa so they are free to enter and leave, non citizens (non mutants) have to get what amounts to a Visa (the flower) and can be granted residency if they are a family member of the mutants (Northstar's husband both lives on and work for Krakoa). These rules and regulations are not that different from the basic standard of most countries.




What? extra-judicial paramilitary excursions, is this about what Beast is doing that the QC didn't know the detail about ?

They are delivering and providing the world with miracle drugs for free, the Hellfire Company is only being use to get the drugs to countries that don't what to recognize Krakoa but still want access to the drugs.



The X-Men are heroes, not all mutants are heroes. There have always been mutants that were good bad and every thing in between.

If the standard you are using is that the all mutants are bad because their government did some questionable things, then all humans are also bad.

Summed everything up perfectly, sadly many have said the same thing and these people will still not listen. Unless mutants go back to licking human boots and begging for their survival they are not the good guys.

[Sylarmax]

I mean, are most left wing demands actually radical or just fair demands such as universal healthcare, affordable housing, fair wages, end to police brutality, defunding the police and investing in undrserved communities...etc. they arent, they are reasonable justifiable demands that society should provide to all regardless of race gender sexual orientation... etc. But yet society doesnt and hence for these views to be realized what must happen?

"society at large needs a change in its values and systems"

And that in of itself is radical. If it weren't, children will learn about it in history in middle school instead of the sanitized I have a dream speech... oh and he won't have been killed by the FBI something his own family deeply believes.

Yes .... the left and the Marxists are right , the socialism and the left work so well , right ?
Look at Cuba and Venezuela (the latter ironically is a match in resources and before yo the socialists rose to power they lived very well) NOW is a SOME TRUE PARADISE right????
that its inhabitants prefer to die in the attempt to escape from there than to pass the needs that are seen thanks to socialism, Colombia will soon go the same way and Argentina too.


My God what to read, now the left and socialism are good... lol maybe in concept and not even... but in practice historically it doesn't work.

[Devaishwarya]

The dream is still there, there are just changes to how it is implemented. Humans and mutants can still live together, they both still exist on the same planet , some still live in their birth countries if they what to.

The difference is that now the mutants just have their own country so they can give mutants who live in countries where they are persecuted and kill a safe place where they can live free but also be a power player in the world to protect mutants while still fighting to save humanity from other external threats.



First, a country that is made up from people from all over the world is far from homogeneous. One of the reason mutants like Apocalypse and Exodus were even on the QC is because they are powerful leaders within the mutant community who have different philosophies form Charles and giving them position of power allowed the entire mutant community to see all were welcomed besides that once strongly held differences.

Every country in the world have boarders and regulates who, when and how people can enter their country, for example a citizen of a foreign country who seeks to enter the United States, Canada or the EU generally must first obtain visa, to application includes a fee and the person must meets certain requirement or be rejected.

All mutants are citizens of Krakoa so they are free to enter and leave, non citizens (non mutants) have to get what amounts to a Visa (the flower) and can be granted residency if they are a family member of the mutants (Northstar's husband both lives on and work for Krakoa). These rules and regulations are not that different from the basic standard of most countries.




What? extra-judicial paramilitary excursions, is this about what Beast is doing that the QC didn't know the detail about ?

They are delivering and providing the world with miracle drugs for free, the Hellfire Company is only being use to get the drugs to countries that don't what to recognize Krakoa but still want access to the drugs.



The X-Men are heroes, not all mutants are heroes. There have always been mutants that were good bad and every thing in between.

If the standard you are using is that the all mutants are bad because their government did some questionable things, then all humans are also bad.

Requoted for facts. And especially that last line.

[Reigna]

Yes .... the left and the Marxists are right , the socialism and the left work so well , right ?
Look at Cuba and Venezuela (the latter ironically is a match in resources and before yo the socialists rose to power they lived very well) NOW is a SOME TRUE PARADISE right????
that its inhabitants prefer to die in the attempt to escape from there than to pass the needs that are seen thanks to socialism, Colombia will soon go the same way and Argentina too.


My God what to read, now the left and socialism are good... lol maybe in concept and not even... but in practice historically it doesn't work.

This is a very sus post from a very sus user. EWWW IT Quoted me.

[Sylarmax]

No one who has lived at some point in their life the horrible and TRUE left, or is living in a country that really applies socialism will agree with you.... And I speak with measurable and verifiable facts, not with imaginary fanfics when in truth they do not know what real socialism is in practice .


I insist Cuba, Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia (Currently) are paradises since socialism arrived, right???
God forgive them they don't know what they're talking about lol.
X_x

They continue to think that REAL socialism is good, they only look bad, and they generate a deep annoyance to those of us who have lived in the past in a country that really applied socialism.
It seems unbelievable to see a post like that in a comics forum of people defending socialism when I bet they have no idea what it is like to experience it firsthand.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

And the xmen totally accept and love him and adore him because they are now besties with him. I recall emma saying he was a cancer they need to remove as soon as possible, but guess taste as her way of saying he was her friend. Same with everyone in the council even the likes of mystique and exodus seasoned villans who also see him as repulsive trash. They all love him too I guess.

So, it is okay to work with Hitler or David Duke, so long as you agree they’re scumbags? That sounds even worse to me if you know the people you are working beside are evil and choose to keep working with them. That whole, 'banality of evil' and 'all it takes for evil to triumph is good people doing nothing' thing.

The dream is still there, there are just changes to how it is implemented. Humans and mutants can still live together, they both still exist on the same planet , some still live in their birth countries if they what to.

First, a country that is made up from people from all over the world is far from homogeneous.

That is a very parochial view of heterogeneous society given that the express ‘othering’ is human vs. mutant. This is fiction, but the principle is no different than real life racism. How can you make a distinction between Krakoa and a fictional country made up of one single group (say white people) purposefully excluding a different group they believe to be inferior (say black people)? I don’t think you can because discrimination is wrong in an absolute sense. The two examples (to me) are equally racist. (Speciest?) And I want the X-Men that I grew to care about and connect with to be against racism in any form. They’re supposed to be the accepting ones who—as you note!—accept mutants from all over. To me, it lessens them to even work in and with a government that is expressly mutant supremacist.

My God what to read, now the left and socialism are good... lol maybe in concept and not even... but in practice historically it doesn't work.

I am as opposed to the corporatist oligarchy America has become as anyone else. But “socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ~Ronald Reagan

The fact that the Quiet Council resembles an immortal superpowered Politburo planning committee doesn't escape me...

[Saithor]

Raises eyebrow Crap, now I think the only one in the last few pages I can agree with might by Hybrid if they popped up.

[Sylarmax]

So, it is okay to work with Hitler or David Duke, so long as you agree they’re scumbags? That sounds even worse to me if you know the people you are working beside are evil and choose to keep working with them. That whole, 'banality of evil' and 'all it takes for evil to triumph is good people doing nothing' thing.



That is a very parochial view of heterogeneous society given that the express ‘othering’ is human vs. mutant. This is fiction, but the principle is no different than real life racism. How can you make a distinction between Krakoa and a fictional country made up of one single group (say white people) purposefully excluding a different group they believe to be inferior (say black people)? I don’t think you can because discrimination is wrong in an absolute sense. The two examples (to me) are equally racist. (Speciest?) And I want the X-Men that I grew to care about and connect with to be against racism in any form. They’re supposed to be the accepting ones who—as you note!—accept mutants from all over. To me, it lessens them to even work in and with a government that is expressly mutant supremacist.



I am as opposed to the corporatist oligarchy America has become as anyone else. But “socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ~Ronald Reagan

The fact that the Quiet Council resembles an immortal superpowered Politburo planning committee doesn't escape me...

Bravo AGREED WITH YOU.


Completely agree with what you say, really for those who have never lived in a country where REAL socialism was applied, it is easy to give an opinion within their ignorance regarding the subject, but to defend it when that does not work?
WTF... it's not very difficult to check the countries where socialism was really applied, and compare what they were before with the hell they became.


Marxist socialisms is basically the rich can't be rich, so we screw you or expropriate you so you're not rich and the poor stay poor, and what used to work doesn't work anymore, that's real socialism in REAL practice.
That's why seeing people who defend it and more without really knowing is absurd.

[JB]

The dream is still there, there are just changes to how it is implemented. Humans and mutants can still live together, they both still exist on the same planet , some still live in their birth countries if they what to.

The difference is that now the mutants just have their own country so they can give mutants who live in countries where they are persecuted and kill a safe place where they can live free but also be a power player in the world to protect mutants while still fighting to save humanity from other external threats.



First, a country that is made up from people from all over the world is far from homogeneous. One of the reason mutants like Apocalypse and Exodus were even on the QC is because they are powerful leaders within the mutant community who have different philosophies form Charles and giving them position of power allowed the entire mutant community to see all were welcomed besides that once strongly held differences.

Every country in the world have boarders and regulates who, when and how people can enter their country, for example a citizen of a foreign country who seeks to enter the United States, Canada or the EU generally must first obtain visa, to application includes a fee and the person must meets certain requirement or be rejected.

All mutants are citizens of Krakoa so they are free to enter and leave, non citizens (non mutants) have to get what amounts to a Visa (the flower) and can be granted residency if they are a family member of the mutants (Northstar's husband both lives on and work for Krakoa). These rules and regulations are not that different from the basic standard of most countries.




What? extra-judicial paramilitary excursions, is this about what Beast is doing that the QC didn't know the detail about ?

They are delivering and providing the world with miracle drugs for free, the Hellfire Company is only being use to get the drugs to countries that don't what to recognize Krakoa but still want access to the drugs.



The X-Men are heroes, not all mutants are heroes. There have always been mutants that were good bad and every thing in between.

If the standard you are using is that the all mutants are bad because their government did some questionable things, then all humans are also bad.

Requoted for facts. And especially that last line.

Co-signed.

If mutants were able to live in harmony with humanity without the risk of being hunted and killed en masse, Krakoa wouldn't be needed. The idea that they're supposed to open up their infant nation to the rest of the world is absurd, especially when Cyclops, Storm and others rescued a large group of mutant children being tortured shortly after the formation of Krakoa.

And yes, having the villains on the island and participating is a very provocative idea by design. But for the time being at least humanity doesn't have to worry about those villains and some of them are trying to rehabilitate.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

Co-signed.

If mutants were able to live in harmony with humanity without the risk of being hunted and killed en masse, Krakoa wouldn't be needed. The idea that they're supposed to open up their infant nation to the rest of the world is absurd, especially when Cyclops, Storm and others rescued a large group of mutant children being tortured shortly after the formation of Krakoa.

This sounds like precisely the argument for the formation of Israel. The divergence point is that Israel didn't dispel all the Arabs and other non-Jews after the 1948 War, whereas a Krakoan Israel would be a homeland ONLY for people of the Jewish faith.

And yes, having the villains on the island and participating is a very provocative idea by design. But for the time being at least humanity doesn't have to worry about those villains and some of them are trying to rehabilitate.

This point I tend to agree with from the mutant side, both that it is provocative by design and offers a chance to rehabilitate. But from the humanity side, I can see it as mutant supremacy. I can also see the victims of Sinister and the other mutant terrorists feeling like Krakoa has become something of a Brazil/Argentina harboring Nazis after WWII or Afghanistan harboring al Qaeda post-9/11. Those victims (and their governments) likely view the amnesty very differently than the mutants, and I would assume that causes some good deal of conflict in foreign relations.

[JB]

This sounds like precisely the argument for the formation of Israel. The divergence point is that Israel didn't dispel all the Arabs and other non-Jews after the 1948 War, whereas a Krakoan Israel would be a homeland ONLY for people of the Jewish faith.

This point I tend to agree with from the mutant side, both that it is provocative by design and offers a chance to rehabilitate. But from the humanity side, I can see it as mutant supremacy. I can also see the victims of Sinister and the other mutant terrorists feeling like Krakoa has become something of a Brazil/Argentina harboring Nazis after WWII or Afghanistan harboring al Qaeda post-9/11. Those victims (and their governments) likely view the amnesty very differently than the mutants, and I would assume that causes some good deal of conflict in foreign relations.

Perhaps another poster will want to address these points, I've just never been one to try to equate real world with the comics. But yes certainly there would be victims of Sinister and other villains that view what's happening as unjust and wrong. But I don't think that's the responsibility of the mutants to address when they're still rescuing mutants being rounded up and killed, and trying to bring back those that have been murdered which will take decades.

I've always been of the opinion that once they become stable enough then perhaps they can then look at opening their borders if they wish, perhaps for tourism and strengthening relations.
This year's Hellfire Gala has the very theme of their growing relationship with humanity, and the Avengers and other heroes are honored guests. And then we have the Eternals trying to massacre them right around the corner.