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  1. #61
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    To me it's modern Batman's flaws and issues that make him non-virtuous. His driving force is "Someone hurt me when i was a kid, I'll hurt them and everyone like them back". His belief is that his ends always justify his means. Torture his teammates- if it gets the job done Bruce is game. If you try to kill the Joker. Bruce'll stop you. If Bruce decides to kill the Joker, well that is different. Batman is the lowest common denominator- the guy who does what we all want to do- hurt those who hurt us. He doesn't ask you to be any better than you are.

    I'll give you Spider-man is virtuous but he's the virtuous people like- the kind with feet of clay. He is the guy who strived to do good, but fails as often as he succeeds. He'll protect the innocent- but only if Aunt may doesn't need him at home. He needed crime to personally touch him to motivate his heroism. His first instinct with his powers was to earn himself some money. His go-to tactic is to throw his costume in the trash when things get hard.



    And that is what I am talking about. people today treat morality or a code of ethics as something disposable. They no longer want to see someone better than themselves and emulate it, they instead see someone better than themselves and want to tear it down. It's too hard to actually have to live up to our ideals- so we need stories that show us that no one can live up to their ideals. We want heroes who are as screwed up as we are so we don't have to try. We don't want a Superman to show us how to solve our problems, we want a failed Superman to reassure us that even if we were far more powerful we'd still be just as base and corrupt so there is no need to put forth effort at doing good.
    A man who doesn't need to make choices doesn't inspire anybody.Nor is he ideal.The so called ideal you are talking about doesn't make choices.Cause he is a robot,That's programmed with some dumb imperative.He is following that imperative without truly understanding the meaning of and need for it.

    The church or american civil religion might have taught people lack of "sin" is virtue.Well,i beg to disagree.

    Batman teaches you justice by showing you what vengeance does to you.Spiderman teaches you altruism and responsibilities by showing you the fall of the selfishness and irresponsibile behaviour.They aren't robots.People fall short of ideals.It's ok.All you need to do is get back up and walk.Morality shouldn't be put in a pedastal as to cause self loathing by constantly comparing yourself to a dumb perfect person imaginary or otherwise.Ideals Don't mean perfection.when you mean ideal it perfection from what i gather.Perfection,utopia,heaven..etc are dumb concepts.

    I am happy getting better and being better version of myself.i don't need superman.That doesn't mean i have no ideal.I choose freedom as my ideal.Moreover, i don't want superman failed or successful.I want superman to do the right thing for its own reason.And Actually,do it.Yes,i want image superman torn down in a sense.I won't deny that.why? Cause i believe that's the opposite of what a superman should be.And cause i like characters not being written to emphatically decide morality for others.That's the kinda power that leads to violence.flight,strength..etc those aren't.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-10-2022 at 03:36 AM.
    "People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"

  2. #62
    Fantastic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    It's not that people think he's a fascist. It's ironically his modern writers attempts to keep him neutral on all things that makes it easy for people to project whatever attitudes they want onto him.
    Calling Superman, a fascist is crazy!! It seems some people these days don't like Superman. Their doing everything they can do to destroy him. It's a shame!! That's where we are today, destroying a good man.
    Last edited by lotchj; 01-29-2022 at 10:24 PM.

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