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  1. #16
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossofbam View Post
    Right on. These days, Guy should be written like this:

    Attachment 116652
    Attachment 116653
    Yeah. He's still being kind of a pushy ******* (cutting her off, imposing a date on her) but it's being treated more like "Guy's a well-meaning blockhead" instead of "Guy is an abusive monster." When they actually have that date later, it goes poorly but (if memory served) they both wanted to work it out. Oh well. At least she's a femme fatale now I guess?

    You know, NOT Tora.
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    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  2. #17
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    I would get all the complaints if this was, say, Justice League #70-whatever, an in-continuity story that affects the ongoing DC universe.
    But, it's not. It's King writing a 12 issue DOA-heavily inspired (sure, you can say "ripped off", you be you) noir story. And everyone is playing a role.
    I mean, the solicits for issue #6 reference a death of a JLI'er. Does anyone really think that will carry over to the "main universe"?

    I cut my teeth on the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire JLI book, I could re-read it until forever. It's Top 5 for me, all time, in my middle-agedness. I just don't see getting all that worked up about how he's writing the characters here. But, that is just my opinion, and I don't begrudge anyone else holding to their opinions. I just don't get it.

  3. #18
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbp1972 View Post
    I would get all the complaints if this was, say, Justice League #70-whatever, an in-continuity story that affects the ongoing DC universe.
    But, it's not. It's King writing a 12 issue DOA-heavily inspired (sure, you can say "ripped off", you be you) noir story. And everyone is playing a role.
    I mean, the solicits for issue #6 reference a death of a JLI'er. Does anyone really think that will carry over to the "main universe"?

    I cut my teeth on the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire JLI book, I could re-read it until forever. It's Top 5 for me, all time, in my middle-agedness. I just don't see getting all that worked up about how he's writing the characters here. But, that is just my opinion, and I don't begrudge anyone else holding to their opinions. I just don't get it.
    The concern comes down to a good number of these characters don't show up enough to take the bullet in stride. This book may become the touchstone for Ice's character thing forward, for example, even if it's not in continuity because she just hasn't done anything else in years.

    Same with Guy and Tora's relationship. Since New 52, they paint it pretty much as only having been net-awful so more nails in it's coffin (especially high profile ones) don't help.

    Mister Miracle is supposedly not continuity, but there's no way it doesn't influence the character going forward, you know?

    You mention reading JLI, which I did and dug as well, but you're asking most readers to go back 40 years when most only go back a handful. If they keep portraying Tora and Ice's time together as, well, not what it was and change Guy into a big abusive monster to her, then that's just what he's going to be.

    King is basically just playing contrarian in his work when he's not just lifting wholesale from screenplays at this point. Reading the body of his work, he really doesn't care about characterization much. I get it when characters don't get much use and just exist as a stock identity, but Tora and Guy were individually more than that and he just used them as noir archetypes because he doesn't seem to care.

    I don't understand it. Superheroes endure because people form connections to the people with the power set generally, and that's what keeps them published, but he seems to think of them at nothing more than pawns to push a plot. The whole reason they're around 80 years later is because people like them as characters. But here we are. Beautiful art or no, I'm probably out after this one.

    King usually works with artists I love so much I'll buy anything they're in (and Smallwood is proving himself to be that caliber of artist), but this is quickly becoming unbearable to read and I may just duck out. I look forward to it being Evil Ice framing Fire because she's still evil or something.
    Last edited by Robanker; 12-29-2021 at 01:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
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    Truer words never spoken.

  4. #19
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'm at an actual loss. I knew he was just ripping off DoA like he is True Grit for Supergirl, and Ice as a sultry femme fatale should have clued me in he doesn't get these characters at all, but wow that Guy Gardner.
    What movie does "DoA" stand for?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    What movie does "DoA" stand for?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.O.A._(1950_film)

  6. #21
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    Loved how King used Ice's uber racist origin as part of the story. Real nice, sigh...

  7. #22
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Loved how King used Ice's uber racist origin as part of the story. Real nice, sigh...
    Yeah that sucks. The only way Tora comes out of this resembling herself is if she's actually J'onn framing her this whole time... Which still sucks, just not for her
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  8. #23
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossofbam View Post
    Oh I thought it was an acronym for the real title. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Loved how King used Ice's uber racist origin as part of the story. Real nice, sigh...
    Which one are you talking about? He uses two origins here.

  9. #24
    StRaNgE Member! Eskana's Avatar
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    Once again- and actually as seems to be usual in King's books- the art is fantastic, but the characterizations are at the very least off, if not way off base.

    Christopher Chance, I can't speak to, not having been aware of him before this. But he definitely plays well into the noir detective type. As far as typing the JLI characters as noir characters, this works great. But only if you're okay with them acting out of character.

    So far, we've had Ice as the sweet innocent woman asking for his help or trying to protect someone. That would totally be Ice... but Chance seems to really believe she's hiding something and she's secretly violent. Now, Tora has gone bad before (right before she died, and then again when she lost control in Generation Lost,) but I really can't see her straight-up killing someone in cold blood.

    I feel like Guy was written like classic Guy, which is fine, but my problem is he is evidently calling Ice names because he keeps getting bleeped out. Guy would do a lot of things, but he wouldn't disrespect Tora like that. Especially if he feels like she's still "his girl."

    Booster was written like King always writes Booster... an idiot. A part of me hopes that one day King will turn this all around to reveal that it's all an act, but I don't think King understands that part of Booster and will just continue making him look like an idiot. I am somewhat afraid of how the meeting with Ted will go next issue.


    However, I did appreciate how King seemed to understand that the JLI, more so than other teams, is a family. They're friends, who would hang out with each other even off the clock.

    I just hope he doesn't make this family a bunch of killers.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskana View Post
    Booster was written like King always writes Booster... an idiot. A part of me hopes that one day King will turn this all around to reveal that it's all an act, but I don't think King understands that part of Booster and will just continue making him look like an idiot. I am somewhat afraid of how the meeting with Ted will go next issue.
    The only way I see this happening is if King reveals Booster is a time-traveling terminator who goes back to the past to screw everything up for everyone because he's so miserable in the future.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Oh I thought it was an acronym for the real title. Thanks.



    Which one are you talking about? He uses two origins here.
    No, he uses her racist one. Where she killed her family and then convinced herself of a delusional story

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    No, he uses her racist one. Where she killed her family and then convinced herself of a delusional story
    Which must have been a mass delusion among the entire justice league because they were all there to meet her family…and that storyline is where Tora was powered up. The new backstory makes no sense.


  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    No, he uses her racist one. Where she killed her family and then convinced herself of a delusional story
    How is that racist?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbp1972 View Post
    I would get all the complaints if this was, say, Justice League #70-whatever, an in-continuity story that affects the ongoing DC universe.
    But, it's not. It's King writing a 12 issue DOA-heavily inspired (sure, you can say "ripped off", you be you) noir story. And everyone is playing a role.
    I mean, the solicits for issue #6 reference a death of a JLI'er. Does anyone really think that will carry over to the "main universe"?

    I cut my teeth on the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire JLI book, I could re-read it until forever. It's Top 5 for me, all time, in my middle-agedness. I just don't see getting all that worked up about how he's writing the characters here. But, that is just my opinion, and I don't begrudge anyone else holding to their opinions. I just don't get it.
    I'm with you here. Don't really get why people get bent out of shape with King's writing here especially knowing: (1) It's King and history has proven he writes/ approaches stories in a particular manner; and (2) it's an Elseworld tale.

    The major issue people have is "[x] is not written in character". But I don't think it's really to be expected. That said, I do think they are written in character (the underlying base) albeit, an (extremely?) exagerrated version of them. Also, as some others have pointed out, he's just telling a specific story (D.O.A) using popular characters where everyone is playing a (stereotypical) role.

    As I often say to people, if you continue reading it, TRY to enjoy it for what it is as opposed to what you think/feel it "should" be.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossofbam View Post
    So....Crank without Jason Statham and presumably also without good fight and chase scenes.

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