ASM 83 Review and Spoilers (+ Timeless 1) -- Ben, wherefore art thou?

[Huntsman Spider]

Remember Kaine’s precognitive spider sense from the 90s?

I loved all his original heightened versions of Peter’s powers.

Come back soon, Kaine.

I'm hoping he has a role in Beyond somewhere, because you'd think after all the bad blood he had with Ben over Ben's actions during The Clone Conspiracy, he'd have something to say about Ben acting as Spider-Man again.

[Pav]

Remember Kaine’s precognitive spider sense from the 90s?

I loved all his original heightened versions of Peter’s powers.

Come back soon, Kaine.

I appreciate the development that Kaine has had over the years, but.

Original costume?
Original powers?

That's Kaine at his coolest.

-Pav, who loves FrankenSpider...

[Chris0013]

As far as I know, Peter only kinda introduced Teresa to aunt May off-screen (And didn't say anything about her being his sister), and I don't remember any dialogue pointing out that MJ is aware of Teresa.

A throwaway line in the 2099 arc has her pointing out that cellphones aren't safe to use, so it's possible she doesn't have one at all, so contacting her would be more complicated.

At best, we could have aunt May contacting her, but again, doubt Teresa has a cellphone, and it doesn't seem like Peter's friends and family are aware of what happened to him considering that so far we didn't see visits from characters like Randy, Robbie, JJ, Betty, aunt Anna, Liz, Ned visiting (Ned and Betty could be understandable if Beyond was being made before Spencer defined what's up with them) and whoever else I forgot, so Teresa not being there isn't far fetched.

If I am remembering this correctly it was right before MJ went to work on the film with Mysterio...if not out right stated it was implied that MJ knew about her being Pete's sister and that Teresa was not ready to let May know.

[Lukmendes]

If I am remembering this correctly it was right before MJ went to work on the film with Mysterio...if not out right stated it was implied that MJ knew about her being Pete's sister and that Teresa was not ready to let May know.

Confirmed here, and you're right:



(ASM#29 vol 5)

Now the question is if MJ can even contact Teresa, 'cause this same issue has Teresa mentioning she'll receive a call, so she has a cellphone but doesn't use it to talk to Peter if she needs his help.

And again, this whole thing about Peter being hospitalized is weird, 'cause it seems nobody besides MJ, aunt May, Felicia and Cap know, MJ and aunt May only know because Ben contacted them, and Felicia knows because... Because, and Cap only knows because he just saved Peter in ASM#83, but overall, none of Peter's friends seem to be aware of this, or other heroes if Miles is any hint, so Teresa not being around only makes sense because MJ and aunt May are not contacting anyone else for bizarre reasons lol.

They wouldn't even need to put too much importance in her or Peter's friends, just have a throwaway line at least to indicate they know, or just have them visiting for a panel and then leaving... Anything at all would be less weird than the current situation lol.

[Chris0013]

Confirmed here, and you're right:



(ASM#29 vol 5)

Now the question is if MJ can even contact Teresa, 'cause this same issue has Teresa mentioning she'll receive a call, so she has a cellphone but doesn't use it to talk to Peter if she needs his help.

And again, this whole thing about Peter being hospitalized is weird, 'cause it seems nobody besides MJ, aunt May, Felicia and Cap know, MJ and aunt May only know because Ben contacted them, and Felicia knows because... Because, and Cap only knows because he just saved Peter in ASM#83, but overall, none of Peter's friends seem to be aware of this, or other heroes if Miles is any hint, so Teresa not being around only makes sense because MJ and aunt May are not contacting anyone else for bizarre reasons lol.

They wouldn't even need to put too much importance in her or Peter's friends, just have a throwaway line at least to indicate they know, or just have them visiting for a panel and then leaving... Anything at all would be less weird than the current situation lol.

I would think there would be some emergency way to do so. Old School like a voice mail set up that a message could be left and checked.

[Reilly]

I appreciate the development that Kaine has had over the years, but.

Original costume?
Original powers?

That's Kaine at his coolest.

-Pav, who loves FrankenSpider...

Same here. Scarlet Spider Kaine is cool but villain Kaine is the best!

[HypnoHustler]

Same here. Scarlet Spider Kaine is cool but villain Kaine is the best!

No, I hate character regression. Especially reformed villains who became heroes becoming villains again. Keep Kaine good, and if people want to read about him being a bad guy again just tell some untold stories.

[Reilly]

No, I hate character regression. Especially reformed villains who became heroes becoming villains again. Keep Kaine good, and if people want to read about him being a bad guy again just tell some untold stories.

I didn't said I want him to be a villain again. I just find his villain persona more interesting to me than yet another edgy Spider-Man. But I like him, his solo run is one of my fav (the ending sucks though).

[Pav]

No, I hate character regression. Especially reformed villains who became heroes becoming villains again. Keep Kaine good, and if people want to read about him being a bad guy again just tell some untold stories.

I don't want character regression. What I really want to see is Kaine continuing his attempts to be a good man despite the return of his degeneration (and messed up powers). And I want to see Ben trying to be a brother to him, even when it's toughest.

-Pav, who feels Ben and Kaine need more differentiation...

[MisterC]

I appreciate the development that Kaine has had over the years, but.

Original costume?
Original powers?

That's Kaine at his coolest.

-Pav, who loves FrankenSpider...

Maybe now with Ben and Peter back, they can have Kaine suffer one final bout of degeneration that instead of killing or hurting him, maybe gives him a small (but badass) looking degeneration scar but also affects him physically by making him muscularly bigger than Ben/Pete and restoring some of his villain powers. Like the Mark of Kaine instead of being a disfiguring burn can be reimagined into something like the Venom Blast. Or have Kaine's fighting style evolve to use Mark of Kaine palm strikes. And adding back some of the precognitive properties of his spider sense. And the final cherry, have this last bit of degen affected by all the stuff Kaine has been through like the anti venom goop and the other and have him learn his body has been so altered on a physical level from all this, he's no longer a perfect DNA match to Peter.

Then you take his base Scarlet Spider outfit, open the top of the cowl to expose his hair. Add some degeneration-web design reminiscencent of his first suit and bring the long hair back with a beard, occasional man-bun. Basically make Kaine Daddy.

I feel like Kaine's evolution should have him take a step back and see how much he has compared to how little he ever thought he deserved and maybe pull the stick out of his webshooter and grow a little more.

[Lukmendes]

Maybe now with Ben and Peter back, they can have Kaine suffer one final bout of degeneration that instead of killing or hurting him, maybe gives him a small (but badass) looking degeneration scar but also affects him physically by making him muscularly bigger than Ben/Pete and restoring some of his villain powers. Like the Mark of Kaine instead of being a disfiguring burn can be reimagined into something like the Venom Blast.

I don't think he lost the mark of Kaine at all, he used it to shave in the first issue of his Scarlet Spider comic:



Mark of Kaine is just an amplified use of his wall crawling powers, he probably just has no more reasons to use it (The power's just glorified torture, generally a punch in the face is just as effective).

Also, re-imagining it to be like Venom Blast would just make him look more redundant, not to mention lazy.

[MisterC]

I don't think he lost the mark of Kaine at all, he used it to shave in the first issue of his Scarlet Spider comic:



Mark of Kaine is just an amplified use of his wall crawling powers, he probably just has no more reasons to use it (The power's just glorified torture, generally a punch in the face is just as effective).

Also, re-imagining it to be like Venom Blast would just make him look more redundant, not to mention lazy.

I never cared for Kaine's hacky Scarlet Spider books. Not much value in those stories imo. Or the way the modern crop of Spidey writers reimagined the Mark of Kaine as something accomplishable by any Spider-Person when Kaine's twisted powers were always written as a side effects of his degeneration.

As for the Venom Blast, I think finding a cool way for Kaine to use the Mark without permanently disfiguring people. I didn't mean to copy it, except that y'know, giving Kaine a cool unique power only he can use that isn't rooted in all that Other crap would be additive to his character, who is currently stuck in limbo

The character has to move on from the stagnation his Scarlet Spider run forced on him. The hard ass extra violent version of the hero is high tier snores and that it's all we have gotten for character likely contributed to cooldown.

I know I don't wanna see him without some major changes

[Lukmendes]

I never cared for Kaine's hacky Scarlet Spider books. Not much value in those stories imo. Or the way the modern crop of Spidey writers reimagined the Mark of Kaine as something accomplishable by any Spider-Person when Kaine's twisted powers were always written as a side effects of his degeneration.

I only remember Spidey using something like mark of Kaine against Sasha, even then, it was just a very basic "Grab, and don't let go", which's just a logical and brutal use of his powers, but doesn't have mark of Kaine's extra stuff.

As for the Venom Blast, I think finding a cool way for Kaine to use the Mark without permanently disfiguring people. I didn't mean to copy it, except that y'know, giving Kaine a cool unique power only he can use that isn't rooted in all that Other crap would be additive to his character, who is currently stuck in limbo

Again, it's basically a power for torture and brutality, they'd need to change its very nature for it to be usable outside of Kaine hating someone a lot.

Though I guess it could have applications on stuff like machines or weapons if he for some reason can't just punch 'em, but not against people.

The character has to move on from the stagnation his Scarlet Spider run forced on him. The hard ass extra violent version of the hero is high tier snores and that it's all we have gotten for character likely contributed to cooldown.

I know I don't wanna see him without some major changes

Eh, we won't agree on that, 90's Kaine was pretty wack who only occasionally had cool moments for me, prefer the way Scarlet Spider characterized him.

[Huntsman Spider]

I only remember Spidey using something like mark of Kaine against Sasha, even then, it was just a very basic "Grab, and don't let go", which's just a logical and brutal use of his powers, but doesn't have mark of Kaine's extra stuff.



Again, it's basically a power for torture and brutality, they'd need to change its very nature for it to be usable outside of Kaine hating someone a lot.

Though I guess it could have applications on stuff like machines or weapons if he for some reason can't just punch 'em, but not against people.



Eh, we won't agree on that, 90's Kaine was pretty wack who only occasionally had cool moments for me, prefer the way Scarlet Spider characterized him.

He also used it earlier against Norman Osborn in the Dark Reign tie-in arc "American Son," after Norman gloated to Spidey about how he was going to sacrifice Harry, his own son and Peter's best friend, after having already seduced and impregnated Harry's wife-to-be Lily Hollister, a.k.a. the then-latest Goblin villain Menace, and then play the grieving father to win sympathy from the public and media that he would exploit as a cover to acquire even more power, which he would go on to use for even more horrific acts.

[Pav]

I never cared for Kaine's hacky Scarlet Spider books. Not much value in those stories imo. Or the way the modern crop of Spidey writers reimagined the Mark of Kaine as something accomplishable by any Spider-Person when Kaine's twisted powers were always written as a side effects of his degeneration.

Good point.

Originally, Kaine's use of his Mark left the same web-like scarring that he had due to clone degeneration. But it didn't necessarily kill the recipient -- Jacob Raven can attest to that.

Nevertheless, it was presented as something only Kaine could do. It wasn't just ripping someone's skin off.

Of course, I don't think they ever REALLY explained how it did work.

-Pav, who can piece two and two together...