World's Greatest Comic: The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2022

[CaptCleghorn]

spoilers:

Good issue, but I hated the end. I’ve actually enjoyed most of Slott’s run… except for his complete disassembling of the Future Foundation. They’re all gone now. They were a great supporting cast and weren’t hurting anyone. He should have just let them continue to be there, even if they weren’t in the spotlight. Ugh.

end of spoilers

Seriously. I can understand why the Foundation couldn't really get all the space they should have as supporting characters, but the influx of new attitudes and ideas have potential with a long running franchise like FF. Lee and Kirby managed to keep many of the ideas created in their fantastic fun around for a few issues making it seem like the FF really was part of a large cast of characters.

[CaptCleghorn]

I've realized that my problem Slott's FF is that he writes like it's the bronze age. Which explains why Johnny is so immature and Sue and Val are practically non-existent.

It's always a weird feeling when something like that hits you. You think it's an epiphany when it's been obvious all along. I agree on your assessment of Slott. There are some aspects he is quite good on, but his unfortunate handling of some of the cast is disappointing. Bronze of even Silver Age styling can be done, but characterization needs to be modern and up to date. Some writers have done an incredible job of building Sue up, in both personality and powers. The ubiquitous version of Sue looking fearful with a hand in front of her face on Silver Age covers needs to go away forever. As for Johnny, it's a damn shame that every writer has wound him back to a kid and then matured him again. He's freaking 30 years old. The book has Franklin as a teenage boy for this stuff now.

[AJpyro]

spoilers:

Good issue, but I hated the end. I’ve actually enjoyed most of Slott’s run… except for his complete disassembling of the Future Foundation. They’re all gone now. They were a great supporting cast and weren’t hurting anyone. He should have just let them continue to be there, even if they weren’t in the spotlight. Ugh.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I was about to ask how yall felt about Slott's run but the FF being dismantled is a big NO from me.

end of spoilers

Anyway, I still look at the Hickman stuff with fondness and gonna break out the Matt Fraction FF issues since they're still a mystery to me.

Aside from the Lee/Kirby big trades I just got, what are some quick and easy runs to dive into?

[CaptCleghorn]

spoilers:

I was about to ask how yall felt about Slott's run but the FF being dismantled is a big NO from me.

end of spoilers

Anyway, I still look at the Hickman stuff with fondness and gonna break out the Matt Fraction FF issues since they're still a mystery to me.

Aside from the Lee/Kirby big trades I just got, what are some quick and easy runs to dive into?

The Lee/Kirby heyday was issues 36 - 67. There was very little you needed to understand these issues and a cursory knowledge of the FF is enough to get you acclimated fully. Include Annuals 3-5 as well.

[Crimz]

It's always a weird feeling when something like that hits you. You think it's an epiphany when it's been obvious all along. I agree on your assessment of Slott. There are some aspects he is quite good on, but his unfortunate handling of some of the cast is disappointing. Bronze of even Silver Age styling can be done, but characterization needs to be modern and up to date. Some writers have done an incredible job of building Sue up, in both personality and powers. The ubiquitous version of Sue looking fearful with a hand in front of her face on Silver Age covers needs to go away forever. As for Johnny, it's a damn shame that every writer has wound him back to a kid and then matured him again. He's freaking 30 years old. The book has Franklin as a teenage boy for this stuff now.

Johnny is in his weird situation. When comic writers want to write someone as having grown up they usually have them settling down with someone and having kids. Which is a pretty narrow-minded view of maturity. For Johnny that will not happen (at least not permanently) because Marvel views this as aging the characters too much plus it doesn't really suit Johnny to be married with kids imo.

The other way to mature him is to give him responsibilities like a job, rent, bills, etc. However, with how the Fantastic Four are set-up he never had to worry about these things. This leaves very few paths to show Johnny maturing.

You want him settling down because you already have 2 married couples with kids and it limits his story potential. You also can't give him the usual adult responsibilities because the FF all live together.

So what do you do?

I think in the FF book, he might never grow up unfortunately. Too many things are preventing that from happening in a permanent way and I don't know the solution.

[CaptCleghorn]

Johnny is in his weird situation. When comic writers want to write someone as having grown up they usually have them settling down with someone and having kids. Which is a pretty narrow-minded view of maturity. For Johnny that will not happen (at least not permanently) because Marvel views this as aging the characters too much plus it doesn't really suit Johnny to be married with kids imo.

The other way to mature him is to give him responsibilities like a job, rent, bills, etc. However, with how the Fantastic Four are set-up he never had to worry about these things. This leaves very few paths to show Johnny maturing.

You want him settling down because you already have 2 married couples with kids and it limits his story potential. You also can't give him the usual adult responsibilities because the FF all live together.

So what do you do?

I think in the FF book, he might never grow up unfortunately. Too many things are preventing that from happening in a permanent way and I don't know the solution.

As you say, growing Johnny up is difficult to display. But Marvel can eliminate a lot of the childish behavior. Sure, he can be a grown-up kid, but with hobbies and some activities. His childish behavior and actions need to stop, at least for the most part. He shouldn't be acting like the kid who flew off in a tantrum back in FF 3, but he is. One would hope 60 years of development would have some effect.

[AJpyro]

For "growing up" Johnny: why not get him a mini-series outside of New York?

Like a year on his own somewhere on Earth or on another planet?

[Oberon]

But every once in a while we see the Torch/Spidey friendship rekindled and they both have an interplay that revolves around fun, jokes, immaturity etc.

So making Johnny grow up forgets that. People can still be goofy or funny though mature. Where is the good writing for this.

[danielsan52]

For "growing up" Johnny: why not get him a mini-series outside of New York?

Like a year on his own somewhere on Earth or on another planet?

A solo with him out doing his own thing would be great ! Have a former member takes his place for a while.

[Force de Phenix]

[Chris0013]

Honestly...when Johnny does get fixed...I would not mind him keeping the ability to burn in space/underwater gimmick

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

spoilers:

I was about to ask how yall felt about Slott's run but the FF being dismantled is a big NO from me.

end of spoilers

Anyway, I still look at the Hickman stuff with fondness and gonna break out the Matt Fraction FF issues since they're still a mystery to me.

Aside from the Lee/Kirby big trades I just got, what are some quick and easy runs to dive into?

I would say post-Byrne stuff by Roger Stern, Steve Englehart, and Walt Simonson.
#296-328.
Ignore 329-333. It's...bad.
#334-354.
Most of these should be in Epic Collections, like FF Epics #17, 18, 20 and 21. (Think they're still mapping out Vol. 19.)
If they get too pricey, you should be able to pick up the Simonson trades that came out years ago.
I firmly stand in the Claremont camp of good FF runs too. If you get over the fact that he was an X-Men writer 17 years, used a few mutant-related guest stars in the first dozen issues, you'll love his stuff after issue #12. I believe he was on a roll before he was yanked to start up X-Treme X-Men.

[Thundershot]

Oh my God. I forgot all about that pinup. I think it was from an Unlimited or something. Not sure what they did with Sue’s costume… and the fact that Medusa’s boobs look weird. And they all have Liefeld mouths. Let’s not forget Sue’s warped left leg. She looks like one of the Technet got to her (Waxworks?).

[Ravin' Ray]

For "growing up" Johnny: why not get him a mini-series outside of New York?

If Slott has no short-term plans for the Fantastix, he can go and mentor them.

Like a year on his own somewhere on Earth or on another planet?

Give Franklin back his powers, return the Heroes Reborn Earth back to its Counter Earth position where Doom displaced it, then help Crystal and the Royal Inhuman family rule the restored Inhuman race and restore order to rest of the planet.

[Crimz]

This Johnny Storm power crisis should have him interact with Bobby Drake more. Who better to help you cool down than the guy with omega-level ice powers?

The Ultimate universe dynamic of Johnny, Peter, and Bobby was really great and should be used in 616 too. The OG teen heroes being really good friends.