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  1. #616
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    You don't know that they won't be, they do have a tie-in.
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  2. #617
    Spectacular Member CitizenXXX's Avatar
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    Reckoning War was the rare type of event that absolutely needed tie-ins. Or at least it should have been longer. It is quite large and voluminous, touching on different parts of mythology. I personally would like to see more action in Asgard - Heralds of Galactus deserve to be more deeply involved, I would like to see more of Johnny's adventures in space, how he united all the heroes and how they fought all these space villains, I would like to see more events on Earth and how kids protect the Baxter Building, and more.
    But unfortunately, for some reason, Slott was very limited and this whole event turned out to be very torn, poorly folding into a single picture, and a lot of things just happen behind the scenes or in a very strong rush. The villains are faceless, they just are, no real stakes - the heroes have already defeated everyone in space, saving Uatu was no problem, and of course the Four will escape the trap in the Barrens because it has to be. Doom's story arc looks very drawn in, like it's the final Deus ex machina.

    I don't know what to think about all this.

  3. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenXXX View Post
    Reckoning War was the rare type of event that absolutely needed tie-ins. Or at least it should have been longer. It is quite large and voluminous, touching on different parts of mythology. I personally would like to see more action in Asgard - Heralds of Galactus deserve to be more deeply involved, I would like to see more of Johnny's adventures in space, how he united all the heroes and how they fought all these space villains, I would like to see more events on Earth and how kids protect the Baxter Building, and more.
    But unfortunately, for some reason, Slott was very limited and this whole event turned out to be very torn, poorly folding into a single picture, and a lot of things just happen behind the scenes or in a very strong rush. The villains are faceless, they just are, no real stakes - the heroes have already defeated everyone in space, saving Uatu was no problem, and of course the Four will escape the trap in the Barrens because it has to be. Doom's story arc looks very drawn in, like it's the final Deus ex machina.

    I don't know what to think about all this.
    I don't know what to think either. Probably a full 12 issue, separate comic line that wouldn't have necessarily been so intrinsically FF connected could have pulled it off better, but that would have been hard to pull of continuity wise.

    I was extremely disappointed to see all the Heralds story happen off page also. SS wasn't even in the 2 page spread in the last issue...at least not that I could find.

  4. #619
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenXXX View Post
    Reckoning War was the rare type of event that absolutely needed tie-ins. Or at least it should have been longer. It is quite large and voluminous, touching on different parts of mythology. I personally would like to see more action in Asgard - Heralds of Galactus deserve to be more deeply involved, I would like to see more of Johnny's adventures in space, how he united all the heroes and how they fought all these space villains, I would like to see more events on Earth and how kids protect the Baxter Building, and more.
    But unfortunately, for some reason, Slott was very limited and this whole event turned out to be very torn, poorly folding into a single picture, and a lot of things just happen behind the scenes or in a very strong rush. The villains are faceless, they just are, no real stakes - the heroes have already defeated everyone in space, saving Uatu was no problem, and of course the Four will escape the trap in the Barrens because it has to be. Doom's story arc looks very drawn in, like it's the final Deus ex machina.

    I don't know what to think about all this.
    The setup is very basic. Each of the Four gets a chance to shine and have some success. I include Doom and She-Hulk in this bunch as well. I expect the villains to have one final threat needing the collected team to thwart. It looks pretty obvious Slott over filled the number of issues he had to work with. Whether that's all his fault or whether Marvel limited issues is unknown, but the story definitely reads like a Powerpoint version of a comic story.

    As to no real stakes, I get that as well. In addition to blaming the lack of story detail (wouldn't destruction of the moon lead to major disruption of life on Earth?), I blame to preponderance of MAJOR stories being the norm for Marvel nowadays.
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  5. #620
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    https://www.facebook.com/MCUPortal/p...82433259762076

    CinemaBlend’s Managing Editor Sean O'Connell shared an official survey by a company polling Disney+ patrons regarding upcoming MCU projects. The survey used this fan-made #FantasticFour poster, with John Krasinski and Emily Blunt as Reed Richards and Sue Storm.
    The poster was created by artist Mitch Letcher!

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  6. #621
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    lol, that's Avengers Tower with the A logo swapped for a 4.

    It's a good poster, though I do think they should've applied some sort of 3D filter to the logo, as there's no way they'd use flat colours like that.
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  7. #622
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I do too but it seems we may be in the minority
    I'm quite used to it being this way, specially concearning the Fantastic Four. I tend to gravitate towards less critically acclaimed runs, runs that usually don't foccus so much on the traditional line-up. I loved the 70's Len Wein, Gerry Conway and mostly penciled by Rich Buckler run, in which Johnny had the red suit and Medusa took Sue's place. DeFalco and Ryan's 90's series, most of which Reed was thought dead and Sue led the team, with guys like Ant-Man, Namor, Kristoff and Lyja comming and going, is probably my all-time favorite run. I liked Claremont's (though have found surprisingly disappointing rereading it in trades recently) specially when the Counter Earth elements begin being brought in and Reed is "trapped" in Doom"s armour, resulting in a "different" line-up. Liked Pachecho's, with the bunch of guest-stars it had. Liked McDuffie's brief New Fantastic Four (Pelltier, one of my favorite artists, probably also had a lot to do with that). I think the most "traditional" run, that didn't change so much the team, that I really liked was Waid and Wieringo's (and, yes, I know most DR. Doom diehard fans really don't like it, and I can understand why, still, all in all, I find it a very enjoyable run). Recently, I've read some issue of Slott's run, and haven't desliked them, but they really haven't been enough to pull me in. I've enjoyed Empyre and will buy the Reckoning War trades.

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  8. #623
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    With all the talk about Secret Wars across the internet. I am reminded that I liked how that version Ben Grimm could also manipulate earth to certain degree and even incorporate it into his body. I think that would be a cool development for his powers and give him more than just punching really hard.
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  9. #624
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    https://www.facebook.com/MCUPortal/p...82433259762076

    CinemaBlend’s Managing Editor Sean O'Connell shared an official survey by a company polling Disney+ patrons regarding upcoming MCU projects. The survey used this fan-made #FantasticFour poster, with John Krasinski and Emily Blunt as Reed Richards and Sue Storm.
    The poster was created by artist Mitch Letcher!

    ohhh I never thought of Zac Efron as Johnny that is some great fancasting

  10. #625
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    I'm quite used to it being this way, specially concearning the Fantastic Four. I tend to gravitate towards less critically acclaimed runs, runs that usually don't foccus so much on the traditional line-up. I loved the 70's Len Wein, Gerry Conway and mostly penciled by Rich Buckler run, in which Johnny had the red suit and Medusa took Sue's place. DeFalco and Ryan's 90's series, most of which Reed was thought dead and Sue led the team, with guys like Ant-Man, Namor, Kristoff and Lyja comming and going, is probably my all-time favorite run. I liked Claremont's (though have found surprisingly disappointing rereading it in trades recently) specially when the Counter Earth elements begin being brought in and Reed is "trapped" in Doom"s armour, resulting in a "different" line-up. Liked Pachecho's, with the bunch of guest-stars it had. Liked McDuffie's brief New Fantastic Four (Pelltier, one of my favorite artists, probably also had a lot to do with that). I think the most "traditional" run, that didn't change so much the team, that I really liked was Waid and Wieringo's (and, yes, I know most DR. Doom diehard fans really don't like it, and I can understand why, still, all in all, I find it a very enjoyable run). Recently, I've read some issue of Slott's run, and haven't desliked them, but they really haven't been enough to pull me in. I've enjoyed Empyre and will buy the Reckoning War trades.

    Peace
    I think if you take out Unthinkable and it's follow up arc Authoritative Action, I like Waid's run a lot. When I think about the whole direction of it it's as if Waid was doing a complete destruction of the character. After Doom was dragged down to Hell at the end of Unthinkable, Reed even took over Latveria and ruled there for a while. Doom had a fairly long "time out" from comics after that and doesn't have a return until JMS's run.

    Except for the fact that Waid did start out with the " let's make Johnny an idiot", FF themselves were handled quite well. At one point he did have Sue give Johnny some responsibilty and IIRC he was like a business manager or something. I don't know if he started it but in Waid's run, the Baxter Building had a store/gift shop on the first floor like many notable buildings have in the large cities. The team had a good sense of family with out being overly sacchrine.

    McDuffie's run is another I enjoyed. As I recall he was brought it to give the "wonder kids" of Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch a head start before beginning their run. It ended up a bit longer than McDuffie expected because there was some kind of delay. AFAIK, it's good that that run is mostly forgotten. At least it doesn't get discussed much here. It wasn't so much Bryan Hitch's art as I think Millar just wasn't very good at "getting" the Fantastic Four. This is the cover that I remember ticking me off because this just shows how clueless Mark Millar (who I assume wrote the caption) is about Ben.


  11. #626
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    With all the talk about Secret Wars across the internet. I am reminded that I liked how that version Ben Grimm could also manipulate earth to certain degree and even incorporate it into his body. I think that would be a cool development for his powers and give him more than just punching really hard.
    That reminds me a little of that strange version of Ben morphed into a rock creature in Josh Trank's failure of a Fantastic Four movie in 2015. Seems like the only person that's had some good luck after that is Miles Teller. He's all over the place in films these days.

  12. #627
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    I tend to find something I like about every FF run because...well...its the FF. But I genuinely struggle to like anything about the Millar Hitch run. Stories bad. Art bad. If both of those things go south, a comic book goes south.

    I'm not certain as to why Unthinkable is a maligned story line. I thought, and still do, it was great storytelling.

    Doom's not always the benevolent, perhaps misguided, ruler. Sometimes he's just evil.

  13. #628
    Mighty Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Bryan Hitch's art is bad? Whaaat? People saying they didn't like aspects of Millar's run is one thing, but saying the art was bad is a bit of a headscratcher. He's certainly a better draughtsman than Wiernigo ever was. Which is one of the reasons I still can't take Unthinkable seriously. It's like watching a Scooby-Doo version of the Exorcist.

  14. #629
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I think if you take out Unthinkable and it's follow up arc Authoritative Action, I like Waid's run a lot. When I think about the whole direction of it it's as if Waid was doing a complete destruction of the character. After Doom was dragged down to Hell at the end of Unthinkable, Reed even took over Latveria and ruled there for a while. Doom had a fairly long "time out" from comics after that and doesn't have a return until JMS's run.

    Except for the fact that Waid did start out with the " let's make Johnny an idiot", FF themselves were handled quite well. At one point he did have Sue give Johnny some responsibilty and IIRC he was like a business manager or something. I don't know if he started it but in Waid's run, the Baxter Building had a store/gift shop on the first floor like many notable buildings have in the large cities. The team had a good sense of family with out being overly sacchrine.

    McDuffie's run is another I enjoyed. As I recall he was brought it to give the "wonder kids" of Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch a head start before beginning their run. It ended up a bit longer than McDuffie expected because there was some kind of delay. AFAIK, it's good that that run is mostly forgotten. At least it doesn't get discussed much here. It wasn't so much Bryan Hitch's art as I think Millar just wasn't very good at "getting" the Fantastic Four. This is the cover that I remember ticking me off because this just shows how clueless Mark Millar (who I assume wrote the caption) is about Ben.

    I have to say I never read a single issue of Millar's run. He's one of the writers I most despise in comics. I LIKE the sense of wonder in comics, the hopefullness. Millar writes EVERYBODY as a selfish jerk. I hate it. Plus, he has that whole writes for shock style. As long as it shocks the reader, he doesn't care if it makes sense or not. Not my cup of tea. I never saw him as a good fit for the FF (honestly, I see him as a good fit for very little). Thank god it was a very short run.

    Peace

  15. #630
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkshadow View Post
    I tend to find something I like about every FF run because...well...its the FF. But I genuinely struggle to like anything about the Millar Hitch run. Stories bad. Art bad. If both of those things go south, a comic book goes south.

    I'm not certain as to why Unthinkable is a maligned story line. I thought, and still do, it was great storytelling.

    Doom's not always the benevolent, perhaps misguided, ruler. Sometimes he's just evil.
    I can see how some readers see it that way. It was a bit up and down even in those early days. Doom's origin story in FF annual #2 is surprisingly sympathetic esp compared to some other villains of that era. As I mentoned in the Doom thread, Doom 2099 writer Warren Ellis once said in a print interview that Doom was a morally challenged political revolutionary. He took that element of Doom that occurs in the origin where he is like a freedom fighter for his people.



    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Bryan Hitch's art is bad? Whaaat? People saying they didn't like aspects of Millar's run is one thing, but saying the art was bad is a bit of a headscratcher. He's certainly a better draughtsman than Wiernigo ever was. Which is one of the reasons I still can't take Unthinkable seriously. It's like watching a Scooby-Doo version of the Exorcist.
    I agree.. I thought the art made the tone of the story so weird in that it looked like Scooby-Doo or even Disneyeque for such a dark story. The one thing that annoyed me was that Doom little terror tirade comes out of nowhere if you have read the Fantastic Four in sequence. He just had a big triumph over Reed by being able to both save Sue and her unborn child when her pregancy was in crisis again due to her exposure to cosmic rays those years ago. And he cured Johnny from being in his flaming state...sort of like what's happening with the Torch now in Slott's FF.



    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 05-30-2022 at 08:49 AM.

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