World's Greatest Comic: The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2022

[Shadowcat]

Even if he hasn't been on it, the reaction itself is just... Meh.



Huh, didn't even know JMS wrote F4, wonder what the issues were like.

It was…uneventful.

[Crimz]

I agree on Doom. He's been developed to a point where he's his own character. He doesn't fit into a good or evil category anymore. Sure, he's out for himself with Latveria a close second, but the heel turn he took here was out of retro Saturday morning professional wrestling.

As for Franklin, I disagree to a point. Leaving him power-free is obviously a bad move. Unmutanting him not good either, but not AS bad. What I liked was his emo, whining. How do teenagers deal with loss? That's an interesting story arc. Franklin is going to be godlike again. I can't imagine the characters not knowing or at least believing that. But Franklin was creating universes. And then he couldn't. Surely a traumatic event for a kid with a relatively normal mind. He deals with trauma, acts like an emo PITA teenage boy, and grows without learning to depend on his powers. As a permanent state, no, but as an arc, I think it's a fine idea.

Slott laid heavily on family and did a lot of tell not show. He's an OK writer with some fairly good stuff (like Thing, She Hulk, and Surfer). But here, he was terribly mundane and saved his best for Reckoning War. I think by that time, he may have not been able to pull it off. Frankly, there was enough stuff in that War to stretch out to issue 700. But there was very little about it that was exceptional. And that made its existence as Slott's finest FF big story all the sadder.

You mention Franklin and Doom, but his jettisoning the Future Foundation is a reason I don't think Slott was a great fit, although I do like him more than most here.

My issue with the Franklin situation was with the execution more than the concept. I could see it being an interesting character study of Franklin, but Slott wasn't the writer for that. Franklin whined for so many issues and when he finally went to therapy, it was all off-panel. The therapy session should have the coup de grace of his character arc. Where we really explored who Franklin is as a person and how he was going to move forward with the power loss. It being off-panel told me that Slott didn't know how to fully utilize his idea.

I agree with the Future Foundation and it was a big mistake that made the adopted kids seem less important compared to biological ones. It was a bad look all around and regressed the team when regression is the last thing the Fantastic Four needs. I hope the next writer brings them back.

[CaptCleghorn]

My issue with the Franklin situation was with the execution more than the concept. I could see it being an interesting character study of Franklin, but Slott wasn't the writer for that. Franklin whined for so many issues and when he finally went to therapy, it was all off-panel. The therapy session should have the coup de grace of his character arc. Where we really explored who Franklin is as a person and how he was going to move forward with the power loss. It being off-panel told me that Slott didn't know how to fully utilize his idea.

I agree with the Future Foundation and it was a big mistake that made the adopted kids seem less important compared to biological ones. It was a bad look all around and regressed the team when regression is the last thing the Fantastic Four needs. I hope the next writer brings them back.

This answer is more evidence we are very similar in our thoughts on this book. Franklin in therapy and us seeing the interactions therein would indeed be excellent. I think, though, I preferred it being skipped rather than a Slott over-simplified attempt. Dan Slott sometimes has big ideas. Many such ideas appeared in his Surfer run, but although it was pretty good, the work paled next to the elite Gaiman/Moore/Morrison writers who made their names writing the high concept stories.

Future Foundation would be a great kids book and an almost necessary return to the main book. It would be important to remember that its return wouldn't be an advance but the wiping out of of deficit. I do hope there are big plans and a talented team in place.

[Crimz]

I'm looking forward to whoever takes over and hope their goal is advancing the FF.

I also hope to see the team more in other books. The interview makes it seem Slott may have limited where and how often they show up in other books.

[Darkshadow]

He didn't want to write about the FF so he writes them out. He didn't want to write about Franklin powered up, so he writes it out. I get as an artist or author, it's harder to do a good job if you aren't passionate about what you are writing/drawing, but at what point do you realize you aren't writing or drawing for yourself - you are doing it for the fans - you know, the people who pay? He wanted the Fantastic Four so bad, but only on his conditions. Never mind the FF and Franklin's most demonstrable uses of his power came from one the most successful runs in Fantastic Four history...

[Thundershot]

Hmmm… I don’t care for him wanting to reset the status quo back to the way he liked it. Part of working in a shared universe is accepting the changes made by people who came before you. The Future Foundation was a part of the FF for years and he dissolved them because he didn’t want to deal with them. Why not just leave them out there, then? And Irredeemable Iron Man Doom.. we knew it would be temporary, but it was an interesting direction to take him. I wish he had just run with it at first and had a slow return of classic Doom rather than have Bendis change him back to the old status quo in one issue. Also Franklin has lost his powers before. He should have just made him “burn out” instead of the mutant retcon stuff we painfully went through. He’s so fond of putting the toys back in the box, I wonder if he’ll do that for Franklin.

My biggest fear though, is if some writer decides that Ben’s kids aren’t something he wants to deal with and finds a way to get rid of them. I used to be worried about Valeria, but I think she’s finally settled. Now I just hope someone doesn’t go and de-age Franklin and Valeria because “it’s how they want them to be”. Move forward… not back.

[Rift]

Now that I think about it, it's pretty weird how he brought the FF back into the picture, only to brake them up and do nothing with it. Like he could have just ignored them and let fans have that.

[Iron Maiden]

It was…uneventful.

Maybe in the first half but I disagree that the run as a whole was "uneventful". I think the first half was a bit of a problem because if you recall Scott Lobdell was writing the FF with the new relaunch after the Heroes Reborn/Heroes Return phase. Claremont was the editor. Suddenly, Scott Lobdell leaves the title. Reports vary as to why. The only news source back them was the old Wizard magazine and I can't recall reading anything there but it's not like I read it all the time. One story was that he took a job in Hollywood. It's a shame because the brief run with Alan Davis was pretty good. So Claremont stepped in to take over.

Your mileage may vary, but I think things improved when you had Valeria von Doom added and we got more Fantastic Four style plots. You had the battle with the Dreaming Celestial and then as result Reed and Doom change places. Reed becomes Doom for a while as Doom is exiled back on the Heroes Reborn planet. I also like Larocca's art style in this age, which is so different from the style he uses today.

[Iron Maiden]

Hmmm… I don’t care for him wanting to reset the status quo back to the way he liked it. Part of working in a shared universe is accepting the changes made by people who came before you. The Future Foundation was a part of the FF for years and he dissolved them because he didn’t want to deal with them. Why not just leave them out there, then? And Irredeemable Iron Man Doom.. we knew it would be temporary, but it was an interesting direction to take him. I wish he had just run with it at first and had a slow return of classic Doom rather than have Bendis change him back to the old status quo in one issue. Also Franklin has lost his powers before. He should have just made him “burn out” instead of the mutant retcon stuff we painfully went through. He’s so fond of putting the toys back in the box, I wonder if he’ll do that for Franklin.

My biggest fear though, is if some writer decides that Ben’s kids aren’t something he wants to deal with and finds a way to get rid of them. I used to be worried about Valeria, but I think she’s finally settled. Now I just hope someone doesn’t go and de-age Franklin and Valeria because “it’s how they want them to be”. Move forward… not back.

I feel pretty much the same way about Slott. I think his run was "OK" in the beginning and a Thing "win" against the Hulk was most welcome. But I feel like he completely ignores any development that happened not only in Infamous Iron Man but in Zdarsky's Marvel Two in One. Doom, Ben and Johnny had a team up for a while as they searched for the rest of the FF. Slott just takes Doom back to making death traps, etc. and no mention is made of the time Ben and Johnny spent with Doom while Reed and Sue were gone.

[Crimz]

It was a huge wasted opportunity not to have Reed, Sue, and Val react to Infamous Iron Man version of Doom. Their interactions with a Doom trying to be a better person would have been the most interesting.

[U.N. Owen]

The way Slott talks about jettisoning off the adopted children rubs me the wrong way. It would be better to refer to them as the Future Foundation rather than the adopted children. If I was younger and assumed malice, I probably would have been offended by the idea that they are somehow less than their biological children.

Which is funny because Dan would add his own set of adopted OCs.

[Thundershot]

It was a huge wasted opportunity not to have Reed, Sue, and Val react to Infamous Iron Man version of Doom. Their interactions with a Doom trying to be a better person would have been the most interesting.

God, that would have been sweet. Even more if the reason he goes back to his usual self is because of something Reed did. Alas, a wasted opportunity.

The way Slott talks about jettisoning off the adopted children rubs me the wrong way. It would be better to refer to them as the Future Foundation rather than the adopted children. If I was younger and assumed malice, I probably would have been offended by the idea that they are somehow less than their biological children.

Which is funny because Dan would add his own set of adopted OCs.

Yep. That bugs me too. Though he did do great with Ben in his run.

[ARkadelphia]

The way he talks about what he wanted for Franklin and Doom just tells me he was the wrong choice from the beginning.

Agree with you regarding Doom; disagree regarding Franklin

[Crimz]

Agree with you regarding Doom; disagree regarding Franklin

My Franklin comment is mainly because I've seen his execution of it. The premise itself is fine I admit. However, he couldn't fully capitalize on it.

[Riv86672]

Got a question; have The FF ever lived exclusively in space?

I’ve a few FF articles today and got to wondering.
One thing these articles seemed to agree on was that the team no longer felt unique.